Legal Question

OkieFlyer

OkieFlyer

En-Route
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,225
Location
Lindsay, OK
Display Name
Andrew L.
Home Airfield
1K2 Lindsay Muni.
Well, for the first time in a few years, I got stopped by the fuzz for speeding. I was doing 58 in a 45 down a county road a few miles outside of the small town of Alex Oklahoma. I was definitely speeding, and I don't dispute it. After I signed the ticket, to my surprise, he produced a second ticket. I let my drivers license expire! When he told me that, my exact reply was a subtle " Oh, damn," as he handed me the ticket. I didn't say it loud, and it was directed at myself for letting my license expire, not at the cop. Immediately, the young policeman bowed up raised his voice and said "Sir, because you've been so nice, and haven't cussed at me or gotten upset, I'm not going to haul you to jail. We can do this the easy way or the hard way."
So as I was signing the ticket, he told me I had been very nice, but still chose to make sure I knew he could take me to jail. It seemed kind of weird to me, but I digress and chock it up to this kid being a new small town cop of maybe 19 years of age. In other words, on a power trip. Wouldn't be the first one I've met. I just quietly chuckled.

Anywho, current Oklahoma law states that driving with an expired liscense is punishable by a fine of not less than $50 and not more than $300 and/or imprisonment for up to 30 days.

Starting 1/1/16 there is a statute that goes in place that adds to the existing law that states the following: Any person charged with violating this section who produces in court, on or before the court date, a renewal or replacement driver license issued to him or her shall be entitled to dismissal of such charge without payment of court costs and fine.

So my question is: Would it be appropriate/acceptable to ask the judge for dismissal, since the law is going to change in a few months? (provided I produce a valid license, of course). I realize the current law is the current law, but having not had any moving violations in years, and being an all 'round nice feller, I wonder if it would be worth a shot.

What say you?

Something like this used to just get you a verbal warning if it was just a month or two out of date and you just forgot to renew :dunno: Shucks.
 
You don't get if you don't ask.

But really, how do you forget to renew your license?
 
You can ask, and you'll likely get it when you show your license has been renewed.
 
EdFred said:
You don't get if you don't ask.
Click to expand...

I reckon you're right. I've never been before a judge, so I didn't know what's appropriate. Thanks.


But really, how do you forget to renew your license?
Click to expand...
Well, It's an item that just rarely gets used. I only have to think about renewing once every four years, so I suppose it just slipped my mind that this is the year. How do you remember?
 
Last edited:
OkieFlyer said:
I reckon you're right. I've never been before a judge, so I didn't know what's appropriate. Thanks.


Well, It's an item that just rarely gets used. I only have to think about renewing once every four years, so I suppose it just slipped my mind that this is the year. How do you remember?
Click to expand...
Here they send you a reminder.
 
I need to check. Mine is good for six years.
...

OK, I'm good for another year and a half.
 
While you're there, you might ask the judge for some rythm on the speeding ticket. Around here, if you have a clean record you'll at minimum get the fine but no points.
 
EdFred said:
You don't get if you don't ask.

But really, how do you forget to renew your license?
Click to expand...

You get busy with other things and then just don't do it. NC sends out reminders 6 months early, so it was the "Oh, I can do this later" thing going on.

My license expired in March of this year. I was using it for 6 weeks before someone caught it. I'd been through TSA security for weeks with it, handed it off to rental car people, used it for ID at the hotel. You know who caught it? A bartender. Fortunately I also had my passport.

I got a co-worker to drive my rental for the rest of the week and had my wife drive me home from the airport Thurs night and to the DMV on Friday morning.
 
I get my renewal, it gets pinned to the fridge along with my registration. Of course the only thing that ever gets pinned to my fridge is that, tax bill, insurance bills. Everything else is paid online.

It (the d/l expiration - along with registration expiration) is also due on my birthday, so kinda hard to forget that.
 
Won't harm to ask. Also see if you can ask for defective spedometer plea for the speeding ticket. Might be more of a fine, but some states it won't show on your driving record and you won't get any points and it won't show up on your insurance.
 
I can easily see this becoming an issue for me in about 2.5 years, unless I do something about it. It used to be I could easily remember the year I needed to renew because it always fell in a presidential election year (MI DL renewal is every 4 years). Then last year I applied for a passport, but needed to cross Canada when I moved from MI to VT and couldn't be sure my passport would come in time for the actual move, so I applied for a MI Enhanced DL. That reset the clock on my renewal so now my license is good until 2018. But I no longer need the EDL as I have my passport (and it came in time, as it turned out).

I will probably claim residency in VT next year and go for a VT DL. Assuming VT is also 4 years, that will bring my renewals back on track. :)
 
I got shaken down by the cops in Texas for a ticket (failure to follow a traffic control officer's direction.) He pointed me to go one way, I went that way, then he stopped and wrote me up a ticket and said he didn't want me to go that way.

They really, really hate GI's.

Anyway, the cop was a total dick and oh by the way my license expired too. Actually it had expired while I was overseas and I had not had an opportunity to renew it so I got a ticket for that too.

As much of a ******** as the cop was, the judge was actually pretty nice. I still had to eat the traffic ticket, but he did recognize that California automatically grants six month extensions for out of state military without me even having to bring it up, so that went away.
 
In my previous State, the DL expires a certain number of years from the date you get it. In my current State, the DL expires a certain number of years (6) from the closest birthday from when you get it. As long as I double-check before each birthday, I can make sure not to forget.

There's an interesting side effect to this "expire on your birthday" thing in my State: Until you turn 21, the DL will be printed in portrait mode, and I think it has "Minor" printed on it. This particular DL doesn't really have an expiration time, it has a specific expiration date: your 21st birthday. So - college kids away from home have fun with this all the time. They can't get it renewed early, because regardless, it will expire when they turn 21, and they can't get home from school the day of their birthday to get it renewed. So KS does allow you to extend your driving privileges for a certain number of months after that license expires, and it is still supposed to be legal for identification purposes even if the driving privileges have expired. For kids going to college out of State, it's sometimes tough to explain to the bartender or liquor store on your birthday.
 
Definitely ask for the dismissal of the DL ticket (assuming you get it renewed promptly) and cite the law changing. Also ask for deferred adjudication on the speeding ticket. May have to pay some costs, but if you don't get another ticket in the prescribed time, it will dismiss as well.
 
In Michigan if you get an expired driver's license ticket, they tack on a drivers responsibility fee. An extra $200-$250 for the next 2 years. $400-$500. plus whatever the fine is. Didn't happen to me, but a co-worker moved out of state over the ordeal. He put up a stink over it, ended up getting his driver's license suspended, thrown in jail.
 
EdFred said:
But really, how do you forget to renew your license?
Click to expand...

We used to get reminders. I don't think so anymore. I can tell you that I wasn't aware that mine expired in April until I was cashing a check and the teller asked to see my license, then wouldn't cash the check because my license had expired. I quizzed her why she asked for my license and she responded exactly how I knew she would, because the bank requires it. So I asked why the bank required it and sure enough it's to prove that I'm the person whose name is on the check. She remained unswayed by my logic and wouldn't cash it until I had a valid license the next day. Good for another 6 years.

I'm just glad I didn't have to re-take the written and driving tests.
 
Mine expired once, never got anything in the mail.

Also if you move or travel much it's easy to let it expire, after all it's just a drivers licenses which are a dime a dozen, especially with how they give them away to illegals and all.

I go a reminder set up in my synced calendar nowadays.
 
The fuzz...???? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hey man, open up... its Dave....

Daves not here man....
 
Yeah, we don't get reminders here. I usually get reminded when I go buy a gun or something that requires a DL. I honestly don't pull the thing out more than a few times a year.

FYI, In OK, if the speeding ticket was for 10 MPH over the limit or less, it doesn't go on your record, so I'm good on that. I don't think I'd feel right claiming a defective speedo. I was speeding, so I'll eat that one.

On another note, I talked to probably 20 different people about the traffic stop, both at work and at the tag agency when I got my license renewed today, and nobody has even heard of anybody actually getting a citation for an expired license, and certainly never threatened with imprisonment. That's just one of those things that doesn't really get enforced as long as you haven't had it revoked or are some kind of criminal.

P.S. is "the fuzz" not a common colloquialism anymore? I use it regularly. :D
 
Last edited:
OkieFlyer said:
Immediately, the young policeman bowed up raised his voice and said "Sir, because you've been so nice, and haven't cussed at me or gotten upset, I'm not going to haul you to jail. We can do this the easy way or the hard way."
So as I was signing the ticket, he told me I had been very nice, but still chose to make sure I knew he could take me to jail. It seemed kind of weird to me, but I digress and chock it up to this kid being a new small town cop of maybe 19 years of age. In other words, on a power trip. Wouldn't be the first one I've met. I just quietly chuckled.
Click to expand...

SOP for most these days, not just the young uppity ones. They're big on making sure you know who's in charge... for whatever stupid reason.

Seems maybe appropriate for someone getting in their face, but as a normal means of communicating with other adults, it tends to make me wonder if they think they're still in high school.

OkieFlyer said:
Starting 1/1/16 there is a statute that goes in place that adds to the existing law that states the following: Any person charged with violating this section who produces in court, on or before the court date, a renewal or replacement driver license issued to him or her shall be entitled to dismissal of such charge without payment of court costs and fine.

So my question is: Would it be appropriate/acceptable to ask the judge for dismissal, since the law is going to change in a few months? (provided I produce a valid license, of course). I realize the current law is the current law, but having not had any moving violations in years, and being an all 'round nice feller, I wonder if it would be worth a shot.

What say you?
Click to expand...

Yes. Ask. You'll immediately know if you need to vote out the judge at the next election. You'll also know if the Judge is an ass-hat, but that's secondary to the job of voting him or her away. LOL!
 
denverpilot said:
SOP for most these days, not just the young uppity ones. They're big on making sure you know who's in charge... for whatever stupid reason.

Seems maybe appropriate for someone getting in their face, but as a normal means of communicating with other adults, it tends to make me wonder if they think they're still in high school.



Yes. Ask. You'll immediately know if you need to vote out the judge at the next election. You'll also know if the Judge is an ass-hat, but that's secondary to the job of voting him or her away. LOL!
Click to expand...


I would tend to disagree. In the majority of my run-ins with the fuzz, they were very professional. One even thanked me for stopping, which I found hilarious. Of all the interactions I've had, I can count on 1 hand the number of times they were being douchecanoes.

But yes, those that feel the need to make it obvious that they are better human beings than you are and that you should respect their auth-or-it-tay seem to have deep-seeded interpersonal issues that no amount of therapy could unravel. May they live for eternity with ingrown hairs and hang nails...:yes:
 
vkhosid said:
I would tend to disagree. In the majority of my run-ins with the fuzz, they were very professional. One even thanked me for stopping, which I found hilarious. Of all the interactions I've had, I can count on 1 hand the number of times they were being douchecanoes.

But yes, those that feel the need to make it obvious that they are better human beings than you are and that you should respect their auth-or-it-tay seem to have deep-seeded interpersonal issues that no amount of therapy could unravel. May they live for eternity with ingrown hairs and hang nails...:yes:
Click to expand...

I'm just saying I'm seeing an uptick in the behavior of stating that they're "doing you a favor" by not "taking you to jail", etc...

In this case, it's not like someone who just said "Oh damn!" under their breath when they found out their license was expired is a hardened anti-car-licencing criminal or something... LOL... all a ticket does is provide extra revenue. He was going to renew anyway. Threatening jail is silliness. Hand him the ticket and move on.

Of course, the law change there (we already have that law here) covers the mistake... just go get the thing renewed and no harm, no foul.

Plus, it's not like a license actually MEANS you know how to drive in this country, or have had any real training... but we don't have to get started on that pet peeve of mine...
 
denverpilot said:
I'm just saying I'm seeing an uptick in the behavior of stating that they're "doing you a favor" by not "taking you to jail", etc...

In this case, it's not like someone who just said "Oh damn!" under their breath when they found out their license was expired is a hardened anti-car-licencing criminal or something... LOL... all a ticket does is provide extra revenue. He was going to renew anyway. Threatening jail is silliness. Hand him the ticket and move on.

Of course, the law change there (we already have that law here) covers the mistake... just go get the thing renewed and no harm, no foul.

Plus, it's not like a license actually MEANS you know how to drive in this country, or have had any real training... but we don't have to get started on that pet peeve of mine...
Click to expand...


I understand, but I'm simply stating that this hasn't been my experience. Though the 3 that did give me an attitude were real pieces of work. One couldn't admit that he made a mistake, the second made me wait 45 minutes until he gave 4 other cars a ticket before me, and the third gave me a ticket for 4mph over, and proceeded to give me a lecture about how I was a danger to anyone on the road because I was riding my motorcycle with complete disregard for public safety.

Though, I will say that in one of the three instances above (the 4 mph over the limit, which resulted in roughly a $450 fine) spurred me to go to traffic court to ask for a reduction in fee. Let me tell you, that 5 hours in traffic court were 5 hours well spent. The pure comedic gold that comes from some of these people is just mind boggling.

Dude in traffic court asks the bailiff: Hey, what do we tell the judge to have him dismiss our ticket?
 
OkieFlyer said:
Anywho, current Oklahoma law states that driving with an expired liscense is punishable by a fine of not less than $50 and not more than $300 and/or imprisonment for up to 30 days.

Starting 1/1/16 there is a statute that goes in place that adds to the existing law that states the following: Any person charged with violating this section who produces in court, on or before the court date, a renewal or replacement driver license issued to him or her shall be entitled to dismissal of such charge without payment of court costs and fine.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about this? Do you have a citation to the statute?

From what I can tell, that part of the statute was already enacted. There is a separate amendment taking effect on January 1, 2016, but for now this is what the statute says, as of today:

A. No person shall operate a motor vehicle upon the public roads, streets, highways, turnpikes or other public place of this state without having a valid driver license for the class of vehicle being operated from the Department of Public Safety, except as herein specifically exempted.

Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a misdemeanor and shall be punishable by a fine of not less than Fifty Dollars ($50.00) nor more than Three Hundred Dollars ($300.00) plus costs or by imprisonment for not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Any person charged with violating this section who produces in court, on or before the court date, a renewal or replacement driver license issued to him or her shall be entitled to dismissal of such charge without payment of court costs and fine.

47 OK Stat Section 47-6-303
 
Last edited:
Sac Arrow said:
As much of a ******** as the cop was, the judge was actually pretty nice. I still had to eat the traffic ticket, but he did recognize that California automatically grants six month extensions for out of state military without me even having to bring it up, so that went away.
Click to expand...

The one judge I have seen in action here really impressed me with her knowledge of the law, and her commitment to applying it scrupulously. Plus, she is really easy on the eyes! :)
 
JCranford said:
Last I checked 58 - 45 = 13, which is not under 10...
Click to expand...

Your math looks solid to me. However, I did forget to mention that he wrote the ticket for 55 mph, which is pretty common practice and is appreciated. He wasn't a 100% ass clown.

frcabot said:
Are you sure about this? Do you have a citation to the statute?

From what I can tell, that part of the statute was already enacted. There is a separate amendment taking effect on January 1, 2016, but for now this is what the statute says, as of today:

A. No person shall operate a motor vehicle upon the public roads, streets, highways, turnpikes or other public place of this state without having a valid driver license for the class of vehicle being operated from the Department of Public Safety, except as herein specifically exempted.

Any violation of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a misdemeanor and shall be punishable by a fine of not less than Fifty Dollars ($50.00) nor more than Three Hundred Dollars ($300.00) plus costs or by imprisonment for not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Any person charged with violating this section who produces in court, on or before the court date, a renewal or replacement driver license issued to him or her shall be entitled to dismissal of such charge without payment of court costs and fine.

47 OK Stat Section 47-6-303
Click to expand...

From what I've read, the part not in bold is the current statute 47-6-303. The part in bold is included in 47-6-303 (A2) that takes effect next year. Now I can't find the site where I saw that, but I'll keep looking. I hope that statute is the current one.

FYI, I got the license renewed yesterday.
 
Last edited:
OkieFlyer said:
Your math looks solid to me. However, I did forget to mention that he wrote the ticket for 55 mph, which is pretty common practice and is appreciated. He wasn't a 100% ass clown.



From what I've read, the part not in bold is the current statute 47-6-303. The part in bold is included in 47-6-303 (A2) that takes effect next year. Now I can't find the site where I saw that, but I'll keep looking. I hope that statute is the current one.

FYI, I got the license renewed yesterday.
Click to expand...

If the bold is not in effect, you'll get a dismissal with court costs.
 
OkieFlyer said:
Your math looks solid to me. However, I did forget to mention that he wrote the ticket for 55 mph, which is pretty common practice and is appreciated. He wasn't a 100% ass clown.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, well, that's was pretty nice of him. Except for the stupid comment about arresting you, I'd say he did ok by you.
 
OkieFlyer said:
Your math looks solid to me. However, I did forget to mention that he wrote the ticket for 55 mph...
Click to expand...

In this particular situation, I'd be careful in taking this matter to court. Assuming you want to argue something. I've seen scenarios unfold in which the cop wrote a ticket, but tried to help a homie out by writing it under various vehicle codes to make the fine a bit more palatable. However, after taking it to court, the cop would get ****ed off that the guy didn't leave good enough alone, so he would then amend the citation for the "proper" violation, thereby increasing the cost of the ticket.

It is just common practice to take most citations to court (at least in california) because although on the bail schedule, the "ticket" may only be $200, but after adding all the miscellaneous court fees and such, it can EASILY double. Which is why my ticket for 4 or so mph over the limit ended up being close to $500
 
How do I go about getting one of these illegal-immigrant driver licences? As a legal immigrant they're currently refusing to issue me a licence while they perform "enhanced checks" on my documents; immigration documents that they charged me more than $3,000 to issue in the first place, part of which was labelled as "fraud prevention".
 
JCranford said:
Ahhh, well, that's was pretty nice of him. Except for the stupid comment about arresting you, I'd say he did ok by you.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I said, I'm not worried about the speeding ticket. I was speeding, and I wouldn't contest it even if he left it as 13 over. I think I've had 3 speeding tickets since I got my license, and all of them have been rounded down, so to speak. Most cops in these parts are pretty good about keeping stuff off your record when possible. The only gripe I might have is that this particular little town has increased their jurisdiction well outside of the actual town. We were basically out in the boonies and there's no city limit sign posted. I've run those roads my whole life, and didn't have a clue their jurisdiction was that far out. But that's something I can't do a thing about, it's just unusual, and not worth getting bent out of shape over. He didn't do a terrible job, but just did the ol' power trip thing that is so common in young cops. As I said, I just chuckled a bit at his show of power. Hopefully, his stiffy will begin to soften as time goes on, and he can turn out to be a respectable policeman one day.
 
Sounds like the young guy got told to go patrol out in the boonies, similar to the guy I got recently in that "maybe marked properly" work zone. He mostly just seemed bored and surprised anyone treated him politely after giving out tickets all day on a chunk of county road that nobody cares about except once a decade when there's a road crew doing something on it. Even if they'd already packed up and went home for the day. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top