Layman Piloting a 757 ?

N

Nipsy Hussl

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
2
Display Name
Display name:
Nipsy Hussl
I would like to pose what I consider a preposterous question but still, would rather have a professional answer.

An acquaintance believes, as a layman, he could step into the cockpit and fly a 757 if it was already in flight. I wont even go so far as to offer what he thinks he could do with it but my question, to the professionals, is how long in your opinion would he have before he lost control of the plane if he immediately assumed controls from a disabled pilot?
 
Assuming there was nothing wrong with the airplane, he probably wouldn't lose control at all. He'd probably need to be talked down by someone on the ground, would need a longer-than-usual runway to put it down, might land it kind of hard, and might roll it into the grass. There's a lot of extra buttons and switches, but it's still an airplane.

I'm not an airline pilot, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
bqmassey said:
Assuming there was nothing wrong with the airplane, he probably wouldn't lose control at all. He'd probably need to be talked down by someone on the ground, would need a longer-than-usual runway to put it down, might land it kind of hard, and might roll it into the grass. There's a lot of extra buttons and switches, but it's still an airplane.
Click to expand...

Or he might bounce off a seawall and do a pirouette.
 
My guess is that he'd be vectored to the biggest, widest, easiest runway he could get to without having to fly in the clouds.
 
The airplane would be on auto pilot, someone would have to tell him what buttons to push.
 
Appreciate the responses but the question should have been phrased with no help at all. The acquaintance is suggesting he could fly the plane by just assuming control. There is no auto pilot.

My guess is he could just sit there and hold the controls but eventually circumstances would require him to do something. Even negotiating a slight turn or change in altitude requires some significant degree of skill no ?
 
I have a friend who flys with me all the time. He believed if anything happened to me ,he could land my twin Travelair. Gave him the yoke,he couldn't even make some gentle turns with both motors running.
 
Nipsy Hussl said:
Appreciate the responses but the question should have been phrased with no help at all. The acquaintance is suggesting he could fly the plane by just assuming control. There is no auto pilot.

My guess is he could just sit there and hold the controls but eventually circumstances would require him to do something. Even negotiating a slight turn or change in altitude requires some significant degree of skill no ?
Click to expand...

He'd probably be fine. Any monkey can hold a yoke and point the plan in the right direction.

Landing might be a different question. Buy flying? He could do it.
 
Nipsy Hussl said:
Appreciate the responses but the question should have been phrased with no help at all. The acquaintance is suggesting he could fly the plane by just assuming control. There is no auto pilot.

My guess is he could just sit there and hold the controls but eventually circumstances would require him to do something. Even negotiating a slight turn or change in altitude requires some significant degree of skill no ?
Click to expand...

Assuming he can see the horizon, anyone can fly a plane. But to quote Indiana Jones, "Fly, yes. Land, no."

With no autopilot, any able bodied person should be able assume control of an aircraft and keep it mostly straight and mostly level. Altitude will go up or down because most people aren't going to know which instruments to reference to fly it to keep it at 31,000ft. Now, when it comes time to land the plane and he has to reconfigure, and establish speeds, and glide paths, and everything that goes with that, it's probably going to end up a big fireball.

But as far as keeping it airborne maybe fly a few circles, or if he figures out how to know what heading he's going, yeah, no problem. Everyone I've let fly my plane has had zero issue keeping it pointed at a landmark, or making turns. Most even did well at holding altitude.
 
Last edited:
Well, there are a couple of aspects to this. If the term "layman" means someone with absolutely no prior aviation background, then the chances of him getting the aircraft on the ground without killing someone is pretty slim. If the individual was a pilot of some sort, he may get the airplane on the ground and have survivors, but chances are the airplane would sustain some damage. The more experience the pilot has, especially in heavier equipment, the better the chances of survivors.

But bottom line, it would be VERY difficult for someone with no experience at all to get the airplane on the ground in one piece without help from the ground.

Mythbusters did an episode on this very subject not too long ago, but I don't know how to find it.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Mythbusters did an episode on this very subject not too long ago, but I don't know how to find it.
Click to expand...

That was pretty funny. Both of them failed miserably when it was "here you go, fly it" and both are pretty mechanically inclined. Getting talked down, they fared much better.

Hell, I wouldn't bother trying to land big iron on my own, and I'm the world's second greatest pilot behind Jesse.
 
When I was in the Navy I bet a guy I could land a 172 having never flown before. We rented the plane, he did 5 T&Gs to get me use to the site picture, and I still declined and admitted defeat. :redface:

If I had to land it I'm sure I could have, but there might have been pieces of the plane left on the runway. :lol:
 
Here's a link to the mythbusters episode, which you can watch for free if you have Amazon Prime: http://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Hour/dp/B001PNXFSU

Spoiler alert: They were both able to land the plane when talked down via ATC (all in a simulator, of course).

Note, that this was flying by hand - not using auto-land.
 
My son and I flew a 777 sim a couple years ago, he was 16, with about 30 hours of instruction, he did fine taking off and landing. Of course we had a retired captain as our sim instructor and he talked him through it.:D
I don't think my other son, with no aviation background could have done as well.:rolleyes:
A layman, VFR pilot, could be talked through it, a guy off the street, not so much. It might not be a pretty landing, but it would likely be survivable with a PP at gone controls.
 
EdFred said:
That was pretty funny. Both of them failed miserably when it was "here you go, fly it" and both are pretty mechanically inclined. Getting talked down, they fared much better.

Hell, I wouldn't bother trying to land big iron on my own, and I'm the world's second greatest pilot behind Jesse.
Click to expand...

The Mythbuster episode came to the conclusion that somebody not trained with no help would crash. An untrained person with an experienced coach on the other end of the coms would stand a good chance of getting the plane down. The final bit though was that many commercial jets can land under autopilot and really do not need a person at the yolk. Therefor, it was a moot point since anyone can hit the autopilot button.
 
I was a mere Navigator in the Air Force, but I had several of my fighter pilot friends go to airline interviews which included simulator checks.

Every one of them came back humbled. Landing a lumbering airliner with engines on the wings dangling inches from the ground is a lot different and more difficult than landing a nimble fighter.

My pilot friends all advised bribing the KC-135 guys at the neighboring base to let them get some 707 sim time before their next interview

No auto pilot will automatically configure an airliner into a correct landing configuration.

I suspect that our layperson will lose control during the transition from level flight in clean configuration to landing attitude in 'dirty' mode.

.
 
Last edited:
If he could program a cat1 approach? maybe, if the stars aligned. But they don't exactly have an STEC and 430W onboard...

Hand flying? My money would be on him coming in fast, spooling down the turbines too much, and then hitting the ground hard after overshooting whatever runway they give him.

Someone knowing what they are doing, talking to him over the radio? Then I think he would probably have a decent chance of not killing everybody..
 
Before I got back into flying I had nothing but FSX and X-plane to keep my head in the game. One of my favorite sims was the_ Level-D Simulations 767.
http://www.leveldsim.com/sevensix_home.asp

I think I could probably pull it off with minimum damage and without killing anyone:lol:.

I know a PC sim can't compare to the real thing, so please spare me the lectures.:rolleyes:
 
drotto said:
Therefor, it was a moot point since anyone can hit the autopilot button.
Click to expand...

Well, it isn't QUITE that simple. The computer has to be programmed and that is kind of hard to do from a distance. And it isn't just the autopilot button. There are a few other buttons to push. But it is pretty easy to talk someone through that.
 
With Autopilot, vector the plane to the neareast Cat IIIc approach, set auto-land. Instruct on how to activate thrust reversers.
 
JeffDG said:
With Autopilot, vector the plane to the neareast Cat IIIc approach, set auto-land. Instruct on how to activate thrust reversers.
Click to expand...

Set autoland isn't as easy as that statement makes it sound.

Rather than instruct on Thrust reversers, instruct on how to set autobrakes. That is easier.

Also, SOME airplanes won't track centerline when on the ground. 737 comes to mind.
 
One of the belvoir rags (probably IFR) grabbed a handful of pilots ranging from an experienced IFR pilot (but only SE rated) to a student pilot and dropped them into a 737 simulator with various degrees of success.
 
Nipsy Hussl said:
I would like to pose what I consider a preposterous question but still, would rather have a professional answer.

An acquaintance believes, as a layman, he could step into the cockpit and fly a 757 if it was already in flight. I wont even go so far as to offer what he thinks he could do with it but my question, to the professionals, is how long in your opinion would he have before he lost control of the plane if he immediately assumed controls from a disabled pilot?
Click to expand...

Are you a troll from the NSA,CIA,FBI...:dunno:.....:rolleyes:
 
drotto said:
. Therefor, it was a moot point since anyone can hit the autopilot button.
Click to expand...

Uh huh.........:rolleyes2:

So tell us, how would someone totally unfamiliar with the airplane would "hit the autopilot button" and land the airplane? Think there might be a few other things he may need to do? :rolleyes:
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Set autoland isn't as easy as that statement makes it sound.

Rather than instruct on Thrust reversers, instruct on how to set autobrakes. That is easier.

Also, SOME airplanes won't track centerline when on the ground. 737 comes to mind.
Click to expand...

You mean there isn't a button marked "automatic landing" you simply push and the plane does the rest?????

:rofl:
 
RotorAndWing said:
You mean there isn't a button marked "automatic landing" you simply push and the plane does the rest?????

:rofl:
Click to expand...

There isn't?, and it doesn't look like this?

images
 
RotorAndWing said:
Uh huh.........:rolleyes2:

So tell us, how would someone totally unfamiliar with the airplane would "hit the autopilot button" and land the airplane? Think there might be a few other things he may need to do? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

:yes:

If anything, that 767 sim I mentioned gave me a small glimpse into how much there is to know about a modern airliner! That's why I said, I "think" I might be able to pull it off. But I'd be on the radio seeking all the help I could get from you guys:yesnod:

By the way, isn't that- at least two of the three autopilots engaged for autoland ?
 
Last edited:
RotorAndWing said:
Uh huh.........:rolleyes2:

So tell us, how would someone totally unfamiliar with the airplane would "hit the autopilot button" and land the airplane? Think there might be a few other things he may need to do? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Even the pathetic little STEC autopilots in the airplanes I fly have, (let me see... ) have five buttons, six if you count the heading bug. The STEC also has five different modes of operation. Six if you count 'disconnect' as a mode.

I wonder how many buttons you have to push on an airliner to get it to fly the airport, descend to the correct altitude, line up with the runway, slow to gear speed, lower the gear and flaps, and set the correct pitch and power settings for your final approach?

All without causing an automatic autopilot disconnect.
 
Nipsy Hussl said:
I would like to pose what I consider a preposterous question but still, would rather have a professional answer.

An acquaintance believes, as a layman, he could step into the cockpit and fly a 757 if it was already in flight. I wont even go so far as to offer what he thinks he could do with it but my question, to the professionals, is how long in your opinion would he have before he lost control of the plane if he immediately assumed controls from a disabled pilot?
Click to expand...

I suspect it would depend on how the FMS was programmed. If it didn't have the approach programmed in to the runway, I wouldn't bet on him making it on with no flying skills. That's a large amount of kinetic energy, without all the automation including braking, I'd think many people will die.

With some piloting skill and a working radio, you have a chance with someone telling you how to do things best without the FMS, or potentially walk you through that. If you can get the numbers to fly by, you should be able to get it on.

I don't think there are many who could make their first landing unassisted in one and be ok.
 
JimNtexas said:
I was a mere Navigator in the Air Force, but I had several of my fighter pilot friends go to airline interviews which included simulator checks.



Every one of them came back humbled. Landing a lumbering airliner with engines on the wings dangling inches from the ground is a lot different and more difficult than landing a nimble fighter.



My pilot friends all advised bribing the KC-135 guys at the neighboring base to let them get some 707 sim time before their next interview



No auto pilot will automatically configure an airliner into a correct landing configuration.



I suspect that our layperson will lose control during the transition from level flight in clean configuration to landing attitude in 'dirty' mode.



.
Click to expand...


Heh. I dragged the number 1 nacelle on the ground in the 747-400 sim in a crosswind. :)

Having played this game in a real sim, they still fly like an airplane but there's gotchas like that a typical private pilot wouldn't think of until the crunching sound.

The other biggie is behind the power curve power management with a turbine that has a spool up time. That leads to your point of dirtying up the airplane...
 
Straight and level, climbs and descents, turns, sure. Landing is a different story. I've been in a NWA DC-9 sim when I was just starting out with my PPL training, but basically had no knowledge and it was extremely tough to land
 
We've forgotten about Asian with 3 experienced pilots on board, haven't we.:)
Want to rethink someone with no experience?

Denis
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top