Late-30's commercial pilot. Fixed wing or rotor?

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
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So, in my late-30s. Would love to get my commercial ticket. At my age, I'm probably not a good candidate for an airline gig but there's plenty of fish in the sea when it comes to flying.

So with that in mind, are there more opportunities out there for helicopter pilots out there than fixed wing? Seems like if you aren't up to ATP levels in terms of hours, you're limited in what you can do in a fixed wing aircraft but there are more jobs as a helicopter pilot for mid-time guys.

Thoughts?
 
I know a civilian-trained commercial helicopter (and fixed-wing) pilot in the area. He flies airplanes, not helicopters, for $$. My perception is that the commercial helicopter market is dominated by former military.
 
Fixed wing for sure.
If you can get a helo job with a wet commercial and a couple hundred hours, don't tell anyone where, cause they'll steal it.

Fixed wing you can do sky dive, banners etc with ~500 tt pretty easy.
 
On another thread (maybe it was on the red board) a pilot got hired on by a regional at 62...just barely meeting ATP hour requirements for his first (and likely only) airline job!

Rotorwing jobs aren't impossible, but like others mentioned you're competing against former military folks, who often have veteran preferences for civilian government jobs.

If you're in your late 30s you still have 25 years of 121 flying left, plus 91 and 135 corporate after you age out at 65.
 
Depends, what type of flying do you want to do?

Also at 30 I don't think the airlines are out of reach for you.
 
Late thirties is no big deal, you have over 25 years of airline flying left. And plenty of 135 and 91 opps too, and you can always go 91 or 135 post airline experience. They are hiring...


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Plenty of time left in the airlines to go that route at your age.

Fixed wing and rotorcraft are very different lifestyles. Rotorcraft you get higher pay faster, but top out at a lower pay. You also typically end up touring and are gone 2 weeks up to 6 months at a time, depending on where and what you're flying. You do have EMS and other local jobs, but most helicopter jobs are oil rigs and things like that. The longer tours are typically for people working in rotten parts of the world. Fixed wing you might commute to a hub city, but depending on where you live that can be predictable and not necessarily too bad. You're gone several nights at a time, but how much that is depends on the airline and where you are in the rankings.
 
There's jobs in both markets. A buddy of mine went the rotorcraft route to fly medevac. Went through a program in Sevierville, TN and then flew tours for a little while to build time for his ATP. He's now at Airevac Lifeteam.

Both FW and RC can be accomplished but it all depends on what you've got your heart set on.
 
I started flying in my late 30s. Got the ATP at 43. It is no too late.
 
bradg33 said:
I know a civilian-trained commercial helicopter (and fixed-wing) pilot in the area. He flies airplanes, not helicopters, for $$. My perception is that the commercial helicopter market is dominated by former military.
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I've always had that perception too, until I talked with a rotor wing guy passing through the FBO, building time. Basically, he said that there are helicopter operators who will only hire people with past military experience and there are helicopter operators who will hire anybody but prior military guys. It took me by surprise, since I have never pursued a helicopter rating due to the assumption that I'd never find a job due to no military experience.

I still think fixed wing is a better choice with more opportunity right now, and the airlines are hiring pretty much anyone with a pulse and 1500 hours assuming they'll get at least a year or two of service out of you. Even if the airlines aren't the path a person wants to take there will be some part 91 and 135 jobs that need to be filled as well.
 
I'd rather fly FW for sure. Looking to massage a connection or two to land in the right seat for a Part 135 gig but I'm a few hours away from that yet. If I read it correctly, I'll need at least 500 hours and a type rating where applicable for SIC Part 135.

My company has a Part 91 flight op but they only look at ATP-level pilots. I try to hang around the pilots tho in the name of networking...
 
labbadabba said:
I'd rather fly FW for sure. Looking to massage a connection or two to land in the right seat for a Part 135 gig but I'm a few hours away from that yet. If I read it correctly, I'll need at least 500 hours and a type rating where applicable for SIC Part 135.

My company has a Part 91 flight op but they only look at ATP-level pilots. I try to hang around the pilots tho in the name of networking...
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Type rating isn't required for SIC (unless going international), but if you have one you can log PIC time when appropriate. To act as SIC on domestic flights, all you need is the familiarization training of 61.55/
 
labbadabba said:
I'd rather fly FW for sure.
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That answers that



You OK with moving around for a while? Things are a lot eased if you can move around while you build your time up
 
James331 said:
That answers that
You OK with moving around for a while? Things are a lot eased if you can move around while you build your time up
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Wife and kids. Wife is almost wrapped up with her (2nd) master's degree and I expect she'll be on the job market very soon so moving in the next 12-18 months wouldn't be too much of an issue. Moving around a LOT however may be problematic. I still have to get my CPL but I'm trying to figure out where I should devote my re$ource$.
 
I think both segments are strong right now. It's up to you on what type of flying you want to do.

So, if you were to go RW, a normal progression would be COM / INST and start instructing around 300 hrs. To get that experience, I'd say you're looking at 80K out of pocket, unless you're a GI Bill guy. You'll make crap pay (30-40K) instructing. Once you get around 500 hrs, you'll go the tour route. Most likely piston since the turbine spots are hard to get. Tours could be feast or famine (seasonal). Pay (40-50K) isn't good either. After that, you're looking at most likely SE in the Gulf of Mexico (GoM) or air ambulance (EMS). Both require around 1,500 -2,000 hrs. EMS will want heavy NVG time which most likely you won't have yet. Pay will be around 60-80K. After that and if you want, you can move into a FO position in a ME IFR GoM ship like a S-76 or even a single pilot IFR EMS H-135. Looking at around 2,000-3,000 hrs min. Base pay will be around 80K and upwards to 130K once you make captain. Many bonuses, stipends, overtime, travel and holiday pay with both GoM and EMS so add about 25-30 % to those numbers. I can tell you both are prior Military dominated especially EMS due to the NVG requirement.

There are a bunch of jobs in the RW utility and fire sectors but most require some sort of longline, spraying or fire experience. Getting into those programs is tough and it's usually due to networking. Pay is all over the place for those jobs due to the various SE (MD500) and ME (S-70) spots. Very seasonal as well.

There are high paying overseas contract jobs in either Military aircraft or civilian aircraft operated by governments that require foreign pilots. These will definitely be dominated by former military. You're looking at 6 months gone making anywhere from 150-250K per year. A lot of that is tax free.

Can't give any insight to the FW path but that's the RW side as I see it. Either way, you'll have to pay your dues before getting into your dream job. Personally, I'd lean towards FW. I think the RW market is getting saturated at the bottom with GI Bill students looking for jobs.
 
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labbadabba said:
Wife and kids. Wife is almost wrapped up with her (2nd) master's degree and I expect she'll be on the job market very soon so moving in the next 12-18 months wouldn't be too much of an issue. Moving around a LOT however may be problematic. I still have to get my CPL but I'm trying to figure out where I should devote my re$ource$.
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Not bad!

Sounds like a good setup
 
labbadabba said:
Wife and kids. Wife is almost wrapped up with her (2nd) master's degree and I expect she'll be on the job market very soon so moving in the next 12-18 months wouldn't be too much of an issue. Moving around a LOT however may be problematic. I still have to get my CPL but I'm trying to figure out where I should devote my re$ource$.
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If the both of you are in agreement about you flying for a living, then it sounds like you are off to a good start.

When I was in flight school, a instructor left because he got the ultimatum from his wife. Get a good paying job or fly by yourself.
 
Velocity173 said:
So, if you were to go RW, a normal progression would be COM / INST and start instructing around 300 hrs. To get that experience, I'd say you're looking at 80K out of pocket, unless you're a GI Bill guy. You'll make crap pay (30-40K) instructing. Once you get around 500 hrs, you'll go the tour route. Most likely piston since the turbine spots are hard to get. Tours could be feast or famine (seasonal). Pay (40-50K) isn't good either. After that, you're looking at most likely SE in the Gulf of Mexico (GoM) or air ambulance (EMS). Both require around 1,500 -2,000 hrs. EMS will want heavy NVG time which most likely you won't have yet. Pay will be around 60-80K. After that and if you want, you can move into a FO position in a ME IFR GoM ship like a S-76 or even a single pilot IFR EMS H-135. Looking at around 2,000-3,000 hrs min. Base pay will be around 80K and upwards to 130K once you make captain. Many bonuses, stipends, overtime, travel and holiday pay with both GoM and EMS so add about 25-30 % to those numbers. I can tell you both are prior Military dominated especially EMS due to the NVG requirement.
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That would be a traditional progression for sure but your number are off I'm afraid.

I began RW training in 2008, got my Comm in 2012. I averaged 18k a season flying piston tours (4 years). My flight instructor friends averaged 25k/yr. GoM ops are dried up at the moment and not expected to pick up for 2 years minimum per PHI at this years Heli Expo. When I got to 1500 PIC Helicopter I finally got an interview in the Ditch (Grand Canyon) and was flat out told by the CP that though he liked me he had 24 more qualified candidates for each position (people laid off from the GoM). The current mins for EMS are 2000 total, 500 turbine, etc, etc and all my friends that were able to get EMS jobs were all above minimums and the one that wasn't prior military was waaaaay above minimums.

Are there opportunities out there? Sure are, I know guys with connections that got hired in the Ditch the day they got 1000 PIC. Those are few and far between. Helicopter business is **** right now.

For what its worth OP, just finished training at a 121 Regional 1800 some total time, 265 PIC airplane and 42 years young. My first year pay @ guarantee is 56k. With Controllable Completion Factor bonuses and profit sharing I'm already on pace to exceed that and I haven't even flow the line yet. As much as I really enjoyed the helicopter business it would be pretty dumb to try to get in now. Also, helicopters are utilized in remote locations. It may sound dumb to say that aloud but the reality is you'll be far from civilization unless EMS. At least in 121 ops I'm guaranteed 11 days off a month minimum. Being gone for 5 - 6 months straight was a major reason I got divorce papers served to me at work at Mount Rushmore, lol.
 
Zeldman said:
If the both of you are in agreement about you flying for a living, then it sounds like you are off to a good start.

When I was in flight school, a instructor left because he got the ultimatum from his wife. Get a good paying job or fly by yourself.
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Yeah, I have the good paying job now...

We talked some about it last night, she asked about starting pay and I told her that it's gone up quite a bit in recent years. (I hear $50k bounced around as starting pay at the regionals these days) Besides, I supported her with a single income and two kids in full-time childcare while she got her masters. Her new career path should be able to pay the bills...

My big worry is time with kids. Since as a pilot, my schedule will be all over the place, I won't be able to commit to things like coaching the softball team or participating in a musical with my girls. Stuff like that. So I have to figure the sacrifice is more about family time than money at this point.
 
I have the same worry I have young kids. But the alternative in my case is a 9-6 job with probably an hour commute on either end plus business travel. So I'm not sure the airline pilot situation is worse, as I'd rather have bigger blocks of time to hang with them than just living for the weekend...


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My problem is the pay cut. :( Don't think the wife is willing to go backwards in that department.
 
Guys cmon the "bad" schedules are for about one year tops nowadays. Before you know it you'll have so many days off your wife will ask you "don't you have a trip coming up ?" .
 
jaybee said:
That would be a traditional progression for sure but your number are off I'm afraid.

I began RW training in 2008, got my Comm in 2012. I averaged 18k a season flying piston tours (4 years). My flight instructor friends averaged 25k/yr. GoM ops are dried up at the moment and not expected to pick up for 2 years minimum per PHI at this years Heli Expo. When I got to 1500 PIC Helicopter I finally got an interview in the Ditch (Grand Canyon) and was flat out told by the CP that though he liked me he had 24 more qualified candidates for each position (people laid off from the GoM). The current mins for EMS are 2000 total, 500 turbine, etc, etc and all my friends that were able to get EMS jobs were all above minimums and the one that wasn't prior military was waaaaay above minimums.

Are there opportunities out there? Sure are, I know guys with connections that got hired in the Ditch the day they got 1000 PIC. Those are few and far between. Helicopter business is **** right now.

For what its worth OP, just finished training at a 121 Regional 1800 some total time, 265 PIC airplane and 42 years young. My first year pay @ guarantee is 56k. With Controllable Completion Factor bonuses and profit sharing I'm already on pace to exceed that and I haven't even flow the line yet. As much as I really enjoyed the helicopter business it would be pretty dumb to try to get in now. Also, helicopters are utilized in remote locations. It may sound dumb to say that aloud but the reality is you'll be far from civilization unless EMS. At least in 121 ops I'm guaranteed 11 days off a month minimum. Being gone for 5 - 6 months straight was a major reason I got divorce papers served to me at work at Mount Rushmore, lol.
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It's funny, you mentioned the one important reason why I stay in helicopters; remote locations. I would never live in the city for a flying job or even commute to the city for a flying job. Other reasons for going helos but that's a biggie for me.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Guys cmon the "bad" schedules are for about one year tops nowadays. Before you know it you'll have so many days off your wife will ask you "don't you have a trip coming up ?" .
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Not even one year anymore. April will be my first year at the airline and I average 15-17 days off a month, every weekend off, and I got every major holiday off.
 
Velocity173 said:
It's funny, you mentioned the one important reason why I stay in helicopters; remote locations. I would never live in the city for a flying job or even commute to the city for a flying job. Other reasons for going helos but that's a biggie for me.
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Remote never bothered me any. Central Washington and South Dakota were the "worst" I worked with that in mind. As far as airlines, commuting out of MLB from Cocoa, I wouldn't consider either big.
 
jaybee said:
Remote never bothered me any. Central Washington and South Dakota were the "worst" I worked with that in mind. As far as airlines, commuting out of MLB from Cocoa, I wouldn't consider either big.
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Well, there's some places that are seriously remote that I wouldn't want to do either. We always have job openings at our SD base. Maybe it's the humidity there. :D

I just like the ability to pick exactly where I want to live. I know people who live where they want but have a long commute to work. GoM comes to mind. I've got friends who commute down there, gone for 2 weeks, then home for 2 weeks. Most seem to like it but it's not for me.

Either community, it's possible to break in and make a career out of. If the OP is set in FW, I wouldn't worry about pay or job availability. Just stick with it and it'll happen. I'd also say, with either community be ready for paying dues early on and be ready for a turbulent climate in the future. While both have strong growth right now, furloughs are always a possibility. Be ready to pack up, dust off the resume and move on to somewhere else.
 
Amen to that.

At the time I wanted to be a GoM pilot I lived on the Gulf and it was a very stable career field and also at the time you could hardly give the job away in 2008 they were hiring people with as low as 750 hrs.

So yea, keep that resume up to date RW or FW !
 
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