Lance Armstrong Stripped Of All Titles

jesse said:
Next time that happens let me know. I've been down that road many times. Why did you have to shut it down for 12 hours to get a dump? If you're using InnoDB you can just dump in a single transaction without causing any real locking issues: --single-transaction option on mysqldump. Filesystem snapshot works very well with InnoDB as well and can be trusted. If you're really concerned you can do a flush tables with read lock; and then snapshot quickly and unlock tables.
Click to expand...

Heh. Wasn't my project. If you recall from our in-person discussions, it was that stupid e-mail DB that shouldn't be in an RDBMS anyway. ;) (I just stay out of it. Haha. If it ever falls to me to maintain it, the first thing that will happen is imapsync will suck everything out of it into a proper mail server, and it'll be shut down. Haha.)
 
> I wonder if whatever organization runs the Tour de France recognizes the
> USADA's authority to strip titles.

Yes.
 
Someday, years into the future, there will come a time when no people will wish to meddle in the lives of others. The super nova will then burn up everything else as well. Fry the forests, evaporate the oceans, melt the rocks.

-John
 
Look, the dude won Sheryl Crow, he can give back all the rest and still fart in our general direction while walking away a winner laughing at us.
 
As long as he gets to keep his G4, who cares. It landed at my home field last year and if I remember correctly, his tail number makes reference to his 7 tour victories.
 
> his tail number makes reference to his 7 tour victories.

N7LA

Lucky for him that the FAA will decline to issue N0LA, N00LA, N000LA.
 
This agency is another waste of tax payer money. Talking about government waste. If the witnesses they had lined up, who also in the past have been guilty of doping, in a real courtroom would have been tossed off the stand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I always wondered why USPS would sponsor an international bicycle team. I'm not sure if they got a lot of mileage out of the dollars that they spent on it. But regardless, the USPS dumped a lot of money in his lap. So I wonder if the USPS and the USDA are looking to recoup some of that tax payer money with all this. If they sue him for it that is.
 
Lance used transfusion, and lot of it, to never test positive. If you replace all the blood, you can dope like crazy and never have it in the blood.

The witnesses to the total body transfusion-ing were forthcoming; yes he never tested positive, but he sure did manipulate the blood. His argument that the witness depositions were held secret holds no water- they would have all come out had he disputed it.

Sorry, Lance, you suck.
 
Was it his own stored blood or other peoples? If other peoples wouldn't that be detectable in the samples? If he was storing his own, blood management must be tricky.
bbchien said:
Lance used transfusion, and lot of it, to never test positive. If you replace all the blood, you can dope like crazy and never have it in the blood.

The witnesses to the total body transfusion-ing were forthcoming; yes he never tested positive, but he sure did manipulate the blood. His argument that the witness depositions were held secret holds no water- they would have all come out had he disputed it.

Sorry, Lance, you suck.
Click to expand...
 
ClimbnSink said:
Was it his own stored blood or other peoples? If other peoples wouldn't that be detectable in the samples? If he was storing his own, blood management must be tricky.
Click to expand...

This is the reason we all can reasonably deduce that far more people were involved, and some of them rode past my friend watching them today, riding in the Colorado mountains.

The deal was likely, "We want Lance, and if you don't cooperate and tell us what you know, you'll never ride professionally again." Alternatively, their stories will never come out. They'll continue racing.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Was it his own stored blood or other peoples? If other peoples wouldn't that be detectable in the samples? If he was storing his own, blood management must be tricky.
Click to expand...

not unless they tested the DNA of the blood - they MIGHT have done so if he pushed his challenge.

Seems like Dr. Bruce gets is right . . . total blood volume replacement would solve his problem in advance of the test, would it not?
 
The biggest question, to me, is why an agency of the U.S. Government has been so obsessed with Armstrong to begin with.

How many tax dollars has dear Uncle spent in this single-minded effort to destroy the reputation of a retired American athlete, in a sport which (except for the TdF itself) is cared about by maybe 10 percent of the U.S. population?

I don't get it. Whether Armstrong did or didn't juice himself up, transfuse himself, or do whatever else he may have done to get an edge, just doesn't seem important enough to me to justify the effort and the tax dollars spent. Doesn't the U.S. government have more important things to worry about? I can suggest a few...

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The biggest question, to me, is why an agency of the U.S. Government has been so obsessed with Armstrong to begin with.

How many tax dollars has dear Uncle spent in this single-minded effort to destroy the reputation of a retired American athlete, in a sport which (except for the TdF itself) is cared about by maybe 10 percent of the U.S. population?

I don't get it. Whether Armstrong did or didn't juice himself up, transfuse himself, or do whatever else he may have done to get an edge, just doesn't seem important enough to me to justify the effort and the tax dollars spent. Doesn't the U.S. government have more important things to worry about? I can suggest a few...

-Rich
Click to expand...

Currently, the US government is spending $4,000,000,000.00 a day more than it takes in. That is one hell of a credit card bill. You would think agencies like this "Anti doping" agency would be the first on the chopping block.
 
bbchien said:
Lance used transfusion, and lot of it, to never test positive. If you replace all the blood, you can dope like crazy and never have it in the blood.
Click to expand...
Total blood replacement to elude PED tests? Boy, was I ever naive. When they mentioned transfusions in connection with doping, I always thought they were talking about autologous transfusion to increase RBC/Hgb/Hct.
 
azure said:
I wasn't aware that the USADA was a governmental agency. According to their website, they're not.

http://www.usada.org/about
Click to expand...

For all practical purposes, they are a de facto government agency. They receive about 70 percent of their funding from tax dollars and are invested by the government with investigative and enforcement powers.

If it quacks like a duck...

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The biggest question, to me, is why an agency of the U.S. Government has been so obsessed with Armstrong to begin with.

How many tax dollars has dear Uncle spent in this single-minded effort to destroy the reputation of a retired American athlete, in a sport which (except for the TdF itself) is cared about by maybe 10 percent of the U.S. population?

I don't get it. Whether Armstrong did or didn't juice himself up, transfuse himself, or do whatever else he may have done to get an edge, just doesn't seem important enough to me to justify the effort and the tax dollars spent. Doesn't the U.S. government have more important things to worry about? I can suggest a few...

-Rich
Click to expand...

Thanks Rich for your usual insight.
 
azure said:
I wasn't aware that the USADA was a governmental agency. According to their website, they're not.

http://www.usada.org/about
Click to expand...

I heard 75% comes from U.S. taxpayer dollars.

FUNDING
As an independent, non-governmental, nonprofit organization, USADA receives funding through a grant from the United States government. The agency also has a contractual agreement with the USOC for conducting an Olympic Anti-Doping Program, testing U.S. athletes and the adjudication process for doping violations. The 2009 budget for USADA is $13.3 million, with approximately 74% from the federal government and 26% from the USOC.
Click to expand...
http://www.usada.org/files/pdfs/press-kit.pdf

The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is the independent, non-governmental anti-doping agency for Olympic sport in the United States.
Click to expand...

If you get 74% of your money from Uncle, who might you be beholden to? :dunno:

Independent my a$$.
 
Last edited:
RJM62 said:
For all practical purposes, they are a de facto government agency. They receive about 70 percent of their funding from tax dollars and are invested by the government with investigative and enforcement powers.

If it quacks like a duck...

-Rich
Click to expand...

What government-invested enforcement powers? Reference please. Yes they are funded largely by the taxpayers; that's not surprising since they are recognized by Congress as the "official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sport in the United States". But they're not federal agents and they don't (as far as I'm aware) enforce any code of federal regulations. AFAIK their power comes from being recognized by the governing bodies of the individual sports that they serve. Does refusing to pee in a cup subject athletes to civil or criminal penalties? (other than loss of income because the USAC or ICU bars them from competition)

Personally I think this will go on as long as our society elevates athletes like Lance to cult hero status and dangles obscene amounts of money in front of young people to entice them to perform feats of physical prowess instead of pursuing careers in, say, science or medicine. At least Lance has done something truly worthwhile for humanity with some of that money, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.

That's all I have to say about that; wouldn't want to send this thread into the SZ. :no:
 
Last edited:
azure said:
Personally I think this will go on as long as our society elevates athletes like Lance to cult hero status and dangles obscene amounts of money in front of young people to entice them to perform feats of physical prowess instead of pursuing careers in, say, science or medicine.

At least Lance has done something truly worthwhile for humanity with some of that money, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.
Click to expand...


Yes & Yes
 
ClimbnSink said:
Was it his own stored blood or other peoples? If other peoples wouldn't that be detectable in the samples? If he was storing his own, blood management must be tricky.
Click to expand...
The French agency retested samples taken before the 2004 and two other Tour de France races in which he participated. It was done to other athletes' samples as well.

The current assay (devised in 2009) is capable of detecting EPO in very small amounts, even around transfused blood. It was positive, but as there is no international convention on protocol for how this test is done, they did not act; they referred to the American Authorities. Yes, the democrats created such a bureaucracy in the last decade. It is the FRENCH that revoke the Tour de France medals based on the American investigation, which was apparently old style gumshoe, get the testimony of the people who delivered the blood, administered same, etc....

Lance is only partly right in that he played by the "rules at the time" except the preamble to the Tour agreement has language to the effect that in order to prevent one athlete from gaining an advantage over another, the testing is done. So the intent is clear, and his evasion (not avoidance) is also clear.
 
Last edited:
RJM62 said:
The biggest question, to me, is why an agency of the U.S. Government has been so obsessed with Armstrong to begin with.

How many tax dollars has dear Uncle spent in this single-minded effort to destroy the reputation of a retired American athlete, in a sport which (except for the TdF itself) is cared about by maybe 10 percent of the U.S. population?

I don't get it. Whether Armstrong did or didn't juice himself up, transfuse himself, or do whatever else he may have done to get an edge, just doesn't seem important enough to me to justify the effort and the tax dollars spent. Doesn't the U.S. government have more important things to worry about? I can suggest a few...

-Rich
Click to expand...

I hear ya, I'm of the WTF? Opinion myself. We have a Federal Doping Police force? A prosecutor's office?
 
Athletics is about entertainment. It is about promoting products and creating media fill and draw. He met all the obligations and then some. He should not be prosecuted for being an economic net gain to his industry. That's the part about it that is totally ****ed. Drugs have always been part of sports through the eons.

BTW, the only reason the TdF gets over 10% here is solely due to Lance Armstrong. If not for him, the TdF would make a solid 3.
 
Last edited:
An alternate view:

At his level of fame, one needs to think of Lance Armstrong as a corporation, not the athlete. This is not neighbor Joe playing snooker at the local pub, nor an entertainment industry like the WWF.

Lance Armstrong, Inc. (L.A. Inc.) performed at a level that attracted investors (sponsors) who are buying exposure, advertising, and image association based on Lance Armstrong, Inc.’s repeated self-certification statements that he has tested clean. (the investors have also made risk evaluations based on public information that he L.A. Inc. didn’t have hobbies like sacrificing kittens)

If L.A. Inc. is later shown to have been deceptive with test results and substance usage, there are actual and potentially significant damages that have occurred to the individuals and firms who invested based on his (false) representation.

Is this much different than a fictional company, say the highly popular Bob’s Squeaky Clean Widgets Inc., that was caught inflating its value due to falsely certifying that it didn’t import and distribute products made with child labor? If employees were willing to come forward and testify that they were chained to work tables making Widgets since 8 years of age with Bob’s knowledge, would those experiencing large losses due to this association and investment not be in a similar situation?

Should there be some authority equivalent to the SEC involved to discourage this kind of activity when losses of substantial dollars are involved, or should each party be required to argue a case individually in court?
 
azure said:
What government-invested enforcement powers? Reference please. Yes they are funded largely by the taxpayers; that's not surprising since they are recognized by Congress as the "official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sport in the United States". But they're not federal agents and they don't (as far as I'm aware) enforce any code of federal regulations. AFAIK their power comes from being recognized by the governing bodies of the individual sports that they serve. Does refusing to pee in a cup subject athletes to civil or criminal penalties? (other than loss of income because the USAC or ICU bars them from competition)

Personally I think this will go on as long as our society elevates athletes like Lance to cult hero status and dangles obscene amounts of money in front of young people to entice them to perform feats of physical prowess instead of pursuing careers in, say, science or medicine. At least Lance has done something truly worthwhile for humanity with some of that money, which is more than I can say for a lot of them.

That's all I have to say about that; wouldn't want to send this thread into the SZ. :no:
Click to expand...

A weak defense at best. :rolleyes:

The facts are my tax dollars were spent chasing Lance Armstrong for 10 years. :mad2:

How does the American tax payer benifits from these tests? How are we safer, taking care of our needy, or building hiways knowing athletes are drug free?

It is exactly this type of wasteful spending that must be stopped. If you want to participate in events that require doping tests they let that participants find sponsors and funds to do the testing.
 
Last edited:
Geico266 said:
A weak defense at best. :rolleyes:

The facts are my tax dollars were spent chasing Lance Armstrong for 10 years. :mad2:

How does the American tax payer benifits from these tests? How are we safer, taking care of our needy, or building hiways knowing athletes are drug free?

It is exactly this type of wasteful spending that must be stopped. If you want to participate in events that require doping tests they let that participants find sponsors and funds to do the testing.
Click to expand...

But Government is the biggest show of all, especially elections. Rupert Murdock is a reincarnate of P.T. Barnum. Look at the 8 years and millions of dollars investigating Clinton as well, it kept CNN and all the growing 24 hr news channels full of froth and yet what did we find? A blowjob and some cigar humidifying. Cocaine funded Clinton's campaigns from Attorney General on when he made the deal with VP Bush to allow Calais Cartel coke into Mena. That funded Madison Guarantee which is how the money was laundered into contributions from those seeking business loans that never needed to be repaid at a dime on the dollar. None of that ever came out in that investigation, but we did try too impeach a sitting President over a splooge stain.:rolleyes:

It's nothing but entertainment and distraction in the name of Capitalism. The only problem with Capitalism is that it is based on Consumerism which is modeled the same as a Ponzi scheme.
 
Geico266 said:
A weak defense at best. :rolleyes:

The facts are my tax dollars were spent chasing Lance Armstrong for 10 years. :mad2:

How does the American tax payer benifits from these tests? How are we safer, taking care of our needy, or building hiways knowing athletes are drug free?

It is exactly this type of wasteful spending that must be stopped. If you want to participate in events that require doping tests they let that participants find sponsors and funds to do the testing.
Click to expand...

'Zackly. This should be left up to the governing bodies of the respective sports.
 
roncachamp said:
'Zackly. This should be left up to the governing bodies of the respective sports.
Click to expand...

But this is an industry at this level and no longer a sport -- the impact of his actions bleed well past the boundaries of the sport in our over-commercialized reality.

Should the SEC just go away and leave the NYSE to police its own?
 
roncachamp said:
'Zackly. This should be left up to the governing bodies of the respective sports.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

You said in 13 words what it took me 3 posts to make my point. (14 words if "Zackly" is counted:rofl:)

Wasting tax dollars, no matter how small needs to stop. I hope I never hear another politician say; "In comparison to the overall budget his is a small item.". A few billion here or there and pretty soon you are talking real money! :mad2:

If it saves $.10 in tax dollars I want it stopped!
 
Last edited:
ElPaso Pilot said:
But this is an industry at this level and no longer a sport -- the impact of his actions bleed well past the boundaries of the sport in our over-commercialized reality.

Should the SEC just go away and leave the NYSE to police its own?
Click to expand...

This is more akin to a Federal Prosecutor going after the WWF for 'fixing fights'.
 
Henning said:
But Government is the biggest show of all, especially elections. Rupert Murdock is a reincarnate of P.T. Barnum. Look at the 8 years and millions of dollars investigating Clinton as well, it kept CNN and all the growing 24 hr news channels full of froth and yet what did we find? A blowjob and some cigar humidifying. Cocaine funded Clinton's campaigns from Attorney General on when he made the deal with VP Bush to allow Calais Cartel coke into Mena. That funded Madison Guarantee which is how the money was laundered into contributions from those seeking business loans that never needed to be repaid at a dime on the dollar. None of that ever came out in that investigation, but we did try too impeach a sitting President over a splooge stain.:rolleyes:

It's nothing but entertainment and distraction in the name of Capitalism. The only problem with Capitalism is that it is based on Consumerism which is modeled the same as a Ponzi scheme.
Click to expand...

Henning, you give me a headache. :lol:

Not saying you are right or wrong, you usually are more right than wrong, you just give me a headach . ;)
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
How much of the millions of cash inflow to L.A., Inc. is coming from bicycling?



Nah. The WWF openly bills itself these days as an entertainment industry.
Click to expand...

If all of athletics is not the entertainment industry, then just what is it?:dunno: The only reason any of it exists is to sell tickets and advertising revenue. Even PeeWee leagues are about sponsors getting parents to use their business.
 
Henning said:
If all of athletics is not the entertainment industry, then just what is it?:dunno: The only reason any of it exists is to sell tickets and advertising revenue. Even PeeWee leagues are about sponsors getting parents to use their business.
Click to expand...

Sure, but one might be willing to place a wager on the outcome of a sporting event.

I don't see too many Vegas odds on the next WWF match. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top