KRAP!

[USAF JD]

I am taking the family on a unexpected trip to the Back Hills area. Final destination for flying is KRAP (kids picked up on that quick). We have a cabin rented Wednesday -Sunday. I think we can bail out around 4 tomorrow so I am looking for some overnight ideas around Sioux Falls + or - 100 miles or so to break up the trip.

It's supposed to be close to 100 this weekend. I don't know if my performance charts go that high....

Anything good to see?

 

[iflyvfr]

Black Hills are a long ways from Sioux City. Where will you be staying? There's greatness in the Rapid City area: if you haven't seen the Badlands, it's amazing and close to KRAP, https://www.nps.gov/badl/index.htm. You can drive thru it, get out and hike/explore. I'd love to go back. Devil's Tower is a 1.5 hr drive NW of KRAP and is a phenomenal site to see, https://www.nps.gov/deto/index.htm. It was the highlight of my trip enroute to Yellowstone a few years back. Bring binoculars if you go. We RON'd at Spearfish Airport and they arranged a really nice extended cab pickup for us to tool around in and Devil's Tower is only an hour's drive from there.

Also, if you go to Mt Rushmore and the WX cooperates, do the evening show. I expected it would be a hokey side-show attraction but was far from it. You can also enjoy a real cowboy show at the Circle B ranch, great fun for kids of all ages: http://www.blackhillsbadlands.com/business/circle-b-chuckwagon-supper-and-cowboy-music-showFInally, there's the Corn Palace in Mitchell, SD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Palace - can't miss that. I expected it would be a hokey side-show attraction but I FAR underestimated that one.

 

[USAF JD]

I am looking for an intermediate stop somewhere between Chicago and Rapid City. That gives us around 2 1/2 hours tomorrow and 2 Wednesday. We may just hit Wisconsin tomorrow night and then do four on Wednesday. It really looks like a lot of nothing until you get to Wall.

We will have at least 4 days in the black hills to site see, we are really looking forward to it. It's one of the few places I have never been.

 

[Z06_Mir]

FSD is decent, but be aware that runway 03/21 is closed and you may end up with a monster crosswind to 33/15 or 9/27. You could stop in Pierre, it's the State Capitol. It's also tiny but there are quite a few nice things to see there. It's only 120 miles from RAP though, so may not be the best overnight stop unless you are really tired.

As far as KRAP itself.. nice airport, great controllers (usually...) and good facilities to stop at. If you need more info on that front, feel free to PM me. The density altitude does get fairly high, 6,000 or more if it's 100+.

Things to do. Mt. Rushmore and Crazy Horse, of course. I'd also recommend going for a drive through the Custer Wildlife Loop and through Spearfish Canyon (they're not close to each other though) as well as heading out to the Bandlands. Downtown Rapid City has statues of different Presidents on various street corners if you want to get a selfie with them . Thursdays they do a thing called "Summer Nights" where a street downtown is closed off and there are various food/drink vendors and live music around.

Places you need to eat: Alpine Inn (Hill City), Black Hills Burger & Bun (Custer), Colonial House (Rapid City), Firehouse Brewing Co. (Rapid City, if you're into beer and wine). There are also several wineries and breweries including Miner Brewing, Prairie Berry Winery, Naked Winery and I'm sure I'm missing some.

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I grew up there, have done a lot of flying there etc so I am happy to help with what I can

 

[USAF JD]

Thanks for the info, a good burger joint is always a hit with this group.

I am going to KRAP with a nice long runway after looking at the performance charts of the Lance. I will be 200 below gross with the family of 5 and 80 gallons... Maybe a little heavier after those burgers and beers.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Thanks for the info, a good burger joint is always a hit with this group.

I am going to KRAP with a nice long runway after looking at the performance charts of the Lance. I will be 200 below gross with the family of 5 and 80 gallons... Maybe a little heavier after those burgers and beers.

If you're a burger guy, in addition to Burger and Bun Co, try Sugar Shack. It's quite literally a shack, but a tasty one. If you're into breakfast try Stonewalls Kitchen.. Their bacon is the best in town and the pancakes are HUGE.

 

[gkainz]

Places you need to eat: Alpine Inn (Hill City), Black Hills Burger & Bun (Custer), Colonial House (Rapid City), Firehouse Brewing Co. (Rapid City, if you're into beer and wine). There are also several wineries and breweries including Miner Brewing, Prairie Berry Winery, Naked Winery and I'm sure I'm missing some.

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. I grew up there, have done a lot of flying there etc so I am happy to help with what I can

All those places are new since I left in '76 for the Navy ... I think we discussed this before ... you're from Rapid, right? I grew up in Custer.

 

[gkainz]

Near Custer - Jewel Cave ... if you're going to see only 1 cave, this is the one. Look for books and info on Jan and Herb Conn, the main cave explorers. Jan was a friend of my mom. I have a rescue guitar from Jan (see her other talents besides spelunker).
Custer State Park (recommended above), Game Lodge, Wildlife Loop Road, Needles Highway, Sylvan Lake (National Treasure II had scenes filmed here ... spoiler - there is NO cave there), Sylvan Lake Lodge, Sunday Gulch hike, Harney Peak (now pc-renamed to something else), Crazy Horse (went to school with half-dozen of the Ziolkowski kids - but so did everyone who went to school in Custer).
Near Hot Springs - Mammoth Dig, Evans Plunge, Wind Cave National Park (and maybe Wind Cave), Cicero Peak fire lookout hike, Blue Bell Lodge
Towards Rapid City - Bear Country, (I hate to recommend the next, because it's just not "Black Hills" but ...), Reptile Gardens ... I guess it's been in the Hills for so long that it has become Black Hills tradition, in spite of being somewhat out of place. Heck, there used to be a Sea World Aquarium back in the day - talk about out of place! Air and Space Museum at Ellsworth. Natural History Museum at School of Mines.
Homestake Gold Mine used to have tours, but I believe that's changed.
Deadwood and Lead are now gambling towns - not sure what there is to see, besides Boot Hill Cemetery in Deadwood.
Further NW is Spearfish Canyon
Further SW is Devil's Tower.

 

[tawood]

...I'd also recommend going for a drive through the Custer Wildlife Loop...

This was the highlight of my trip to the Rapid City area when I went on my motorcycle and I highly recommend it...although I was almost run over by an angry buffalo (no joke). Needles highway was awesome too. Here's a pic of each:

 

[USAF JD]

Thanks for all the great recommendations, it looks like we will be busy the rest of the week.

Sweet FJR, I just parted with my multistrada and miss her already.

 

[iamtheari]

Sioux Falls is a nice city and you should be able to make a good stop out of it. I've been there two overnights, both times on work trips so I didn't see much, but I know there is plenty to do if you look for it. Pierre is the second smallest state capital (behind Montpelier and just ahead of Helena). I've never been there so I can't say if it's worth stopping. I would truck on to Rapid City if I were already that close, unless weather or fatigue stopped me.

In the Black Hills, you should have supper at Jake's in Deadwood (top level of Midnight Star Casino, owned by Kevin Costner, hence the movie posters in the stairway). You should visit the #10 Saloon in Deadwood, which is across the street from its location when Wild Bill Hickock was shot but they still have the chair he was sitting in at the time, as well as lots of live music and good poker tables although those are less kid-friendly attractions. They also have shoot-outs and other reenactments in the streets of Deadwood and sometimes live music. I saw .38 Special for free there 12 years ago.

Pick a cave to visit. I like Wonderful Wonderland Cave, mostly because of memories of a childhood trip there when we followed the signs that said "Wonderful Wonderland Cave, Just Ahead!" or "Next Left!" for about 300 miles to get there. Rushmore Cave (not under Rushmore or anything, but nearby) is a better one to visit, I think, and has a little zipline to ride while you wait.

Kids love Reptile Gardens in/near Rapid City. I've never been as I don't do well with snakes.

Rapid City airport's FBO is friendly in my experience. I called ahead to rent a car once and they got us a pickup for the compact or midsize price. They use tie-down chains so if you're afraid of those you will want to talk to them about the matter before you leave your plane unattended. The controllers are also good. You should talk to Ellsworth Approach on the way in just to make life easier dealing with the two conjoined class D airspaces, although it's optional to do so. I come in from the north so I talk to Ellsworth Approach, fly almost directly over the air base, and then get handed off to Rapid City Regional Tower after I have it in sight. It seems to be easy to lose in the ground clutter and it is lined up with Ellsworth so it's no surprise that pilots of all levels occasionally screw it up.

 

[USAF JD]

My wife keeps hearing about a purple pie place. Any reviews?

 

[gkainz]

My wife keeps hearing about a purple pie place. Any reviews?

The Purple Pie place is absolutely awesome. Strawberry Rhubarb is my favorite. I think it may recently have changed hands, tho. I'll ask my cousin, who works for Custer Chamber of Commerce.

 

[Pilawt]

Also, if you go to Mt Rushmore and the WX cooperates, do the evening show. I expected it would be a hokey side-show attraction but was far from it.

+1. The evening show has the additional benefits of a much smaller crowd, easier parking, and more pleasant temperatures than during the day.

Downtown Rapid City has statues of different Presidents on various street corners if you want to get a selfie with them .

Look for the poignant statue of JFK on the northwest corner of Main St. and Mt. Rushmore Rd. (Hwy 16), in front of the Rushmore Hotel. The statue depicts JFK handing a toy airplane to his toddler son.

 

[gkainz]

Pierre is the second smallest state capital (behind Montpelier and just ahead of Helena).

Don't self-identify as a "not from around here" and pronounce it like the French do. It's "Peer".

 

[Pilawt]

Pierre is the second smallest state capital (behind Montpelier and just ahead of Helena).

And what's the largest state capital? (Hint: see signature line)

 

[Z06_Mir]

My wife keeps hearing about a purple pie place. Any reviews?

Very tasty!!

 

[denverpilot]

Thanks for the info, a good burger joint is always a hit with this group.

I am going to KRAP with a nice long runway after looking at the performance charts of the Lance. I will be 200 below gross with the family of 5 and 80 gallons... Maybe a little heavier after those burgers and beers.

Everyone else has covered the fun stuff so I'll cover this one...

Don't land on the Air Force base. More than one airliner has done it, as well as a number of other folks. LOL. Not kidding.

I don't know what it is about their proximity to each other, or people don't expect to see two airports with runways that long close together or what... aligned nearly the same... etc etc etc.

But every few years someone lands at Ellsworth who was intending to land at KRAP.

I think the last airline to do it was Delta.

 

[Norman]

Been there a few times. Coming from the west/northwest it is a very easy mistake to make. Ellsworth stands out better than RAP.

 

[iamtheari]

Here's the report on Delta: http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/04/airbus-a320-200-delta-air-lines-n333nw.html
I hope the OP doesn't fly an extended downwind at 12,000 MSL.

 

[Goofy]

Careful flying around Rushmore, lotta traffic! I flew in while on frequency and there was a chopper reporting same location. We talked but never saw each other. Snapped a quick pick over my should and bailed out.

 

[AKBill]

Custer State Park (3V0) is a nice spot.

 

[USAF JD]

Thanks for all the great recommendations, we had a blast exploring this beautiful area.

Unfortunately we are not big planners and availability of lodging is pretty scarce around here this time of year so instead of $300 at the Flea Bag Inn we are moving on to Denver to see the bigger rocks.

I am looking at parking at BJC. Any PIREPS? I am planning on staying east and avoid some of the bumps on the way down.

 

[murphey]

Thanks for all the great recommendations, we had a blast exploring this beautiful area.

Unfortunately we are not big planners and availability of lodging is pretty scarce around here this time of year so instead of $300 at the Flea Bag Inn we are moving on to Denver to see the bigger rocks.

I am looking at parking at BJC. Any PIREPS? I am planning on staying east and avoid some of the bumps on the way down.

Another opportunity for a POA get-together? This time the folks on the NW side of the Front Range have no excuse!

Depending where you'll be going, consider Longmont. Nice people, cheaper fuel. Either way, the NW side is a very busy area with jumpers and lots of training. Make sure you're on flight following because there area multiple freqs used by the many airports.

If heading to Estes Park/Rocky Mtn park, consider Ft Collins (FNL).

 

[USAF JD]

Ended up in FNL and we are staying in Estes for a few days. A little more touristy than I would have liked but things should thin out tomorrow. Planning on a lot of hiking and taking it all in. It's a different world up here.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Clip4]

I have been there, wish I had gone IFR so I could have read back cleared to KRAP.

 

[gkainz]

Thanks for all the great recommendations, we had a blast exploring this beautiful area.

Unfortunately we are not big planners and availability of lodging is pretty scarce around here this time of year so instead of $300 at the Flea Bag Inn we are moving on to Denver to see the bigger rocks.

I am looking at parking at BJC. Any PIREPS? I am planning on staying east and avoid some of the bumps on the way down.

Yeah, I forgot to warn you about that ... hotel rates are ridiculously steep, with Holiday Inn vs Hobo Hangout pretty much the same $$s and vacancy rates.

 

[KayDeeW]

Thanks for all the great recommendations, we had a blast exploring this beautiful area.

Unfortunately we are not big planners and availability of lodging is pretty scarce around here this time of year so instead of $300 at the Flea Bag Inn we are moving on to Denver to see the bigger rocks.

I am looking at parking at BJC. Any PIREPS? I am planning on staying east and avoid some of the bumps on the way down.

$300/night?? Seriously?? Good Lord!

 

[iamtheari]

$300/night?? Seriously?? Good Lord!

Check back for the first full week of August. $300/night will seem quite reasonable.

 

[bnt83]

I grew up that area (Y03), I like flying out of FSD, Y14, KYKN etc. Y14 is a tiny airport next to FSD, huge homebuilt presence, a lot of activity there on the weekends.

KYKN is probably the most scenic, fly down the Missouri river and pass over the Gavin's Point dam about 3k MSL. KYKN (Yankton) has a huge concrete runway for its size, a nice large furnished pilot's lounge. Yankton has a pretty decent hotel Kelly Inn (now Best Western) with a nice restaurant attached. You'll need to call a cab or find an airport rat to give you a ride there.

F16s are based in FSD (the Lobos) which can add some coolness if there are out flying around.

 

[KayDeeW]

Check back for the first full week of August. $300/night will seem quite reasonable.

We are planning on going this weekend/beginning of next week.

 

[tawood]

We are planning on going this weekend/beginning of next week.

Don't sweat it...I'm seeing plenty at $100 a night available for our weekend.

 

[N1120A]

Thanks for the info, a good burger joint is always a hit with this group.

I am going to KRAP with a nice long runway after looking at the performance charts of the Lance. I will be 200 below gross with the family of 5 and 80 gallons... Maybe a little heavier after those burgers and beers.

You'll be fine. Lots of power up there, just grab your best power lean.

 

[ejensen]

I like Custer or Spearfish. There is a newer airport at Devil's Tower, Hewlett (HON)

 

[tawood]

You'll be fine. Lots of power up there, just grab your best power lean.

We plan to be there Saturday, and they are predicting 100 degrees on Saturday. I figured density altitude, and it will be like 7000 feet.

 

[Groundpounder]

Everyone else has covered the fun stuff so I'll cover this one...

Don't land on the Air Force base. More than one airliner has done it, as well as a number of other folks. LOL. Not kidding.

I don't know what it is about their proximity to each other, or people don't expect to see two airports with runways that long close together or what... aligned nearly the same... etc etc etc.

But every few years someone lands at Ellsworth who was intending to land at KRAP.

I think the last airline to do it was Delta.

Some co-workers at a 135 I worked for a few years back landed at Ellsworth by accident. Both guys were pretty sharp, so I'm not going to say it could happen to anyone, but its worth being careful. The short version is they were doing the VOR approach, were a little behind the airplane, popped out of the clouds, saw a runway, landed, and hilarity ensued.

 

[ejensen]

Some co-workers at a 135 I worked for a few years back landed at Ellsworth by accident. Both guys were pretty sharp, so I'm not going to say it could happen to anyone, but its worth being careful. The short version is they were doing the VOR approach, were a little behind the airplane, popped out of the clouds, saw a runway, landed, and hilarity ensued.

Isn't far between. We flew into the semi-annual Ellsworth public day. Stay at RAP the day before. Got change to Ellsworth tower before I took off and cleared to land on initial contact. HUGE runways, tower said, 'you might want to land long'

 

[iamtheari]

Some co-workers at a 135 I worked for a few years back landed at Ellsworth by accident. Both guys were pretty sharp, so I'm not going to say it could happen to anyone, but its worth being careful. The short version is they were doing the VOR approach, were a little behind the airplane, popped out of the clouds, saw a runway, landed, and hilarity ensued.

The Delta-at-Ellsworth incident was July 2016. They were being vectored and asked to extend their (wide) downwind leg before turning base, because they thought they were too high. They had already called the airport in sight, but the NTSB thinks they were already looking at Ellsworth by that point. They were told to use caution about Ellsworth, but apparently mistook that for ATC telling them where Rapid City Regional is located.

Every time I have flown into Rapid City and spoken with Ellsworth Approach (which covers both airports), I have been told to report both fields in sight. That has been the practice for some time, as the DPE for my private check ride told me about that call from his days as a commercial pilot. I always see Ellsworth well before I see Rapid City Regional. The latter blends into the landscape better, or something, whereas Ellsworth stands out better. It would be an easy mistake to make. Don't make it.

 

[flyingron]

RAP has a club operated self serve pump and a little club house building that lets you escape dealing with the FBOS. Plenty of tiedowns.

We hit RAP to do Mt. Rushmore, but we also dropped in on Wall, SD (kind of a tourist trap).

 

[iamtheari]

RAP has a club operated self serve pump and a little club house building that lets you escape dealing with the FBOS. Plenty of tiedowns.

We hit RAP to do Mt. Rushmore, but we also dropped in on Wall, SD (kind of a tourist trap).

Thank you. I didn’t know that you could park and get in/out of the airport other than through the FBO with the expensive jelly beans in the lobby.