Korean Ferry Disaster

Well that sucks. This is probably a bigger disaster than the Malasian Airlines flight. 300 still missing in a submerged ship is not a good thing.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Well that sucks. This is probably a bigger disaster than the Malasian Airlines flight. 300 still missing in a submerged ship is not a good thing.
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But CNN still spends more time on the missing plane than the ferry sinking.
 
kkoran said:
But CNN still spends more time on the missing plane than the ferry sinking.
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People like the mysterious, and airplane crashes always sell breakfast cereals and cars and whatever else is advertised. Ships sinking are so much more mundane.

And yes, I also find the very racist jokes to be in poor taste.
 
Quite a few panties all bunched up in this thread.
 
What is it with ferry transportation!? About every 90 days, it seems, a ferry sinks with many lives lost. Also, like in the cruise ship disaster, the captains don't seem to want to " go down with the ship" as in days of old. These two were the first ones off! ( CNN needs to go to aircraft anonymous! They are unable to get off the subject.) Stephen Colbert would never demean anyone in this situation. Far too bright.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
What is it with ferry transportation!? About every 90 days, it seems, a ferry sinks with many lives lost. Also, like in the cruise ship disaster, the captains don't seem to want to " go down with the ship" as in days of old. These two were the first ones off! ( CNN needs to go to aircraft anonymous! They are unable to get off the subject.) Stephen Colbert would never demean anyone in this situation. Far too bright.
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I think that in many parts of the world, ferries (and many other types of public transportation) tend to be overloaded. So there is little margin for error when things go wrong.

Once when I worked on a ship I asked the captain if he would go down with it if all efforts to save it failed. He said that he had no plans to do so. IMHO he is not obliged (by any law or tradition) to do that - but he should make certain that he is the last one to leave.

Dave
 
Well, Obama is probably playing golf on your dime again somewhere, no? Hilary is busy dragging her pregnant daughter around to conferences to announce that she's pregnant, as if anyone cares.
 
denverpilot said:
Well, Obama is probably playing golf on your dime again somewhere, no? Hilary is busy dragging her pregnant daughter around to conferences to announce that she's pregnant, as if anyone cares.
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Well thank god! At least he wasn't strutting around his ranch in his cowboy get up with a manly chain saw for months at a time while Americans were being killed in Irag!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Well thank god! At least he wasn't strutting around his ranch in his cowboy get up with a manly chain saw for months at a time while Americans were being killed in Irag!
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Heh... no soldiers killed during the weekly golf vacations? I had no idea. What amazing timing.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Well thank god! At least he wasn't strutting around his ranch in his cowboy get up with a manly chain saw for months at a time while Americans were being killed in Irag!
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You do realize this is not the spin zone and you are in violation of the TOS of POA , now subject to account suspension? Right?
 
The design constraints on ferries often dont make them the most seaworthy vessels. Add an operation that focusses on quick turnaround times and low cost and bad things can happen. Given the huge numbers of passengers that travel by ferry worldwide, still one of the safer modes of transportation.

Sad accident.
 
It's unclear what happened, but the latest news seems to imply that a sharp turn may have caused a load shift sufficient to upset the ship, vs hitting something and ripping a hole in the side. If that is so, it sounds like a horrid design to me.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It's unclear what happened, but the latest news seems to imply that a sharp turn may have caused a load shift sufficient to upset the ship, vs hitting something and ripping a hole in the side. If that is so, it sounds like a horrid design to me.
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Everything we have (airplanes, ships, whatever) is subject to operating limitations. You can't yank and bank a 747, and I assume similar limitations (radical maneuvers, CG/loading issues, etc) exist with ships.

In other words, it is premature to condemn the design.
 
kyleb said:
Everything we have (airplanes, ships, whatever) is subject to operating limitations. You can't yank and bank a 747, and I assume similar limitations (radical maneuvers, CG/loading issues, etc) exist with ships.

In other words, it is premature to condemn the design.
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Yes it's premature to condemn the design, but for other reasons. We don't actually know what happened yet.
 
Sac Arrow said:
It's unclear what happened, but the latest news seems to imply that a sharp turn may have caused a load shift sufficient to upset the ship, vs hitting something and ripping a hole in the side. If that is so, it sounds like a horrid design to me.
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The problem with ferries is that in order to facilitate the rapid turn-around at each end, you don't lash the vehicles down like you would on an ocean-going car carrier.

It is a design of necessity. The operator must understand his limitations and drive accordingly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The problem with ferries is that in order to facilitate the rapid turn-around at each end, you don't lash the vehicles down like you would on an ocean-going car carrier.

It is a design of necessity. The operator must understand his limitations and drive accordingly.
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Yeah, my issue is having a vessel with such a high CG that a turn or load shift could capsize it. If that is the case.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Yeah, my issue is having a vessel with such a high CG that a turn or load shift could capsize it. If that is the case.
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The CG shouldn't be abnormally high by design, but possible based on improper loading.
 
Not to pick nits really, but the actual engineering term is the 'Metacentric height'. It's a bit different in marine terms than the CG we are used to in aviation. Because a ship sits upon a body of water, and not in the body of air like a plane, the metacenter is more important.

I'm not a marine engineer, but I recall this from some design study I did when I was adding a tower to a small pleasure boat way back. My metacenter moved up about 3 inches, which wasn't a problem in the overall design goal. If the metacenter in this boat was too great, and it reached it's roll period in seas with unrestrained mass, that would be - bad.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The problem with ferries is that in order to facilitate the rapid turn-around at each end, you don't lash the vehicles down like you would on an ocean-going car carrier.

It is a design of necessity. The operator must understand his limitations and drive accordingly.
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I have traveled on car-ferries in norway, sweden and across the british channel. On all the passages that went further than just crossing a fjord, commercial trucks were lashed down.

Over the years, a number of RoRo ferries have turned turtle, usually when operated in waters or in a manner they were not designed for (e.g. leaving port with the vehicle ramp open to have the breeze assist in clearing diesel fumes from the vehicle deck)
 
weilke said:
I have traveled on car-ferries in norway, sweden and across the british channel. On all the passages that went further than just crossing a fjord, commercial trucks were lashed down.
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Haven't done a ferry in Norway or Sweden, but the one I did crossing the English Channel didn't lash.
 
3393RP said:
It is in rather poor taste when someone makes jokes about 285 kids drowning.
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Military pilots along with a sh*tload of others who engage in less than safe activities most all turn to black humor to relieve stress or to help them cope with catastrophic events in their lives.

Deal with it.

-John
 
Henning said:
Ft Lauderdale, a few weeks from heading to Genoa.
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Genoa, Nebraska? Sweet! Let me know when you'll be there. Ain't much of a town, but they do have a nice grass field. Practice up on your soft field landings, April showers have set in. ;)


:rofl:
 
John Baker said:
Military pilots along with a sh*tload of others who engage in less than safe activities most all turn to black humor to relieve stress or to help them cope with catastrophic events in their lives.

Deal with it.

-John
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I doubt those commenting are military pilots on the front lines. But it could be they are blowing off steam after dealing with the stress of flying a Cherokee 140, an activity fraught with danger.

Or maybe your comment is just nonsense.
 
3393RP said:
I doubt those commenting are military pilots on the front lines. But it could be they are blowing off steam after dealing with the stress of flying a Cherokee 140, an activity fraught with danger.

Or maybe your comment is just nonsense.
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I have a friend who is a retired navy fighter pilot, he engages in black humor. Another friend who is an ex paratrooper, so does he. Another friend who is retired deputy sheriff, uses black humor, I use it as well, not because I flew a Piper Warrior, but from my military years. Once it has been a part of your life for any length of time, it stays with you for life.

What exactly is it that you think is nonsense?

-John
 
John Baker said:
Military pilots along with a sh*tload of others who engage in less than safe activities most all turn to black humor to relieve stress or to help them cope with catastrophic events in their lives.
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A lot of people do juvenile, stupid, idiotic things. It doesn't excuse appalling behavior.

There are better ways to relieve stress or cope with loss than being a complete @ss.
 
Bob Noel said:
A lot of people do juvenile, stupid, idiotic things. It doesn't excuse appalling behavior.

There are better ways to relieve stress or cope with loss than being a complete @ss.
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A " complete @ss" is the captian of that ferry who was down in his stateroom doing god only knows what and leaves a young female, who has NEVER steered a ship in her life, at the helm and she procedes to kill 300+ kids...

That sir, is the true defination of an ASS... IMHO..

What is even worse is... Most, if not all the crew excaped and left the poor kids to drown...
 
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