knowledgeable peeps please....

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by eman1200, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    and Tom too..........(JK dude).

    can anyone guess what the symptoms cause by this might be?

     
  2. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,292
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Theisen
    No help, but that made me have to pee. :)
     
    RDUPilot, CJ Rader, paflyer and 4 others like this.
  3. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,843
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Drake the Outlaw
    Lean cylinder.
     
  4. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,432
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg
    By definition if you're guessing you're not knowledgeable, so I'd guess rough running with all that turbulating going on.
     
  5. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    I know exactly how it’s running, just want to see if it lines up with what other people have experienced.
     
  6. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,432
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg
    I'm too lazy/tired to splain what I meant but I wasn't referring specifically to you. Interesting vid eman...curious to see the outcome.
     
    eman1200 likes this.
  7. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    Klamth Fall, OR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Smith
    Test all the injectors and that way you will know what is a normal flow/pattern and what is not.
     
  8. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    15,780
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I ultrasound (clean) my injectors if there is any suspected problem.
    Has resolved a few issues over the years.
    If not sure it's the injectors, do your test with them removed.
     
  9. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    Failure to achieve full throttle?

    I must admit, though, I am not a knowledgeable peep.
     
  10. skiermike

    skiermike Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    45
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skiermike
    Non-mechanic here. What are we looking at? Are those the injector nozzles, and is that really how fast fuel is pumped into the engine? Wow.
     
  11. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,931
    Location:
    KLAF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    455 Bravo Uniform
    Is this the cause of your RPM/power issue?

    Have you swapped parts with another cylinder's fuel parts to narrow it down?
     
  12. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,307
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    Taking videos with the phone in portrait orientation IS the symptom.
     
  13. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    mechanic said he moved the nozzle to all four lines with the same results at each. but the problem has been intermittent, making it very hard to diagnose. new nozzle has been ordered, time will tell.
     
  14. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    yep, I'll kick him in the shins for you.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  15. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Stumble when advancing throttle.
     
  16. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    big time stumble but only occasionally. like after an extensive and flawless runup as I'm tearing down the runway. looking forward to getting that fixed!
     
  17. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    9,473
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Prostate trouble..????
     
    denverpilot and mscard88 like this.
  18. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,589
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Low manifold pressure?
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  19. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    problems with my dingle-dangle
     
  20. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    22,848
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    And he's worried the pee tubes on the other thread were too small for him....
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  21. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    13,399
    Location:
    North Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    6PC
  22. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,155
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Probably going to prove to be a good decision to change the nozzle. But just out of curiosity did your mechanic soak the nozzles in MEK or acetone to clean them before running the test?
     
  23. F01LA

    F01LA Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    522
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    5446
    Peeps.jpg

    I'm sorry, was someone looking for knowledgeable Peeps?
     
  24. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Just a side curiosity. Is that fuel? MoGas? Doesn’t look blue.
     
  25. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    11,150
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
    Piece of debris inside fuel nozzle that gets sloshed around causing intermittent issues.
     
  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,336
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Ya might get some more answers if you move this from Flight Following to Maintenance.
     
  27. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    cone of confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KPTK
    I see two possibilities. Either one nozzle is restricted by a foreign object or the other does not have the proper orifice installed. The Lycoming nozzles are not one piece, and if the orifice is missing they will allow more fuel to one cylinder. I would have to see the process in person and compare flows to the other cylinders.
     
  28. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    well I did ask if it makes sense to replace all 4 nozzles at once instead of just one. at that time, based on the tests he performed, he said just the one should suffice. but if this turns out to finally fix the issue, now I now that replacing those nozzles is relatively cheap and an easy fix.
     
  29. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,307
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    Would this be an opportune time to install GAMIjectors?
     
  30. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    it was def a thought but it came down to not having an engine monitor that pushed me towards not doing it now. well that plus the recent expenses of the purchase plus this issue. but def a thought.
     
  31. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,307
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ari
    Seems reasonable. I have an engine monitor and love it, even without balanced injectors. If you do install an engine monitor later, make sure to include the fuel flow option. That wasn't done on my plane and I wish it had been.
     
  32. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,784
    Location:
    Statesville NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grum.Man
    There isnt much to those nozzles. I would expect there is a visual difference there. Did the airplane sit for an extended period?
     
  33. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    the last owner flew it 60-80 hours a year for the last 5 years but before that it sat a lil.
     
  34. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,032
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    It looks like a fire waiting to happen.
     
  35. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,589
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Probably a stupid question or I missed it, but I’m guessing the new mags didn’t cure it?
     
  36. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    nope. which is always a fun conversation between a mechanic who swore the mags were toast and would resolve the issue and the owner who just spent a fkton of money on new mags which didn't fix the issue.
     
    mscard88 and Ryanb like this.
  37. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    23,207
    Location:
    Paola, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iBanYou
    This is the internet. Since when I am knowledgeable on the internet? ;)

    What really matters when you do this test is seeing how quickly each nozzle fills up the individual cup. I couldn't tell from the video, but it actually looked like the first nozzle had a lower flow rate than the 2nd nozzle, but the 2nd one did have a more erratic flow pattern.

    A more erratic flow pattern can cause a rough idle, but at power (and ROP) won't necessarily be as noticeable. A low flow rate on one injector is a problem, though, as that will lean out one particular cylinder. On an angle valve 360, you can actually get into detonation if the conditions are right, so that would be a concern.

    While GAMIs work very well on Continentals, my personal experience on Lycomings is that they haven't done all that much. Now, some disagree with me, so again my statement based only on my personal experience.

    I would take all 4 injectors out and soak them in Hoppes for an hour or two, then clean them off with brake cleaner and put them back in and fly it. Although the recommendation is to do this every 100 hours or so, I've found a number of mechanics (or owners) never do this step. It makes a difference. My bet is that after you do this, it will run better. Here's my personal story that convinced me on the benefit of injector cleaning.

    My Aztec (like other legacy aircraft with mechanical fuel injection) had a "fuel flow" gauge that was actually based on pressure to the fuel distributor. As you know, a clogged injector will raise pressure in the fuel system since you're reducing the outlet flow rate, and in such a system will produce increased fuel flow. My Aztec had a fuel flow gauge like this:

    [​IMG]

    Theoretically on takeoff both engines should be around 24 GPH. When I first bought it, one of the engines (I think the left) the needle went past redline and ended up about on the number 18 for the other side engine. The other engine went up around to redline. My mechanic insisted that the gauge was faulty, and I didn't really know enough at the time to argue with him, nor did I know enough to know what the performance of the plane really should be.

    Fast forward a few months and I decided that I should clean the injectors since Lycoming says you should, even though my mechanic disagreed. So pulled all 12 injectors (6 per side), and soaked them in Hoppes for an hour. The Hoppes turned BLACK and you couldn't even see the injector in it, this was the case for all 6 injectors on the one side. The other side wasn't quite as bad, but was still pretty bad. After it was done I put everything back together and did once around the patch. Both engines went up to 24 GPH on the fuel flow gauge, and the thing felt like it had gained 100 HP on takeoff. The one side was so bad that I'm pretty sure it was running LOP at takeoff power. That said, it still ran smooth. The 6-cylinders (especially on twins) tend to run a lot smoother.

    Summary: Clean your injectors.
     
  38. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    23,207
    Location:
    Paola, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iBanYou
    I haven't been following your issue, but if your mags were old (years and/or hours), this isn't a bad idea to do anyway.

    But sadly, most mechanics I've come across actually aren't very good at diagnosing engine issues.
     
  39. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    mine is the exact opposite. starts and idles perfect, burps coughs and runs rough under power.
     
  40. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    23,207
    Location:
    Paola, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iBanYou
    It can do that, too. Either way, your injectors should be cleaned first step. What also comes to mind is potentially other components in the fuel system.

    I assume your plane has a mechanical fuel flow (pressure) gauge. What are you seeing at takeoff power? How does it compare to redline?