Kinda sold on G1000

[MetalCloud]

So I did a XC with my instructor recently. We were heading westbound at 4500ft and the traffic system picked up an incoming... same altitude, heading almost literally straight for us. It broke into the 2nm circle and we had eyes 100% locked outside looking for the traffic. Saw it in plenty of time... but that dude was less than 50ft above us.

Yeah, that G1000 voice is annoying sometimes.. but that screen was handy. As soon as we saw it on there at the same altitude, we were fixated *outside*

Would I have seen him on my own? Likely. But I wouldn't have expected that since he should have been +/- 1000ft. So the awareness was worth it.

 

[oregonboy109]

That's pretty cool. Can't wait to fly the G1000 next year. I imagine it's helpful in the bay area with the complex airspace and lots of traffic.

 

[Brad Z]

So I did a XC with my instructor recently. We were heading westbound at 4500ft and the traffic system picked up an incoming... same altitude, heading almost literally straight for us. It broke into the 2nm circle and we had eyes 100% locked outside looking for the traffic. Saw it in plenty of time... but that dude was less than 50ft above us.

Yeah, that G1000 voice is annoying sometimes.. but that screen was handy. As soon as we saw it on there at the same altitude, we were fixated *outside*

Would I have seen him on my own? Likely. But I wouldn't have expected that since he should have been +/- 1000ft. So the awareness was worth it.

There are other ways to get onboard traffic without a G1000. Remember there are plenty of aircraft without transponders so you might want to consider keeping your eyes outside looking for traffic all of the time, not just when you get a traffic alert.

 

[MAKG1]

That's pretty cool. Can't wait to fly the G1000 next year. I imagine it's helpful in the bay area with the complex airspace and lots of traffic.

No, it isn't.

It's spotty, and you get better served by VFR flight following and just knowing where the traffic collects (hint: passes and VFR reporting points).

Cross Altamont and you'll lose TIS. Down to Hollister and you'll miss the occasional no-transponder aircraft, especially gliders. And I had the damn thing alert yesterday over taxiway traffic at Palo Alto. The false alarms are a big problem.

It's not hard at all to avoid airspace in the Bay Area with a TAC and eyeballs. 400+ hours, mostly in lightly equipped aircraft, and I've yet to bust airspace.

 

[bikert]

No, it isn't.

Yes it is. It is always better to have the most information you can have. Any kind of traffic system in the cockpit is better than nothing. You're assuming he wasn't on flight following. ASS U ME

 

[RudyP]

Yes it is. It is always better to have the most information you can have. Any kind of traffic system in the cockpit is better than nothing. You're assuming he wasn't on flight following. ASS U ME

Agree with TJ.

And BTW- not all G1000 implementations are TIS. Mine has active traffic and I guarantee you it would pick up 10X more traffic than your eyeballs alone.

 

[Unit74]

So, it really was not the G1000 that made you all gushy over it. It was the TIS B it was receiving, right?

 

[James331]

So I did a XC with my instructor recently. We were heading westbound at 4500ft and the traffic system picked up an incoming... same altitude, heading almost literally straight for us. It broke into the 2nm circle and we had eyes 100% locked outside looking for the traffic. Saw it in plenty of time... but that dude was less than 50ft above us.

Yeah, that G1000 voice is annoying sometimes.. but that screen was handy. As soon as we saw it on there at the same altitude, we were fixated *outside*

Would I have seen him on my own? Likely. But I wouldn't have expected that since he should have been +/- 1000ft. So the awareness was worth it.

The tech is cool, of course eyes are king.

That said I don't understand why you didn't change altitude? I mean you're VFR your box is telling you traffic same altitude and converging, doesn't it take the whole point out of having traffic when you just keep on going fat dumb and happy in a situation like that? Personally I would have dropped 500-1000' and turned 45 degrees or so until I had eyes on him or my box showed him no longer a factor.

 

[denverpilot]

Any device that has to announce that you should stop looking at it and look outside VFR ...

Just sayin.

Could you fly an entire flight with your eyeballs "100% locked outside" in any airplane? How close can you get.

Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

G1000 even easier. It'll beep if the engine numbers get wonky.

Look outside. It's a lovely view. Save looking inside for IFR/IMC.

 

[James331]

Any device that has to announce that you should stop looking at it and look outside VFR ...

Just sayin.

Could you fly an entire flight with your eyeballs "100% locked outside" in any airplane? How close can you get.

Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

G1000 even easier. It'll beep if the engine numbers get wonky.

Look outside. It's a lovely view. Save looking inside for IFR/IMC.

Meh, if used properly it's a great tool, even VMC, situations like low wing descending onto a high wing, spotting traffic to follow below you that's semi blending into terrain, night ops with a plane without much for lights, etc.

Eyes outside, but when I notice something on the box I make sure I have him visual too, otherwise I change altitude and course till I do.

 

[bikert]

Any device that has to announce that you should stop looking at it and look outside VFR ...

Just sayin.

Could you fly an entire flight with your eyeballs "100% locked outside" in any airplane? How close can you get.

Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

G1000 even easier. It'll beep if the engine numbers get wonky.

Look outside. It's a lovely view. Save looking inside for IFR/IMC.

That's just silly Obviously you're not just looking at the screen instead of looking outside. Think of it being another set of eyeballs and possibly much better than your own. You're still looking outside, occasionally looking at the traffic display.

 

[Xscaliber]

I went from steam panel to G1000 and thought wow ! ...I'm liking this, and make no mistake it is great especially IFR but when I look back it made me a lazy pilot when flying VFR I definitely focused more on the glass than outside.

I'm now back flying with steam gauges FF with Stratus, ok I'm not getting ALL the traffic out there but I'm now looking outside and glancing inside instead of the other way round.

 

[MAKG1]

Yes it is. It is always better to have the most information you can have. Any kind of traffic system in the cockpit is better than nothing. You're assuming he wasn't on flight following. ASS U ME

Always? Absolutely not. It is very easy to get swamped with too much information. If you can't digest it, it's noise, and if you're really new (like the OP student pilot), it's a net hazard.

Analyze this tool for what it is, not how pretty it is. It gives you a firehose of information, most of which is irrelevant, and requires significant effort to proficiency. Operating less than proficiently can easily and very rapidly turn into a hazard.

TIS itself gives so many false alarms and limited coverage that it's utility is suspect at best. For example, have you tried any steep turns?

Used properly and proficiently, a G1000 can be moderately helpful. But essential? No. Not even close. Heck, I did two IFR flights last week in unfamiliar LA airspace in a /A Warrior, and somehow, I survived, and didn't even bust PTS.... Just yesterday as safety pilot in a G1000, I watched the PIC screw up glideslope intercept. Which situation would you rather be in?

 

[MetalCloud]

So, it really was not the G1000 that made you all gushy over it. It was the TIS B it was receiving, right?

Exactly right.

The tech is cool, of course eyes are king.

That said I don't understand why you didn't change altitude? I mean you're VFR your box is telling you traffic same altitude and converging, doesn't it take the whole point out of having traffic when you just keep on going fat dumb and happy in a situation like that? Personally I would have dropped 500-1000' and turned 45 degrees or so until I had eyes on him or my box showed him no longer a factor.

I did. As soon as he broke that 2nm circle I dropped 500 feet pretty damn quick.


Guys.... my eyes weren't glued to the screens. When I'm up there, I'm looking for planes the same way I've looked for them in a car since I was a kid.

This happened between Tracy and SUNOL, for the Bay Area folks. I was on flight following but canceled it after Tracy. It took me maybe two seconds to look at the screen after the traffic warning, at which time it was obvious this was a real issue. So from then on, like I said, my eyes were glued outside.

Was thankful for the extra info. Probably saved me a cleaning fee for the plane. lol

It's interesting and a still scary when you think that there are folks up there without transponders, folks that fly that the "wrong" VFR altitudes, etc. So yeah, I prefer to have as much help as I can.

 

[mkosmo]

So, it really was not the G1000 that made you all gushy over it. It was the TIS B it was receiving, right?

Unless it was a brand new Cirrus or Bonanza that supports TIS-B, it was more than likely TIS-A

 

[bikert]

Always? Absolutely not. It is very easy to get swamped with too much information. If you can't digest it, it's noise, and if you're really new (like the OP student pilot), it's a net hazard.

Yeah, you're right. That annoying information about the plane you didn't see is noise and a hazard.

 

[MAKG1]

Yeah, you're right. That annoying information about the plane you didn't see is noise and a hazard.

Fixation is a hazard. That annoying "information" about your own tail being behind you is noise. Information in excess of what you can process is also noise even if it would have been useful in isolation. That's also a hazard because it can prevent you from processing other stuff.

Task and information saturation are very real. Please study up on them before making absolute claims to the contrary.

 

[MAKG1]

Exactly right.



I did. As soon as he broke that 2nm circle I dropped 500 feet pretty damn quick.


Guys.... my eyes weren't glued to the screens. When I'm up there, I'm looking for planes the same way I've looked for them in a car since I was a kid.

This happened between Tracy and SUNOL, for the Bay Area folks. I was on flight following but canceled it after Tracy. It took me maybe two seconds to look at the screen after the traffic warning, at which time it was obvious this was a real issue. So from then on, like I said, my eyes were glued outside.

Was thankful for the extra info. Probably saved me a cleaning fee for the plane. lol

It's interesting and a still scary when you think that there are folks up there without transponders, folks that fly that the "wrong" VFR altitudes, etc. So yeah, I prefer to have as much help as I can.

You said this was dual, right?

Your instructor should know better than to cancel flight following there. At that altitude, you'll pass through the Oakland ILS conga line. The triangle between ALTAM, SUNOL, and CEDES is just about the busiest Class E in the region. And two miles is short for an airliner.

Use flight following until handed off to tower or CTAF, or you're giving up where it's most useful.

 

[James331]

Heck, I did two IFR flights last week in unfamiliar LA airspace in a /A Warrior, and somehow, I survived, and didn't even bust PTS.... Just yesterday as safety pilot in a G1000, I watched the PIC screw up glideslope intercept. Which situation would you rather be in?

...and that was because he had a G1000? Nope.

None of that has jack to do with the panel, just the PIC.

 

[MAKG1]

...and that was because he had a G1000? Nope.

None of that has jack to do with the panel, just the PIC.

Absolutely yes, it was. G1000 has a set of arcane rules about when it does and doesn't intercept glideslope, that are simply not present on less "advanced" aircraft.

 

[jordane93]

Absolutely yes, it was. G1000 has a set of arcane rules about when it does and doesn't intercept glideslope, that are simply not present on less "advanced" aircraft.

When does the G1000 not intercept a glide slope? Are we talking about hand flying or on the AP?

 

[James331]

Absolutely yes, it was. G1000 has a set of arcane rules about when it does and doesn't intercept glideslope, that are simply not present on less "advanced" aircraft.

I got a couple hundred hours on a G1000, never had that issue?

Were you dive bombing it or something?

 

[MAKG1]

When does the G1000 not intercept a glide slope? Are we talking about hand flying or on the AP?

On the AP. And I witnessed GS arm (white) and display the green diamond, but never intercept. We speculated that perhaps the APR key was pressed too close to the capture altitude.

A situation I've seen before is that once on the LOC, the G1000 switches to green and ignores VNAV beyond that, which creates some interesting scenarios if you happen to be above glideslope at the time, or if you happen to see a false glideslope signal prior to the GS intercept point.

Like it or not, this is a VERY complex system, and that complexity trades off against utility. That trade off is a function of proficiency.

 

[MAKG1]

I got a couple hundred hours on a G1000, never had that issue?

Were you dive bombing it or something?

Nope. Level. Had to dive bomb afterward to compensate for the AP.

These thing DO glitch. If you haven't seen one in a few hundred hours, you've been lucky. I've had the AP suddenly wind pitch trim all the way down in PIT mode. Not fun (that time, I was PIC).

 

[Henning]

So I did a XC with my instructor recently. We were heading westbound at 4500ft and the traffic system picked up an incoming... same altitude, heading almost literally straight for us. It broke into the 2nm circle and we had eyes 100% locked outside looking for the traffic. Saw it in plenty of time... but that dude was less than 50ft above us.

Yeah, that G1000 voice is annoying sometimes.. but that screen was handy. As soon as we saw it on there at the same altitude, we were fixated *outside*

Would I have seen him on my own? Likely. But I wouldn't have expected that since he should have been +/- 1000ft. So the awareness was worth it.

Personally I prefer a G-600 driven by a 750. The screen size is well sufficient, and I am by no means a minimalist when it comes to screen real estate, bigger is better, but there is a point of diminishing returns that the G-600 exceeds. I chose it over the Aspen because that screen did not. The larger screen and integrated engine though don't make up for the difference in the interface. The menu driven architecture of the GTN interface is simple and natural to use, it literally took me 15 minutes of poking around to learn to do everything I wanted to, plus it allows me rubberbanding.

I think the best deal on an SR-22 right now is get an old steam panel one wth a fresh chute pack and 1400SMOH around $125k, and spend $60k on G-600-GTN, plus you still have the Avidyne MFD. You end up with a very nice SVT panel Cirrus for $185k.

The saving grace to the G-1000 is the Flight Stream 210. With that you can do the navigation inputs in through an iPad with either the GTN interface with Garmin Pilot, or I think by now, Foreflight as well, but I'm not sure if they have the 'upload' yet.

 

[James331]

Nope. Level. Had to dive bomb afterward to compensate for the AP.

These thing DO glitch. If you haven't seen one in a few hundred hours, you've been lucky. I've had the AP suddenly wind pitch trim all the way down in PIT mode. Not fun (that time, I was PIC).

Meh, APs F' up, that's when you need to kill the automation and fly the plane, the second it's not doing what is should, gotta stay ahead of the aircraft, never let it get to a point to where you have to dive bomb to get BACK onto G/S. Honestly that is a situation to go missed.

 

[jordane93]

On the AP. And I witnessed GS arm (white) and display the green diamond, but never intercept. We speculated that perhaps the APR key was pressed too close to the capture altitude.

A situation I've seen before is that once on the LOC, the G1000 switches to green and ignores VNAV beyond that, which creates some interesting scenarios if you happen to be above glideslope at the time, or if you happen to see a false glideslope signal prior to the GS intercept point.

Like it or not, this is a VERY complex system, and that complexity trades off against utility. That trade off is a function of proficiency.

Were you below the glide slope? In the Cirrus, the glide slope won't capture of you are below it.

 

[bikert]

Fixation is a hazard. That annoying "information" about your own tail being behind you is noise. Information in excess of what you can process is also noise even if it would have been useful in isolation. That's also a hazard because it can prevent you from processing other stuff.

Task and information saturation are very real. Please study up on them before making absolute claims to the contrary.

You really are jumping to all kinds of ASSumptions again. Who said anything about fixation? Is this a problem you are having personally with having onboard traffic? Don't project your own issues onto others. Nobody is saying anything about having eyes glued to the screen. Only you.

 

[Henning]

Nope. Level. Had to dive bomb afterward to compensate for the AP.

These thing DO glitch. If you haven't seen one in a few hundred hours, you've been lucky. I've had the AP suddenly wind pitch trim all the way down in PIT mode. Not fun (that time, I was PIC).

Nothing doesn't glitch, that's why CATIII airlines require a double set of triple redundancy. Each required system has a double redundant mechanical and human glitch resolution system.

 

[bikert]

Nope. Level. Had to dive bomb afterward to compensate for the AP.
.

I recommend you grab an instructor and get some practice in with a G1000. I've got 2000 hours behind a G1000 and have noticed the newbies who THINK they know it will often blame the system rather than themselves when it doesn't behave the way they were expecting. From the various uninformed comments you've made in this thread, I am developing a picture that the G1000 is something you are not proficient in. Never get into a situation where you have to "dive bomb". Watch the AP like a hawk. Be set up for the approach as if you're hand flying it and be ready to take over within seconds of it not capturing. If you do everything right it WILL capture. The only time I had issues with the G1000 was in the first 100 hours and like you blamed it. "Damn thing screwed up again!". No... Just use it properly but be ready.

 

[Turningfinal]

I recommend you grab an instructor and get some practice in with a G1000. I've got 2000 hours behind a G1000 and have noticed the newbies who THINK they know it will often blame the system rather than themselves when it doesn't behave the way they were expecting. From the various uninformed comments you've made in this thread, I am developing a picture that the G1000 is something you are not proficient in. Never get into a situation where you have to "dive bomb". Watch the AP like a hawk. Be set up for the approach as if you're hand flying it and be ready to take over within seconds of it not capturing. If you do everything right it WILL capture. The only time I had issues with the G1000 was in the first 100 hours and like you blamed it. "Damn thing screwed up again!". No... Just use it properly but be ready.

I agree with this.

 

[Henning]

I agree with this.

Not only that, but it doesn't just apply to G-1000, it applies to any autopilot no matter how you supply it data, I don't care if it's a Wing Leveler or GFC-700, you watch it at all times. Most of the time autopilots cause me more stress than hand flying, when I get in a plane that has one not already tagged 'InOp'.

 

[Velocity173]

Yep, our AP lasted maybe 500 hrs. Failed in flight and the aircraft pitched abruptly. AP failure on a helicopter is a big deal.

 

[Henning]

Yep, our AP lasted maybe 500 hrs. Failed in flight and the aircraft pitched abruptly. AP failure on a helicopter is a big deal.

Yikes, I can imagine, wrong machine and you loose a tail.

 

[MAKG1]

I recommend you grab an instructor and get some practice in with a G1000. I've got 2000 hours behind a G1000 and have noticed the newbies who THINK they know it will often blame the system rather than themselves when it doesn't behave the way they were expecting. From the various uninformed comments you've made in this thread, I am developing a picture that the G1000 is something you are not proficient in. Never get into a situation where you have to "dive bomb". Watch the AP like a hawk. Be set up for the approach as if you're hand flying it and be ready to take over within seconds of it not capturing. If you do everything right it WILL capture. The only time I had issues with the G1000 was in the first 100 hours and like you blamed it. "Damn thing screwed up again!". No... Just use it properly but be ready.

Honestly, I should grab an instructor because SOMEONE ELSE screwed up? I wasn't PIC, as I said.

You also have trouble with other reading. I said the G1000 has traps, and provided multiple examples. How is that wrong? It does. The OP is a student pilot. The PIC in that flight went up with a safety pilot specifically because he's spent most of his flight time on other glass panels, and felt proficiency was an issue.

Dang. Read what I actually said. It can be a hazard under some circumstances, especially where proficiency is a question. I objected to the statement that more information is always better. It is not always better.

 

[MAKG1]

Were you below the glide slope? In the Cirrus, the glide slope won't capture of you are below it.

Other way around. You have to be below the glideslope to capture, and we were.

 

[MetalCloud]

I'm glad I had it.

 

[bikert]

Honestly, I should grab an instructor because SOMEONE ELSE screwed up? I wasn't PIC, as I said.

Uh, if you were dive bombing to catch your glide slope then hell yes you need to grab an instructor and fix whatever it is you're doing.

 

[bikert]

Other way around. You have to be below the glideslope to capture, and we were.

So were you below it before or after you "dive bombed" it

 

[mkosmo]

Sounds like he was below, armed gs capture, it missed and failed to capture so they blew thru gs.. Now he's above and drive bombed it because they didn't notice the failure to capture gs quickly enough.