Keying the mic in response to ATC

Do you ever key the mic in response to ATC

  • I always key the mic, let ATC figure it out; that's what they are paid for.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I key the mic under certain circumstances.

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • I never key the mic.

    Votes: 49 40.8%
  • Are you crazy?

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • I don't have a mic but I can waggle my wings.

    Votes: 1 0.8%

  • Total voters
    120
OK, here is one. You are leaving the local Class Delta VFR for the practice area. At some point, the tower says "8 Juliet Tango, frequency change approved. Have a nice day." Click Click. I think that might be a place where that CFI I mention would do it. Personally I think saying "8 Juliet Tango" takes only a second longer. The CFI was retired AF Lt. Col., Vietnam-era. Perhaps that factors in.
 
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When it comes to brevity, nothing is faster than saying nothing at all.:D
 
I key the mic. Picked it up from a few instructors. For an airspace as busy as it is in the North East I think it is efficient. I would have to disagree with those of you who say it is useless. As a previous post mentioned this thread is proof of the fact that it is a effective form of communication.

Perhaps it may not be regulation but may things were once not regulation and now are. That is the wonderful thing about aviation I feel we really are out to learn and actively improve our skills.

Clearly there are times when keying the mic is appropriate and there are times when it is not. From what I've read everyone here seems to have a pretty good understanding of that.

For those of you that argue that the FAA only requires we know english for communication I don't agree. We are also required to know light gun signals, we are required to be able to understand morse code, and may other "languages" or jargon that are developed within the field.

Just my 0.02.

You got the FAR or AIM reference for all the other languages and jargon requirements we're supposed to know?
 
You got the FAR or AIM reference for all the other languages and jargon requirements we're supposed to know?
I've got a midland 19ch CB radio in the pawnee. Being the trend setter that I am, I'm sure you'll all follow suit soooner or later. I haven't seen the 10-codes pop up in the aim but I expect to see a revision any day now.
 
I've got a midland 19ch CB radio in the pawnee. Being the trend setter that I am, I'm sure you'll all follow suit soooner or later. I haven't seen the 10-codes pop up in the aim but I expect to see a revision any day now.


" . . . with my rednecks, white socks and blue ribbon beer.";)
 
Bull, it conveys plenty of information.

About the only time I use it with ATC is the short final wind check, but on CTAF the double clicks are rather common.

Not to people who have NEVER heard of such a thing. Many would assume that someone heard what I said but hadn't decided what they thought of it and just decided not to say anything, or someone else had accidentally bumped a mike, or perhaps someone was trying to turn on runway lights. How many instructors teach the technique? There may be many but I just know none of mine did and I'm feeling that is not an unusual thing. It should be noted that my original flight instructor was an FAA ATC, so he probably pounded clear, standardized communication into my head a little harder than others might have.
 
When it comes to brevity, nothing is faster than saying nothing at all.:D
This is absolutely true I think, though I admit that just the other day I click-clicked a wind change on short final. I feel more than a little guilty about it.
 
This is absolutely true I think, though I admit that just the other day I click-clicked a wind change on short final. I feel more than a little guilty about it.

Wasted emotion. I promise the controller didn't spend a nano second worrying about it.
 
Double clicks and tail number only readbacks were a lot more prevalent thirty years ago. It's interesting to note that with fewer aircraft in the air nowadays we've got a little more frequency congestion what with all the required full readbacks now.
 
I promise the controller didn't spend a nano second worrying about it.
And neither should anyone else. I can't believe this is actually controversial. Oh wait, yes I can.
 
Can I assume that the "crazy" votes refer to keying the mic? Or do they refer to me in general. LOL
 
Unsolicited wind advisories from tower on short final with no N# specified, require no acknowledgemt by the pilot.
 
Unsolicited wind advisories from tower on short final WITH a N# specified require no acknowledgement by the pilot.
 
You got the FAR or AIM reference for all the other languages and jargon requirements we're supposed to know?

Chapter 4 - Section 2.
Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0402.html#aim0402.html.1

List plenty of other languages persay that we are to use. Perhaps these things aren't written out clearly in the FAR's but they go beyond saying and are in understanding.

AIM 4-2-1-B:

"The single, most important thought in pilot‐controller communications is understanding. It is essential, therefore, that pilots acknowledge each radio communication with ATC by using the appropriate aircraft call sign. Brevity is important, and contacts should be kept as brief as possible, but controllers must know what you want to do before they can properly carry out their control duties. And you, the pilot, must know exactly what the controller wants you to do. Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across. Pilots are to maintain vigilance in monitoring air traffic control radio communications frequencies for potential traffic conflicts with their aircraft especially when operating on an active runway and/or when conducting a final approach to landing."

The chapter also mentions more than a few times that our judgment should be used to not congest the frequencies.

"Use discretion; do not overload the controller with information unneeded or superfluous."
 
The only times I use the double click is when ATC specifically gives me the winds on short final, or to end a 'thank you' 'no thank you' type exchange with ATC or anther plane.

Any time there needs to be a real acknowledgement, I at least read back the last three of my tail number.
 
Chapter 4 - Section 2.
Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0402.html#aim0402.html.1

List plenty of other languages persay that we are to use. Perhaps these things aren't written out clearly in the FAR's but they go beyond saying and are in understanding.

AIM 4-2-1-B:

"The single, most important thought in pilot‐controller communications is understanding. It is essential, therefore, that pilots acknowledge each radio communication with ATC by using the appropriate aircraft call sign. Brevity is important, and contacts should be kept as brief as possible, but controllers must know what you want to do before they can properly carry out their control duties. And you, the pilot, must know exactly what the controller wants you to do. Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across. Pilots are to maintain vigilance in monitoring air traffic control radio communications frequencies for potential traffic conflicts with their aircraft especially when operating on an active runway and/or when conducting a final approach to landing."

The chapter also mentions more than a few times that our judgment should be used to not congest the frequencies.

"Use discretion; do not overload the controller with information unneeded or superfluous."

Your AIM reference contradicts your previous statement. The PCG isn't another language or jargon, it is a reference for common aviation comms. There aren't other languages that we are required to know outside of English. It's the official language of ATC no matter what country you fly out of. Also your reference knocks down your previous statement about requirement of knowing jargon. The AIM specifically states that jargon or "CB" has no place in ATC comms. If you want to use the double click, fine, but don't try and say it's a requirement to know because it isn't.
 
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If you want to use the double click, fine, but don't try and say it's a requirement to know because it isn't.

I think YMMV. I hear double-clicks, from both pilots and ATC, on my local Approach freqs all the time...sometimes every few minutes.

The good news is, when used that frequently, a listener can quickly figure out from context what a double-click means.

Re: "Double-clicks convey no information whatsoever," that's true...if "you're welcome" after a "thank you", or "goodbye" also conveys exactly no information.

I think it's more accurate to say "it's absolutely not required". No planes would fall out of the sky without a double-click. But the concept of a quick "thanks / you're welcome" after a service has been done and "goodbye" to terminate a conversation is a part of our culture that's not captured very well by the FAR / AIM docs.
 
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I think YMMV. I hear double-clicks, from both pilots and ATC, on my local Approach freqs all the time...sometimes every few minutes.

The good news is, when used that frequently, a listener can quickly figure out from context what a double-click means.

Re: "Double-clicks convey no information whatsoever," that's true...if "you're welcome" after a "thank you", or "goodbye" also conveys exactly no information.

I think it's more accurate to say "it's absolutely not required". No planes would fall out of the sky without a double-click. But the concept of a quick "thanks / you're welcome" after a service has been done and "goodbye" to terminate a conversation is a part of our culture that's not captured very well by the FAR / AIM docs.

Sure, I hear it all the time as well. I'm not saying it isn't common. It is.
But it's not common enough and not officially accepted to use it as an acknowledgement for an instruction. I don't see "have a good day" as an instruction so I have no problem with a double click in response for that.
 
Sure, I hear it all the time as well. I'm not saying it isn't common. It is.
But it's not common enough and not officially accepted to use it as an acknowledgement for an instruction. I don't see "have a good day" as an instruction so I have no problem with a double click in response for that.

I once got clicks when I transmitted on the wrong frequency and quickly followed up with "{my callsign} disregard". Obviously there was no response required, but it was nice to know that ATC acknowledged that the transmission was in error and that I wasn't trying to contact them. They COULD have said "{my callsign} roger" or not responded at all.
 
Do you ever just key the mic in response to something from a controller? Under what circumstances? Do you just key it once?

Belated note to everyone, but it appears to be a technical violation of FCC regulations to key the mic because every transmission must contain the station identification.

For aircraft stations, these are the identification rules, which should look familiar (from http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...8&view=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.2.3.95.11&idno=47):

Title 47: Telecommunication
PART 87—AVIATION SERVICES
Subpart C—Operating Requirements and Procedures
§ 87.107 Station identification.

(a) Aircraft station. Identify by one of the following means:
(1) Aircraft radio station call sign.
(2) The type of aircraft followed by the characters of the registration marking (“N” number) of the aircraft, omitting the prefix letter “N.” When communication is initiated by a ground station, an aircraft station may use the type of aircraft followed by the last three characters of the registration marking. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, an aircraft being moved by maintenance personnel from one location in an airport to another location in that airport may be identified by a station identification consisting of the name of the company owning or operating the aircraft, followed by the word “Maintenance” and additional alphanumeric characters of the licensee's choosing.
(3) The FAA assigned radiotelephony designator of the aircraft operating organization followed by the flight identification number.
(4) An aircraft identification approved by the FAA for use by aircraft stations participating in an organized flying activity of short duration.
EDIT:
Someone will point out that the above doesn't actually say every transmission must contain a station ID; the correct FCC reg for that is this rule:

Title 47: Telecommunication
PART 2—FREQUENCY ALLOCATIONS AND RADIO TREATY MATTERS; GENERAL RULES AND REGULATIONS
Subpart D—Call Signs and Other Forms of Identifying Radio Transmissions
§ 2.301 Station identification requirement.

Each station using radio frequencies shall identify its transmissions according to the procedures prescribed by the rules governing the class of station to which it belongs with a view to the elimination of harmful interference and the general enforcement of applicable radio treaties, conventions, regulations, arrangements, and agreements in force, and the enforcement of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and the Commission's rules.
 
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Well that settles it. Never doing that again!
 
No, I was taught to triple-click to be sure they knew I was the captain, then four clicks if ATC didn't respond to the first two.

Heh heh. How many clicks for the guy who takes over after the Captain had the fish? ;)
 
That's an intercom call to the FA: "Come up here and help me get this dead SOB out of MY seat."

Heh heh. How many clicks for the guy who takes over after the Captain had the fish? ;)
 
That's an intercom call to the FA: "Come up here and help me get this dead SOB out of MY seat."

My text message ring tone on my iPhone is the airliner doorbell chime. Drives flight crew friends batty if I get a text in their earshot. Or people subjected to weekly airline travel. They all go through the same process of recognition of the sound subconsciously first, not really figuring out where it came from, then realizing what it was, then looking around for it, finally asking "Was that your phone?" Heh.
 
That's an intercom call to the FA: "Come up here and help me get this dead SOB out of MY seat."
Wayne, you owe me a keyboard. And Diet Dew really stings in the sinuses.
 
;) Do you have any idea how difficult it can be to fly the plane with one hand while you're using the other one to exchange shoulder boards with a guy who's all slumped over in the left seat?



Wayne, you owe me a keyboard. And Diet Dew really stings in the sinuses.
 
;) Do you have any idea how difficult it can be to fly the plane with one hand while you're using the other one to exchange shoulder boards with a guy who's all slumped over in the left seat?
That would only be a factor if what killed him was the shock of seeing the AP disengaged.

:rofl:
 
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