Keep me from dying

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by Anon, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I'm not telling him to make better decisions, I'm saying IF your inner voice is telling you you are making bad ones, listen to it. It's not like he doesn't know he's making bad decisions as far as I can see, he's complaining that he goes ahead anyway. Something is not right. Some people actually do have death wishes (cigarette and whiskey makers at some point even added subliminal signals that their product can kill you after they found out smokers and drinkers often had such a death wish).

    If it were me, I'd try and figure out why I wasn't listening to my better judgement, and if I couldn't do it alone, would get myself to a therapist, and ground myself until I found out about it.
     
  2. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Some people tend to go with the riskier decision and some tend to be conservative. It's sometimes hard for one side to understand the other. I think it's better to be somewhere in the middle as far as this is concerned, but I also think it's difficult to go against your personality traits.
     
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  3. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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    Psychology: the fine art of teaching someone to stand on their own feet while they are lying on their back.
     
  4. ralarcon

    ralarcon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "My hazardous attitudes have ended me up in several quite scary situations that somehow I've survived. I know if I keep on going I will end up 6 feet under, but I honestly dont know how to change. It's very hard to do. After all of these situations I think "Wow I should have never been in that situation" and think Ill be more careful next time but it never happens."

    Help?

    I heard Chuck Yeager say; "if you need an AOA indicator to fly, you have no business in a cockpit" as he was climbing into an F15.

    Cheers
     
  5. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    It sounds to me like you're making bad decisions when you feel you're under pressure. One possible solution is to "pre-make" those decisions when you're not under pressure. Your problem is then reduced to merely having the discipline to abide by your own decisions, and if the fear of death isn't enough to make you do that, nothing will.

    That's how go/no-go criteria are supposed to work. You write down all the parameters (winds, visibility, clouds, aircraft condition, etc.) that lead up to a decision of whether or not to fly. Then you make decisions regarding each one of them while you're sitting safely at home with no time pressure or other distractions. In that way you are more likely to make decisions that are rationale and safe.

    When it's time to fly, there really aren't decisions to make; just assessments of the criteria you've already established. "Is wind greater than XX knots? Yes. No-go."

    Whenever my company is planning a major test, say a flight of a cruise missile, we bring in stakeholders and subject matter experts and establish go/no-go criteria with clear thresholds. This is done days or weeks before the flight while there is still time to gather additional data if necessary. That way the test team in the field, who are often tired and under stress, are not faced with tough decisions. The decisions have already been made in the most informed manner possible. God help the test team that launches against a no-go condition.
     
  6. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    This thread brings to mind a somewhat broader point regarding flight training in general. Bear with me for a moment.

    One of my other hobbies is cave diving. Cave diving training is extensive and arduous, and the activity makes use of checklists and other procedures similar in form to flying. One of the first pioneers in developing the training and writing the early manuals was a friend of mine. He held a master's in physics from Purdue and he had been a USN fighter pilot. He used his flying experience to help develop the early methods and training syllabus for cave divers. (Sadly, he was murdered some years ago.)

    When I was taking my cave diving classes, one saying that was drilled into my head by my instructor was "Any diver can call off any dive at any time for any reason." Dive buddies don't argue, or even question seriously, such a decision. Sometimes a diver will call a dive "just because I had a bad feeling." No questions - if something seems bad or off-norm a bit, you abort.

    I wish flight training would adopt a similar mantra. I've done so for myself, and if there's anything I don't feel is right about the plane, the weather, or just the rumbling in my stomach, I won't fly. Period.

    I think making that same attitude common in GA training and flying would be a good idea.
     
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  7. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    THAT sounds kinda kinky, I like that in a woman. ;) :D
     
  8. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Nah, you would be the one I was yelling at... and not in a nice way. ;)
     
  9. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh, I thought you were referring to the back seat at a drive-in. My bad. :)

    You'd really yell at me? :confused2: :eek2:
     
  10. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    In my younger days, no doubt. Some out there (but probably not here) remember those days. ;)
     
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  11. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    That dude already crashed two expensive planes, and flew under a bridge at 500 mph. He's a threat to himself.
     
  12. nauga

    nauga Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Was I the only one to notice he climbed into the back seat? :rolleyes:

    Nauga,
    who has told his story somewhere else
     
  13. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    Someday you won't. It's a self solving problem.
     
  14. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yea plus he crashed that F-104 in that movie that time. :D
     
  15. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    I can believe it, because I was somewhat like that too, a long time ago, and I don't think any of my friends would believe it today. I never yelled at anyone but my anger definitely showed in my driving when someone was holding me up by driving stupidly, and in hindsight some of the things I did were reckless. I've mellowed with age too. I'm still a somewhat impatient driver, I really don't like slowpokes on a 2-lane highway (one of my pet peeves here in VT) and will tail them while preparing to pass and say things about their driving -- and their parentage -- that I wouldn't want them to hear. ;) But I haven't actually done anything reckless in a car in many years.
     
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  16. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I do that too. Drives my wife nuts. She's just as bad though. :)
     
  17. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Even when I was impatient, I never verbalized it. Now that I'm not, it annoys me when people do that, but I don't say anything... ;)
     
  18. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I meant I keep it in my vehicle, other driver doesn't hear. Might be able to read my lips in their rear view mirror though. o_O ;)
     
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  19. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I meant in my vehicle too. Yeah, the time I yelled at them out the window, they might have been able to hear over the traffic noise.

    But 99.9% of the time I'm in my car alone, so I would only be talking to myself...
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I'd disagree
     
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  21. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    That's your right, but I don't think doing that is reckless at all. My car doesn't have the greatest acceleration, and getting close behind them before pulling out to pass improves my chances of not having to abandon the attempt. Roads tend to be very curvy in these parts, and if you miss a chance to pass someone, you are likely to be stuck behind them for several miles.
     
  22. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Nothing you said makes it not reckless behavior.
     
  23. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Your opinion, and it depends on your definition of reckless. Mine implies a combination of carelessness and total disregard for the consequences. I am extremely careful when I do this, in case the driver tramps on his brakes. It may not be something you would do, but that doesn't make it reckless.
     
  24. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Your response indicating that the lack of power in your car and having to wait if you don't, sort of belies the truth. You know it's adding danger to you and the person you tailgate, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. You just feel you are justified in risking your and the other persons safety due to the reasons you mention.
     
  25. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Not true. I mentioned it not because it adds danger (which I don't believe it necessarily does) but because it is certainly rude, and frankly I don't care. I consider holding up traffic by driving well below the speed limit in good weather on roads where only limited passing is possible to be rude. If they were courteous themselves, they would pull over to allow faster traffic to pass - some do, but most don't. In situations where I consider that it adds danger (such as wet or icy conditions), I don't do it.

    By your logic, passing on a two lane highway in the mountains is nearly always reckless behavior. I disagree.
     
  26. SToL

    SToL Pre-Flight

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    Get married, start a family, become responsible for someone other than yourself and see if you still want to act like a reckless teenager. If you do, buy LOTs of insurance.
     
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  27. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  28. JohnAJohnson

    JohnAJohnson Cleared for Takeoff

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    If you aren't responsible for a family, and if don't bring along pax, try not to fly over populated areas and have a good time. Only you can determine your risk level.
     
  29. Explorin

    Explorin Filing Flight Plan

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    Pro tip:

    If you don't tailgate them and stay a few seconds behind, when your able to pass you can accelerate and make a move that requires less time in the opposite lane. Instead of being on their ass, pulling out, accelerating, and barely passing them.

    I live in the mountains and I'm more than familiar with how frustrating it can be to follow a vehicle going well below the speed limit on a two lane road. Just relax and give your self some room. Chances are you know the road and you know where you can pass. So prepare for them by staying back and accelerating when you get to the passing area so that way you pass in the first 1/3 instead of the last 1/3.

    The idea of being right on them with a poorly accelerating car improves your chances is what causes head on collisions or close calls. So stop doing that.
     
  30. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    Funny, the OP hasn't been back. Maybe he already killed himself
     
  31. Anon

    Anon Guest

    Funny.

    Just been watching. Some excellent advice I do intend to use. Some not so much. Some regular PoA.
     
  32. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    Never thought I would see a thread titled "keep me from dying" on POA. Yet here we are.
     
  33. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  34. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Regarding flying or passing a car on a mountain road?
     
  35. silver-eagle

    silver-eagle En-Route

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    My guess is you rent and don't own. I cannot imagine anyone with serious skin in the game having such a cavalier attitude otherwise. There were some great suggestions above. Let me add more. Get an older CFI with some military or commercial experience and fly with them exclusively for 5 flights. Learn from them the appropriate course of decision making.
    Another suggestion is to get an aerobatic rating. Maybe what you're missing is the thrill and excitement you had on that first flight.
    Your risk taking has consequences. Think about how your family and friends might handle your injury or death. Or how the NTSB report would condemn your actions.
     
  36. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    "KEEP ME FROM DYING"

    why?
     
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  37. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Even if you think the OP is a troll, I think the jokes are inappropriate.
     
  38. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Welcome back.
     
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  39. silver-eagle

    silver-eagle En-Route

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    my Dad used to say "Keep your yap shut and let them think you're an idiot. Don't go shooting it off and remove all doubt."
    All I can say is the first three responses set the tone for at least half the replies. It's a forum to learn by and from. What I've learned is if you cannot say something nice, then just be quiet.
     
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  40. Anthony8822

    Anthony8822 Filing Flight Plan

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    I just can't quite understand this from a psychological standpoint. If you're intensely aware of the behavior, why can't you change it? That sounds like something you'd need (potentially medical jeopardizing) professional help with. But that's the problem with aviation: sometimes the FAA's cure for an easily fixable problem is to ban everyone with the problem from flying.