corjulo
Line Up and Wait
Keith Lane said:
I read this morning both countries have offered help. The French have particularly strong ties to the area. I expect you will see equipment for providing water getting top priority
Katrina
- Thread starter Steve
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I read this morning both countries have offered help. The French have particularly strong ties to the area. I expect you will see equipment for providing water getting top priority
corjulo
Line Up and Wait
gibbons said:
I don't think that's a fair statement. We don't need money or aid we need logistical support and I read this morning it is already being offered.
corjulo
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bbchien said:
There's always some of that. But this situation, if handled right, could be a model response. You're right, but thing were learned from the tsunami that the navy will put to use here.
Yes, there been looting but a lot of it was to get food and water. The police are ignoring those situations and concentrating on the obvious dirt bag with a box of iPods. They must restore order and if that means marshal law then so be it.
I only wish there was something I could do to help. I found out this morning my cousin has lost her house but she is safe.
Louis Armstrong International Airport is open for daytime humanitarian flights.
Bill
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corjulo said:
I was going to fly a couple of hours over the long weekend, instead, I sent that money to the Red Cross for relief efforts.
gkainz
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from my brother, who works for an oil spill response company...
"Photo of some of the damage offshore is attached...This particular picture is of Shell’s Mars deepwater platform, one of the first deepwater platforms in the Gulf of Mexico...."
"Photo of some of the damage offshore is attached...This particular picture is of Shell’s Mars deepwater platform, one of the first deepwater platforms in the Gulf of Mexico...."
Note the attached picture- Lakefront (KNEW) has emerged (mostly) from the water; looks like both 18/36 runways are out of the water, the xwind is still in the juice.
Ken Ibold
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Ken Ibold
My wife works for a large grocery chain. Today FEMA called her up, commandeering all available refrigerated trucks in Louisiana and Mississippi ... to use as morgues. They are also commandeering all of the company's grocery stores and gas stations, which is fine simply because it's not so ghoulish.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
===================================================Ken Ibold said:
Geesh Ken. From what I'm reading there are only 100 known dead. How many morgue trucks would they need? Are they anticipating thousands or are the dead spead over a wide area where a lot of trucks would be needed?
All the stores in two states or just in certain areas. Is the owner eventually compensated for this in some manner if these are working facilities?
Crazy!!
Dave
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Ken Ibold
The mayor of N.O. is now estimating "hundreds if not thousands dead" in N.O. alone. Hope he's wrong!Dave Siciliano said:
wsuffa
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Ken Ibold said:
I hope he's wrong, but I'd bet otherwise.
Rescue workers have pushed "hundreds" of bodies off to the side while looking for survivors.
('course we don't know whether any of those floated out of cemetaries, as has been known to happen).
wsuffa said:
Bill, I bet with you (and pray I am wrong).
Those most likely to have stayed in NOLA for the hurricane are also the same people who are least able or equipped (materially or mentally) to save themeselves. How many deceased are yet to be found in attics or houses?
New Orleans always traded on its "ghost" heritage; how many more tormented souls now occupy the crescent city?
God Bless each and every.
He had Air Force One fly low over the area:wsuffa said:
John J
Line Up and Wait
It is just overwhelming to think that this has happened in a blink of an eye. I have been through 7 hurricanes in my life and this is just incredible. I do hope the Mayor is wrong about the projected numbers of deaths.
But we will not know for a long time. My heart goes out to all of the people who have lived and suffered through the fury of nature. Like many hundreds of people I send the Red Cross what I can.
Definately this catastrophy will be talked about for many generations to come.
John
But we will not know for a long time. My heart goes out to all of the people who have lived and suffered through the fury of nature. Like many hundreds of people I send the Red Cross what I can.
Definately this catastrophy will be talked about for many generations to come.
John
John J said:
I think it was two blinks:
1) The hurricane, which many survived.
2) The failure of the levies. Which caused the flooding that many did not survive.
The mayor of NOLA is saying he wanted to get resources to the levies but there were so many "cooks in the kitchen" they couldn't get it coordinated. The others wanted to help people.
As I've often said, WHEN we suffer the next attack we can't count on these bureaucrats to make the right moves, no matter how many plans they make or how often they practice.
They say go left - I'm going right.
wsuffa
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mikea said:
Like he actually has any idea of what those people are going through.
(politics=off)
wsuffa
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mikea said:
three:
0) The total lack of preparedness on the part of the "authorities" in this country, who have much less at stake then the affected (well, wait a minute, their jobs depend on things like this).
wsuffa
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Keith Lane said:
Mexico is offering to help... they're sending thousands of people across the border each day....
(sarcasm off)
corjulo
Line Up and Wait
Thanks Steve. Keep us posted if you can
wsuffa said:
Yeahbut, imagine if the mayor or governor said they needed to float a $500 million bond to raise the levies or whatever, you could be sure people would have said, "Hurricane? You panicked over the last one and nothing happened!" You know, the ones who wish they hadn't decided to stay put this time.
In fact there is a report warning that this exact disaster could happen.
Human brains work in funny ways.
Politicians only worry about what could happen in the less than 4 years remaining in their term.
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Ack...city life
SCCutler said:
Cripes, that looks like a marina. Thank God, the rwy is above the waterline. To tell the truth, I love rough wx, but when people have to suffer is where I draw the line. I pray for those souls affected by Katrina.
TangoWhiskey
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gkainz said:
Well, that appears to be a total loss...
Richard
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Ack...city life
bbchien said:
My dear doctor, with much respect to you, your post is too cryptic for me to decipher. What, beyond identifying probabilities, do you suggest we do?
It has been reported that looters were already busy even while Katrina raged.
bbchien
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Richard it will become apparent in just a few days. The Louisiana Medical Society is appealing for retired docs to come help out in a medical center being established in a stadium in Baton Rouge, 81 miles up the road. There's going to be lotsa dysentery. Last time documented epidemic was from cholera in the 1890s and in Bangladeshi in the '68 flood. If it goes on for a while, Tuberculosis. If the bodies aren't dealt with, plague.Richard said:
It's a Mad Max movie. The governor has ordered his troops to cease and desist on SAR and spend all energies on maintaining order.
A Nursing home van commandeered by thugs?!!.
Jeepers they might eventually need Marines.
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wsuffa
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Mike,mikea said:
I'm not just talking about the levees. I'm talking about the feds & locals being unprepared. No mobile hospitals. No contingency plan for what to do if the levees broke. No buses/vans/transport to move the folks who didn't have cars or the folks that were vacationing in NO out before the storm (I have no sympathy for the folks that WANTED to ride it out). How much is it going to cost to get folks out of the Dome NOW (vs arranging buses 3 days earlier and hauling them out before this happened).
They were totally unprepared for this.
Part of the justification for creating DHS and moving FEMA under it was to provide full and coordinated responses to disasters.
God help us if another 9-11 happens.
Richard
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Ack...city life
gkainz said:
Goodness, how do you fix that kind of damage? Who do you send? Holmes & Narver? Brown & Root?
bbchien
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..or Halliburton.Richard said:
Richard
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bbchien said:
I thought B&R is the construction arm of Halliburton. I've had contracts with Brown & Root, their assets are tremendous.
Now there are roving gangs freshly armed with Wal-Mart guns hijacking relief vehicles and shooting at rescue helicopters. One hospital has asked the government to get the whole staff OUT.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-hurr01.html
There's a thread on Fark by folks monitoring the NO police scanner.
There was a fire in the Superdome overnight but the cops told the fire trucks to turn around because they couldn't secure them. There are reports of rapes, crack vials, ...you don't wanna hear about the rest rooms.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-hurr01.html
There's a thread on Fark by folks monitoring the NO police scanner.
There was a fire in the Superdome overnight but the cops told the fire trucks to turn around because they couldn't secure them. There are reports of rapes, crack vials, ...you don't wanna hear about the rest rooms.
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judypilot
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Richard said:
Yeah, lotta good having the rwy above water. So you land the plane. Then what? The area for parking airplanes off the rwys looks pretty soggy to me. No place to put the airplanes.
Judy
bbchien
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Oh, right you are. It's in the annual report...silly me.Richard said:
Sigh. It looks like they are going to need the Marines.
Dave Siciliano
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On the Aero News Network site, they report the Cirrus Owner's Association is organizing owners to fly relief missions from the New Orleans area. They will fly folk home or to family in other parts of the country.
Best,
Dave
Best,
Dave
Richard
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judypilot said:
Judy, that's a good point but I was thinking having at least the rwy open would be of great value to the relief effort. The planes would unload and be on their way. Distribution from that point is not something I considered although men and equipment brought in on planes would be of service. The rwy could be like a new beach head in which to launch the assault.
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mikea said:
Has martial law been yet declared? If not, why not?
wsuffa
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Richard said:
It has.
I heard a report out of Baton Rouge that an armed gang stormed the local hospital looking to feed their drug habit. It is utter lawlessness down there....
Dave Siciliano
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I have a friend in Baton Rouge that said that occurred last night. That the police now have that under control. Unbelieveable!!
Dave
Dave
bbchien
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No, not unbelievable. People are the same everywhere. Despite our training such that we normally line up in queues and tolerate long waits, when it becomes apparent that you're gonna die if you don't do something, you start behaving in various nonstandard ways. Yeah there are thugs, and they oughta be shot if caught on tape and they don't heed warning...particularly the ones interfereing with the evacuation of New Orleans Charity hospital. Shot? Bleeding? Lets see if you survive.Dave Siciliano said:
The part that really got me was the New Orleans Seafood merchant stuck at the superdome who broke into the Superdome kitchen and tried to prepare food. The National Guard threatened to shoot him....but they weren't evacuating anyone.
Not enough buses. Yeah, anyone whose lived through this for 96 hours is gonna realize that. How dumb do they think people are?
Mike A is right to cite Chicago's experience with the wintertime subway crisis that unseated mayor Michael Bilandic. Everyone right up to the Pres watch out, you all will be taking some heat soon. Our bureaucracy didn't do much; guns do not substitute for too little butter/water too late. Reminds me of the accounts of the anachary that broke out with the rape of Nanching China. Women abandoned their children to simply themselves perish at the roadside shortly later. It's HOT HOT HOT. Dehydration and heat stroke. Bodies floating in the water (read River Yangtze). Soon to have tuberculosis, plague, cholera.
About all the volunteer organizations can do is fly docs willing to go to Baton Rouge there- there isn't anybody with skills who's going into New Orleans without armament and a flak jacket and evac resources. The only people who can do that are Marines. The National Guard General who says his troops can't get to the superdome oughta be relieved. The last time I heard that excuse, it was a South Vietnamese general who couldn't get 25 miles up the road to An Loc (took him 9 days). And you can bet the Marine regiment at An Loc was on the radio squawking.
What is needed is leadership a tremendous show of force, and the C130s to start dumping PLENTIFUL supplies off the pallets. Heck we kept many firebases supplied in the face of MORTARS with that technique. If you create plenty then the show of force works.
I think the FEMA chief is history. He ain't done squat.
wsuffa
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Bruce is right. But nobody will hold Chertoff to the fire. Teflon. All of them.
We need a complete sweep of the bureaucracy. Start with the President. "The buck stops there". One reason that the framers of our Constitution intended for common folks to be elected was so they would be in touch with the people. Bush has no clue, no frame of reference. None of them do, but Bush has lived the golden life. I used to work for folks like that, they just plain don't understand what the common man endures.
Even the WSJ, bastion of conservatism, had a page 1 article today about failure of the govt response. That article pointed out that Florida has gotten good response from FEMA/DHS is because of Jeb Bush.
Yet we still hear folks say "they should have evacuated before the storm". People who say that have no friggin clue. New Orleans is one of the poorest cities in the country. Crime rates have been rising. Many of the folks have no cars, no means of transportation, no money to get out. The city and FEMA didn't or wouldn't provide buses.
I'm not surprised at the breakdown. Maslov puts personal survival first. It's ingrained.
Bush calls for contributions (open your wallets), yet the ones who could give the most tend to give in-kind. Corporations give things that don't cost 'em cash, but they take the tax deduction on full value.
The events in New Orleans, and the crushing energy crisis WILL damage this country economically. Mark my words, that, more than anything else, will be the political downfall. When it affects the middle class, it will affect politics. Not until then.
/rant off
We need a complete sweep of the bureaucracy. Start with the President. "The buck stops there". One reason that the framers of our Constitution intended for common folks to be elected was so they would be in touch with the people. Bush has no clue, no frame of reference. None of them do, but Bush has lived the golden life. I used to work for folks like that, they just plain don't understand what the common man endures.
Even the WSJ, bastion of conservatism, had a page 1 article today about failure of the govt response. That article pointed out that Florida has gotten good response from FEMA/DHS is because of Jeb Bush.
Yet we still hear folks say "they should have evacuated before the storm". People who say that have no friggin clue. New Orleans is one of the poorest cities in the country. Crime rates have been rising. Many of the folks have no cars, no means of transportation, no money to get out. The city and FEMA didn't or wouldn't provide buses.
I'm not surprised at the breakdown. Maslov puts personal survival first. It's ingrained.
Bush calls for contributions (open your wallets), yet the ones who could give the most tend to give in-kind. Corporations give things that don't cost 'em cash, but they take the tax deduction on full value.
The events in New Orleans, and the crushing energy crisis WILL damage this country economically. Mark my words, that, more than anything else, will be the political downfall. When it affects the middle class, it will affect politics. Not until then.
/rant off