Just Quit Training

Matthewc66

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matthewc66
I need some advice.

I am in the middle of the cross country phase of my training and I have suspended training.

During this cross country phase I have spoken to dozens of pilots and they all tell me the same thing:

"We all have to do this but you will never use it again" .. He is referring to top of climb, diversions, etc..

I keep asking why do we need to do this if I will never use it again? He keeps telling me that is the way they do it, its the way they have always done it. He is not sure why they do it, knows we won't use it but doesnt want to change.

He uses Foreflight and keeps reminding me that all this training that I am paying for is essentially worthless as I will never use it again.

Truthfully, I think I am "flown out" and am so bored with training right now I can't even look at it.

I would like to find a school that trains with Foreflight so I can learn with what I will use in the cockpit.

I am not sure there are schools like this and I am at the point where I am not going to continue training if I have to do top of climbs all day.

At a cross roads, need some advice..

Matt

Ps I am in North County San Diego near Palomar..
 
I don't use Foreflight and didn't use a VFR aviation GPS until less than a year ago. I think you should learn to fly by pilotage and dead reckoning with a paper chart in your lap because if your iPad runs out of batteries or gets lost/stolen/broken, you can still use the old fashioned tools to get where you're going.

p.s., I have no idea what top of climb really means. :dunno: Is that were you level off at your cruise altitude? :dunno:
 
Are you learning to be an aviator or an iPad user? The iPad is a great tool once you know what you're doing without it. iPad is just one of many possible tools available to a pilot-in-command.

Your brain and what it knows are far more important.

All of the above said, there's no reason training can't be fun. That has more to do with the personalities of the people on board than anything.
 
Well, I don't know what "Top of climbs" are. So probably I don't do that.

Diversions? Happen all the time.

Foreflight? Never use it.

Paper chart with my index finger inching along (digital moving map) - all the time.

Marking down times as I pass roads / towns / whatever? Yup.

Calculations with winds aloft and stuff? Not usually. It's not like you can do anything about them. You get there when you get there.
 
Not sure what you mean by 'top of climbs'.

I'm guessing you mean starting to do nav work. Finding where you are and estimating when you'll be at the next fix? And you want to use ForeFlight instead of sectionals and nav logs?

If that's the case I'd just say that in every profession I can think of education is a series of building blocks. Learning the basic manual way to do something enables you to have a fuller under standing of the magic of the automated / easier shortcut methods employed later.

A NASCAR mechanic starts out on a simpl 2 cylinder engine. He doesn't launch his career learning the automated computers of a racecar engine.

I'm disappointed your CFI hasn't conveyed this to you and found a way to make it fun. I don't see any reason nav love and flight planing couldn't be tied in with Foreflight as a supporting tool, but that's me. Of course I'm only getting half the story and I'm not even sure I understand that half.
 
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p.s., I have no idea what top of climb really means. :dunno: Is that were you level off at your cruise altitude? :dunno:

His school likely has him calculating his waypoint/checkpoint for where his top of climb will be to a particular cruise altitude enroute. Basics.

Which, of course we all have done -- to see how climb speed relates to cruise speed and how much extra fuel we'll burn on the climb out. All things you must know.

After you've flown a particular type for a while you can swag it if you have plenty of gas on board, and probably be within a couple of gallons.

But you need to know how to calculate it nevertheless, for those days when you need the maximum performance out of your craft. You're heavy, it's hot, and you don't want to top off the long-range tanks... you'd better know how to determine why you have a particular less-than-full fuel load.
 
I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated and feel you are wasting your time and money.

Please keep in mind that all of the training we do for Private Pilot is PRE-FOREFLIGHT/IPAD for one thing.

Also, the FAA could care less about Foreflight and the iPad for every day flying.

From another point of view, you are POTENTIALLY training to be a Comemrcial pilot some day as no one knows your particular future plans and the rules/regulations are designed to cover everyone whether flying for a living or not. The aforemetioned regs are intended to put everyone on the same playing field at each certification level so that you have the skills and knowledge when and/or IF you need them.

True, you may never use some of the information and training but you may need it some day. You mentioned top of climb which sounds to me like a fuel calculation. Pilots run out of fuel more often than we want to believe. Diversions are important as you may have engine trouble some day or miscalculate your fuel or sudden weather changes, you might need to divert to another airport. Knowing how to do this could potentially save your life. If you did not practice it, you might make a bad decision instead of a good one.

I am not trying to be tough on your decision or your reasoning. Just know that as I was taught when I was in the Navy in the aviation portion, "Regulations are written in blood." There is a reason for everything.

I agree you may be burned out on the training. Take a break if need be. Ask to fly something different for a change. Try to get your CFI to give you some sort of variation in the training to keep it exciting for you. You shouldn't be repeating every thing a lot unless you are not to standards. If need be, approach your current or another CFI and tell them you are bored and or do not understand why you are doing some of the things you are for training.

Please keep an open mind. You are so close to getting your certificate and I think you might regret not getting that wonderful achievement. I had to separate multi-year periods I could not fly after I got my PPL due to financial reasons. I missed it it badly and always came back. Those years I lost are empty.

Good luck with your decision and I hope you can get back into it. I hope this helps some.

David
 
Sorry you're at a crossroads Matt. XC pilotage/dead recokning works. It did pre GPS/pre foreflight. I did my XC's last Februray. Due to situations beyond my control it took until now to get my checkride in. All of the training comes back to you in a pinch. I had no idea how to even do the xc for the 'ride until I thought back to all of the training. What happens if the batteries do die or the DPE turns off the avionics. You gotta know where you are somehow! What about the training for when you were getting your license? (Do you always park 500 ft behind the red fire hydrant? or whatever it is) Sometimes you get training how to do things that you'll never need again but in a pinch it comes screaming back to you! (Principle of primacy! look it up)

Was with the DPE for the oral/ground portion. He was asking about night flight."How long before you can fly after being in a bright room?" "30 minutes" because that's what the FAA says. In reality it's more like 20 minutes and you have full vision but that doesn't matter the answer is 30...if you want to help the FAA change the rules good luck!

There is a reason only 2% of the population is licensed pilots. It's alot of hoops to jump through. If you're tired of it. Take a break...but if it's in your blood you'll be back!
 
Sorry you're at a crossroads Matt. XC pilotage/dead recokning works. It did pre GPS/pre foreflight. I did my XC's last Februray. Due to situations beyond my control it took until now to get my checkride in. All of the training comes back to you in a pinch. I had no idea how to even do the xc for the 'ride until I thought back to all of the training. What happens if the batteries do die or the DPE turns off the avionics. You gotta know where you are somehow! What about the training for when you were getting your license? (Do you always park 500 ft behind the red fire hydrant? or whatever it is) Sometimes you get training how to do things that you'll never need again but in a pinch it comes screaming back to you! (Principle of primacy! look it up)

Was with the DPE for the oral/ground portion. He was asking about night flight."How long before you can fly after being in a bright room?" "30 minutes" because that's what the FAA says. In reality it's more like 20 minutes and you have full vision but that doesn't matter the answer is 30...if you want to help the FAA change the rules good luck!

There is a reason only 2% of the population is licensed pilots. It's alot of hoops to jump through. If you're tired of it. Take a break...but if it's in your blood you'll be back!

Less than 2%. There are 600,000 pilots and 300 million people.
 
"We all have to do this but you will never use it again" .. He is referring to top of climb, diversions, etc..

I don't recall encountering the term "top of climb" in my own training so I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_of_climb

Ah - yes, I did take that into account in my cross-country flight planning but just never used that term.

I'm guessing that perhaps you have some math-phobia or issues with doing such things in flight like diversion computations? I somehow managed to get a college degree in physics, yet did find recomputing time and fuel and such in the air with the venerable E6B and such tools to be one of the more difficult challenges in my training.

Ground practice at home is the only way I can think of to get practiced at that sort of thing. Learning how to do it should, in theory, provide you a depth of understanding of fuel consumption that will be of value in your later flying that you would presumably not otherwise grasp if you only ever relied on numbers coming out of a computer.

Flying, like a lot of things, isn't for everyone. I suspect you could conquer these issues if you were motivated enough, but that of course is a matter of personal desire.
 
I would like to find a school that trains with Foreflight so I can learn with what I will use in the cockpit.

Foreflight and iPads will be obsolete in a few years. Basic knowledge won't. Quitting sounds like the right choice.
 
Foreflight and iPads will be obsolete in a few years. Basic knowledge won't. Quitting sounds like the right choice.

and then there will be something shinier. You need to know dead reckoning and pilotage so you can get home when your fancy GPS fails. Now, I have 3 different types of navigation available to me in my airplane. GPS, VORs, and the Mk1 eyeball and map. I have 4 GPS, and 2 nav radios. If the GPS goes down, I still have my 2 nav radios, and if I lose electricity I still have My 396/iPad/iPhone. The chances of losing both navigation systems are so small though that you will usually always have atleast one. (I've never had either quit working on me)

However once you follow the Magenta Line of Death enough you will want to go back to pilotage and dead reckoning, because it is so much more fun. Plus if you finish you get to become one of the very few that are certificated pilots, and you will be a certificated pilot until the day you day.
 
I will buy me a Ipad for aviation flying somewhere down the line. I really feel uncomfortable when using a fold out map during cross-country (still in training). I feel like I'm spending to much time refolding map and looking down at it then having my eyes scanning the horizon. Maybe it will come with practice. But i really want one of those ipad leg boards to put on one of my legs. One less thing i have to have cramped up next to me.
 
Matt- Foreflight is a new thing, and one tool. It may not be around forever. I still use the old tools with the new tools on my flights.

What got you into flying? Do you still see whatever got you flying occuring? Can you do it after you get your certificate?
 
Are you learning to be an aviator or an iPad user? The iPad is a great tool once you know what you're doing without it. iPad is just one of many possible tools available to a pilot-in-command.

Your brain and what it knows are far more important.

All of the above said, there's no reason training can't be fun. That has more to do with the personalities of the people on board than anything.


Well Said Nate. I do recall cacluating top of climb when I calculated fuel consumption and time. AOPA RTF and Golden Eagle have it.

Who ever told you you will never use it is incorrect, IMHO. Diversions happen all the time you can figure out the distance and time to a alternate field in less time with your finger or a pencil than you can with an iPad. This is critical with cross country flying and in low fuel and Wx issues.

Yes I use internet flight planning but I belive you need to know the basis behind what Golden Eagle or RTF or WingX or Foreflight is telling you. If you only want to learn to flight plan using Foreflight and your bored because the paper, pen, E6B thing isn't your cup of tea then I hate to say it but aviation may not be for you.

That said I don't think you should be doing top of climbs all day, once you learn the calculations I'd think you only need to do them for your XC flights. Its very hard to judge from a post on a web board what the real issue is. If it is the training method try another flight school or CFI but I don't believe that using fore flight as their main flight planning tool should be a requirement.
 
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Dude, don't mean to be harsh but with that sort of attitude I'm not sure I would want you sharing my airspace.

What other sorts of things do you feel are useless? Maybe learning how to fly the traffic pattern is just a waste, so what the hell.

If you do decide to continue better go buy an extra iPad and Foreflight subscription so you'll be prepared when the first one fails since you won't know where the hell you are or how to get anywhere when that thing goes TU.

Just damn. :(
 
Matt, hang in there. I put up with the same crap with ADF's, NDBs, and all that other crap that I could not tell even what it means. When I was banging out 40 hours the instructor would not allow me to have a GPS in my plane. As soon as I got my license I have never used anything but GPS. I had old timers saying " You wait sonny! GPS is just a fad! :rofl:

If you don't have the fire in the belly anymore it is because you are flying spam cans. Get your butt into an RV and go for a fly.
 
"We all have to do this but you will never use it again" .. He is referring to top of climb, diversions, etc..

[snip]

At a cross roads, need some advice..

My advice: continue your training and stay away from those pilots who told you you will never use it again.
 
....I need some advice.


At a cross roads, need some advice..

Matt

Ps I am in North County San Diego near Palomar..

I see this is your first post..... Welcome to POA.....

I would suggest a sit down with other local pilots and get more feedback.. You have a fair amount of time invested already..So look at this from a different approach and maybe it will change your thinking.
 
Ground practice at home is the only way I can think of to get practiced at that sort of thing. Learning how to do it should, in theory, provide you a depth of understanding of fuel consumption that will be of value in your later flying that you would presumably not otherwise grasp if you only ever relied on numbers coming out of a computer.

Between my GPS & onboard fuel "computer", which work together..............actual fuel consumption has never been more accurate
. I still figure the estimated amounts beforehand, but prefer the precision that electronics have made possible. The fuel managing system was one of the best additions I ever added to the RV.

L.Adamson
 
Haven't done a top of climb calculation since my PP checkride. Could I? You bet. It's not that tough to figure out. If you can't get your mind around how to do the calculations, that's what your CFI is for...or all the reference books out there. Haven't filed a VFR flight plan since my student cross countries. Was it a waste of time learning how to do it? Absolutely not.

You are not going to find a "school that trains with ForeFlight". Look, I love my iPad as much as anybody, and have had it onboard since I was a student. I also use the GPS on nearly every flight out of the local area. But those are NOT integral aspects to learning to aviate at the private pilot level. And whomever told you you will never use diversions again clearly has no idea what they're talking about, unless you plan to never leave the traffic pattern. Even then, what are you going to do if someone fouls the runway while you're aloft?

Honestly, if you are that bored with training or too impatient to want to bother to learn the building blocks, you should probably stop for now. If you find you truly miss flying and it was not just a passing fad, then commit to learning from the ground up, the right way.

And maybe you do need a different CFI, and/or pilot friends with different perspectives.
 
I don't use Foreflight and didn't use a VFR aviation GPS until less than a year ago. I think you should learn to fly by pilotage and dead reckoning with a paper chart in your lap because if your iPad runs out of batteries or gets lost/stolen/broken, you can still use the old fashioned tools to get where you're going.

p.s., I have no idea what top of climb really means. :dunno: Is that were you level off at your cruise altitude? :dunno:

I started using aviation GPS in the latter part of 1993. That's getting close to 19 years. Originally started flying in 1968, when handheld, let alone desktop computers only existed in sci-fi movies.

I know the benefits of GPS, and I see no reason to learn the "old way" first, and then add modern navigation afterwards. There is nothing wrong with learning to use modern avionics at the same time. Schools with modern glass panels will do just that. You'll be more "informed"!

During those past 19 years, GPS has been very dependable. Must be because I use good units, and antenna setups. I also backup the GPS with a 2nd GPS. Never got bored with them, either.

BTW--- still use current charts, and pre-flight planning too.
 
I would like to find a school that trains with Foreflight so I can learn with what I will use in the cockpit.
Let me know if you find such school .....
Then I will know to steer away from it as far as possible.
Nobody is doing diversions? :confused:
I have distinct impression someone is feeding you a lot of BS, perhaps this person is not a professional pilot but rather some video game specialist.
I agree with others, perhaps you should stop now, take cold shower and deliberate what in the hell you are actually doing. And then resume training when you finally understand what aviation is all about and have the right people to teach you basics.
 
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I also use the GPS on nearly every flight out of the local area. But those are NOT integral aspects to learning to aviate at the private pilot level.

Why not? There is now more restricted airspace than ever. ATC can easily tell who has GPS and who doesn't. There is no reason, not to use moving map GPS that readily defines the precise borders of these airspaces. Leaves more time to scan for traffic, birds, etc. And that especially applies to the private pilot level.

L.Adamson
 
Why not? There is now more restricted airspace than ever. ATC can easily tell who has GPS and who doesn't. There is no reason, not to use moving map GPS that readily defines the precise borders of these airspaces. Leaves more time to scan for traffic, birds, etc. And that especially applies to the private pilot level.

L.Adamson

I rarely venture near Class B airspace, the last time i did my GPS went TU (The charger had gone bad and the battery died) I didn't care and I had to make a tight transition, over and between the mountains and right beside Seattle class B to head north to KAWO. I think every PPL candidate should be able to do that without worry, in an airspace they aren't familiar with. Until the FAA accepts "My iPad died" as an excuse to bust airspace, do it with your eyes, confirm with the iGadget.
 
I started using aviation GPS in the latter part of 1993. That's getting close to 19 years. Originally started flying in 1968, when handheld, let alone desktop computers only existed in sci-fi movies.

The planes I rented at the time (2009-2011) were really cheap and didn't have any sort of GPS. Now I have Naviator on my Android phone and one of the planes I fly has a GNS430 and the other one has a KLN-90B.
 
You are not going to find a "school that trains with ForeFlight".

Actually one of the local schools has them very integrated into their curriculum for advanced students, but they're not going to let someone use the gadgets for planning for the Private raring, before they demonstrate they understand it cold on paper and in their heads.
 
After 50+ years at the airport I thought I'd heard all of the training rants, but evidently not. Something (and I suspect more than one something) is clearly off-track here, but if the TOC problem is really the issue it's simple to solve with about 15 minutes of work.

Step one is to check the performance section of the POH or flight planning manual for the airplane being flown. Many of them have the time/distance/fuel burn calculations for climb profiles to various altitudes, as well as the corresponding tables for descents.

If those aren't available a similar chart can quickly be prepared to provide that information in tabular form using a calculator or excel spreadsheet softward. A light airplane will only climb to a relatively few cruising altitudes, and winds will either be neutral, head-wind or tail-wind. Groundspeed calculations will be the same as all others (TAS +/- the head/tail component) TAS and fuel burn/min at climb power will be constant.

With such chart in hand, the answer to any TOC question can be provided by reference to the table and using plotter or chart scale to determine the TOC position for any trip at any altitude.

I share the reservations already expressed about the pilot's short-cut attitude and agree that stopping now might be in his best interest until he figures out the need for fundamentals before progressing to conveniences.
 
Maybe you'll never need to do it again, maybe not.

Maybe all you'll ever do it tool around your local patch, maybe you'll actually go somewhere.

You really need to know the how and why it all works. If you never learn to do it right, you'll never have a clue if all your iPads and GPSs are telling you right thing. Enjoy the XC portions of your training - I always thought that was the best. And, if you are allowed to, do it all with only a chart, compass, VOR, and the nav-log that you fill out by hand. Then when you land, fill the tanks and see just how close you came on your fuel calculations.

My CFI told me almost the same thing - "Once you start flying on your own, you'll probably never do the planning by hand again. But that's no excuse for not learning how."
 
Okay so 31 posts and he hasn't commented again. Wonder what's up with that?!
 
Okay so 31 posts and he hasn't commented again. Wonder what's up with that?!

Sock Puppet? Maybe he gets is rocks off by making an inflammatory post and siting back to watch he fireworks.
 
I use a handheld GPS now and it is much easier than flying the line on a sectional. Simplifies things a lot. But, the reason I fly and have continued to fly is because it is fun. If it isn't fun for you, go ahead and quit. You have the wrong attitude. There is a big difference between an airplane driver and an aviator.
 
I'm a student as well just about ready to take my checkride. All of my friends who follow me and my quest to get my certificate are amazed at how much work it takes to become a pilot. There have been some tough points but I love to fly and meeting the requirements is just something I have to do.

I think you need to ask yourself if you really love flying or if this is just something you got into because you thought it might be cool. Do you love it enough to meet all requirements to obtain that certificate? If you don't then I, like a few others, say quit. You are wasting your time if you're not willing to do what it takes. You are also possibly creating an unsafe flying environment for you and your potential passengers.

What does it take to reach your cruising altitude after departing the airfield? Can you clear that chunk of terrain in front of you at 9000 MSL with current performance outputs of your aircraft? I'll tell you what... Foreflight isn't going to give you that answer. It will draw that magenta line to each and every waypoint even if you've programmed a cruise altitude that will result in controlled flight into terrain. There is nothing magic about the iPad or ForeFlight. You still have to know your stuff.

Suck it up, meet the requirements and become what you have dreamed of becoming... a pilot.
 
Sock Puppet? Maybe he gets is rocks off by making an inflammatory post and siting back to watch he fireworks.

Unlikely - note that he joined PoA in December 2011. Nothing in his post was inflammatory at all - actually just some of the replies were inflammaory!

A simple cry for help understanding the point of some of the things students are still being taught. One of the whole points of having online forums like this, in my humble opinion.

I too had wondered why some procedures are still being taught that were designed back when vacuum tubes were all the rage.
 
I need some advice.

I am in the middle of the cross country phase of my training and I have suspended training.

During this cross country phase I have spoken to dozens of pilots and they all tell me the same thing:

"We all have to do this but you will never use it again" .. He is referring to top of climb, diversions, etc..

I keep asking why do we need to do this if I will never use it again? He keeps telling me that is the way they do it, its the way they have always done it. He is not sure why they do it, knows we won't use it but doesnt want to change.

He uses Foreflight and keeps reminding me that all this training that I am paying for is essentially worthless as I will never use it again.

Truthfully, I think I am "flown out" and am so bored with training right now I can't even look at it.

I would like to find a school that trains with Foreflight so I can learn with what I will use in the cockpit.

I am not sure there are schools like this and I am at the point where I am not going to continue training if I have to do top of climbs all day.

At a cross roads, need some advice..

Matt

Ps I am in North County San Diego near Palomar..

Because you have to know how it works regardless if you are doing the math by hand or not. The reason I don't use a form for it anymore is that I just do the calculations in my head. If you require a machine for your calculations, you are not qualified to be PIC because you lack the requisite knowledge. This is not my opinion either, this is the FAA's opinion as well, that's why all this is required learning and you will have to produce that piece of paper for your examiner before you ever take off on your checkride. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR FLIGHT TRAINING!!!!

Here a bit of perspective on your pilot buddy there: The most common common cause of engine failure in a plane still today is running out of fuel. Your buddy there is primed and ready for this to happen to him. If he's your instructor, get a new instructor. If he's another pilot, use him as an example of how not to think.
 
I need some advice.

I am in the middle of the cross country phase of my training and I have suspended training.

During this cross country phase I have spoken to dozens of pilots and they all tell me the same thing:

"We all have to do this but you will never use it again" .. He is referring to top of climb, diversions, etc..

I keep asking why do we need to do this if I will never use it again? He keeps telling me that is the way they do it, its the way they have always done it. He is not sure why they do it, knows we won't use it but doesnt want to change.

He uses Foreflight and keeps reminding me that all this training that I am paying for is essentially worthless as I will never use it again.

So essentially he's telling you "you are paying me to waste your time."
Hmmm. I don't blame you for being discouraged. :rolleyes2:

I think all of these pilots are just being glib, though... it's like emergency procedures. Unlikely to be needed, but when needed, you have to know them! There's something they don't want to tell you; maybe because they've forgotten.

I got my ticket in '97, when GPS was still pretty exotic stuff, and there was nothing to run Foreflight on in the plane... and no Foreflight. But we had transponders, comm radios, VOR receivers, and even ADFs. Every other flight out of KTEB, I'd be told to "hold over Paterson" while waiting to get back in... guess what I used for my turn point? I knew what Paterson looked like, but it was a lot easier to find that NDB, and I figured that NDB was on the controller's overlay. All that clunky old nav gear was actually very useful, and a guy could get lazy. And LORAN... that was sheer luxury. :D
Even then, I was told that stuff like TOC calculations and figuring VFR diversions on the fly without navaids were probably never going to be needed, especially with the newfangled GPS and Internet tools coming onto the scene, but an understanding of these things could come in handy, just like emergency procedures. Sure, it was also required as per the syllabus, but my instructors made an effort to show me the value of good old-school situational awareness, rather than the "this is pointless but we gotta do it" mentality. They would at least present it as a challenge, to polish my PIC attitude.

Like the TOC thing... yeah, it's a pain in the ass, especially if, like mine, your CFI already has you subtracting 1 gallon off the top for "ground ops, climb, etc". And unless you're climbing very high, it's unlikely that the wind-corrected heading will differ very much from cruise. And even without GPS or any other navaids, in VFR you end up visually correcting for drift anyway. and fuel calculation? Puh-leeze... four hours' endurance, and how many dual flights were even two hours? Even on my long solo XC, I knew before I sat down to plan that my planned round-robin would not put me in danger of burning reserve fuel. It was all kind of silly.

But some day you may need to make a flight that will use most of your fuel, with a fairly long climbout, or even a series of climbs and descents (to avoid clouds or find favorable winds). You may not have a mobile device or even a piece of paper with all the numbers available. I'm not suggesting you whip out the E6B in flight, but if you're not in the habit of at least thinking about this stuff, it will be harder to understand what to do, should you need to do it.

Diversions... I guess if you have complete confidence in your onboard gadgetry, it's hardly worth thinking about. Let's face it, even if you're just squawking and talking, you don't need to figure out much by yourself if a diversion becomes necessary. But when a diversion is necessary, for weather or fuel or an emergency, I think it's foolish to be up there without at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to guesstimate heading, time and descent profile with the most basic tools: compass, clock, chart and knowledge of airplane performance. I know the gadgets are less likely to fail you than the engine, but that's not the point. All the technology in the world will not help you much if you don't have an interest in and understanding of your situation... hell, some pilots can barely divert safely with ATC vectors over the radio. And pilots fly into terrain and bust airspaces in good weather with a working GPS right in front of them. That's sad, and it's because they just aren't thinking about what's going on. The fist link in the chain is always a failure to understand what's going on, or where they are. They are "behind" the gadgets, just as a pilot can get "behind" the airplane.

Anyway, I never saw these exercises as a huge burden, really... but every pilot is different. I'm a freak; I actually enjoy thorough planning and old-school figuring in flight (although I also do fine on casual short trips without anything more than pilotage and knowing the tanks are full).

Sounds like that is not your bag at all, and I accept that.

But you might see it differently, though, if you can find an instructor who can present such skills to you as something worth learning, not just a bunch of FAA-mandated hurdles that you have to jump over to get your certificate. Or find your own way to appreciate these exercises... "PIC" should mean you are ready for challenges, IMHO, not merely ready to tell the airplane where you want to go and have it take you there.

Stall practice is a fair analogy: I often hear "Damn, that's scary stuff- I already know how to avoid stalls; why do I have to demonstrate full stalls and recovery?" If you think you could (and should) convince such a pilot that stall recovery is worth practicing, you should be able to see why all this fussy nav stuff is worth practicing.
 
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Here a bit of perspective on your pilot buddy there: The most common common cause of engine failure in a plane still today is running out of fuel. Your buddy there is primed and ready for this to happen to him. If he's your instructor, get a new instructor. If he's another pilot, use him as an example of how not to think.
That's a very good point! It's a good bet that many of these fuel-starvation events included working fuel gauges, or even displays showing fuel flow and estimated endurance figures. It's a mental thing.
Unless the aircraft is completely autonomous, somebody on board has to be thinking. And when they're autonomous, nobody on board will be able to claim they are PIC, IMHO.
 
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