Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
What's the average of 1,10,10,10,10,10,10 and how many are below it?
And how many of us happen to have greater than the average number of arms and legs?
Just Quit Training
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And how many of us happen to have greater than the average number of arms and legs?
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
That is not true at all Kimberly. I was impressed by how natural you sounded on the radio.Also there's nothing wrong with using plain English to explain what you want if you can't come up with what you think is proper phraseology.
(Oh yeah I had a jet pilot / Captain (MARI!!) go on a cross country with me.)
Well what I wanted was for them to leave me alone. 3 hours of turbulence in a 150 really puts you in a bad mood, so when they "surprised me" with questions I thought I wouldn't be able to fly my planned route home and I got upset since I planned everything to avoid / go under their airspaces. I am sure they were trying to help but in my foul mood at the time I didn't think so. I finally told them I was "unfamiliar" and "wanted headings and altitudes" if they expected me to do anything other than the kneeboard, six part, flight plan that was in my lap. They asked me what that was, I told them (direct South County, then direct Livermore, then direct Petaluma) and they said OK. I refused to mess with a GPS at their command when my eyes should be outside the cockpit and not inside messing with some device I don't know how to use (one I'd spent the night before programming my 6 waypoints / airports into).
Everskyward
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Your explanation to them seems like it was good enough to get you what you wanted.
I think GPS can be somewhat of a distraction when you are VFR and supposed to be keeping track of where you are by looking out the window, especially if you are not that familiar with how to use it. Remember I turned on the map function of my iPhone for about... two minutes before I turned it off. Using a VOR cross-radial plus looking at the sectional was much more natural to me but that's how I learned.
John Baker
Final Approach
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Poor poor Mat, things got tough, everyones being mean to him, it's just awful. I can't blame him for quiting something that proved to be not easy.
It's just not fair. You guys are nothing but big meanies.
-John
Exactly correct, yet we wonder why there are so few pilots.
Gubbins
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gone for good
Maybe I am just a nerd but I enjoyed doing it the "old fashioned way" while training as well as using all the high tech toys. Working on a paper flight plan, and seeing how close you could get to it using pilotage and dead reckoning, and see if you could be at the waypoints you had chosen within a minute of when you said you'd be there is AWESOME. I also love foreflight, and my G1000 and SVT and all that stuff, but the biggest joy is turning the AP off, looking outside the window and flying low.
AirDC
Pre-takeoff checklist
$20 says his instructor was trying to get an airline job.
John Baker
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denverpilot
Tied Down
I'd take that bet and up it to $100.
cleared4theoption
Pre-takeoff checklist
Maybe I am just a nerd but I enjoyed doing it the "old fashioned way" while training as well as using all the high tech toys. Working on a paper flight plan, and seeing how close you could get to it using pilotage and dead reckoning, and see if you could be at the waypoints you had chosen within a minute of when you said you'd be there is AWESOME. I also love foreflight, and my G1000 and SVT and all that stuff, but the biggest joy is turning the AP off, looking outside the window and flying low.
X10000
IowaMatt
Filing Flight Plan
Well, the guy was here to seek advice...
Everybody gave it to him
All my best,
Matt
L.Adamson
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L.Adamson
I don't think GPS is a distraction at all...............but I also think that the user should be VERY familiar with it's operation, before attempting to use it in flight, as the sole pilot. That way, you have plenty of time to look out the window/windscreen, and keep track of all the airspaces (if present), what's on the ground, and what's in the air.
My moving map GPSs have stayed on practically ever minute the planes are ever flown. Most of my VFR includes restricted, Class B, narrow corridors, and so on. I'll take a good size moving map, anyday........and especially around unfamiliar areas.
I can't use VORS, because I built an experimental, and didn't install them. It's not set up for IFR. To me, a Nav/com would have been just about as much a waste, as buying an ADF. I too learned with VORs, as GPS didn't exist. I do have two comms & a great audio panel.
Since I did spend all of those years building an "experimental" class airplane, much of the satisfaction is seeing it all work. Therefor, when my two axis A/P, GPS, & fuel monitor all function perfectly, and work together.......then I'm happy. To me, that's part of the fun.
P.S... mentioned I it before. The Garmin 696 is my fifth Garmin. I have a small Lowrance as backup. Between good units, good wiring, and good antenna arangements, I have not lost a GPS signal since around 1994. With the units constantly picking up between 8 to 11 satellites, and using the best signals from at least 5, satellite failure isn't much of a problem.
Someday, when I'm bored with the looks of the Tetons, Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, Crater Lake, and much more; I guess I can always install VORs, take up IFR.....and post pictures of being in a gray mass of solid clouds...
Maybe I can make use of my marker beacon & heated pitot. Yes, that should be a lot of fun.. L.Adamson
Someday, when I'm bored with the looks of the Tetons, Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, Crater Lake, and much more; I guess I can always install VORs, take up IFR.....and post pictures of being in a gray mass of solid clouds...
L.Adamson
Tetons are still here......
http://www.alltravelcams.com/viewer...llJacksonHole.com&camwidth=1024&camheight=800
L.Adamson
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L.Adamson
Yes they are! Flew up to northwest Montana last year from KSLC. Rugged Sawtooth mountains of Idaho on the way up, and Yellowstone, Jackson Hole, on the way back. IMO---- that's what flight is all about!
L.Adamson
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
I was on your side, but got no comments about that. Now you quit because you did not get a compassionate ear? WTF? Are you a man or a little girl running away from a tough situation.....again.
The problem is you listened to the ass holes. The problem is your attitude.
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MBDiagMan
Final Approach
You make a good point. When I was his age in 1968 I went through three years in the US Army. I wonder how he would react to THAT sort of an inconvenience?
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
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Anthony
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anthony
Well, the guy was here to seek advice...
Everybody gave it to him
All my best,
Matt
Really? Advice? What was the title of his post? Just QUIT Training.
He posted to get reinforcement for quitting, that's all. People, including myself didn't tell him what he wanted to hear, we told him the truth. You have to want this thing.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
+1
Talking about meeting some of the best ******* on the planet!
Can you imagine laying down your rifle in bootcamp and saying the rifle range instructor didn't know what he was talking about? Then saying you wanted to quit?
Maybe we were the dumb ones for not trying! 
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Maybe I am just a nerd but I enjoyed doing it the "old fashioned way" while training as well as using all the high tech toys. Working on a paper flight plan, and seeing how close you could get to it using pilotage and dead reckoning, and see if you could be at the waypoints you had chosen within a minute of when you said you'd be there is AWESOME. I also love foreflight, and my G1000 and SVT and all that stuff, but the biggest joy is turning the AP off, looking outside the window and flying low.
Yes, I enjoyed messing with the Foreflight and other technology during training, but I never depended on it until after my Private. My idea was that I wanted to work through flight planning, ded reckoning and pilotage to not only do well on it for the practical, but also to be well grounded so I would have more background knowledge of what Foreflight was calculating for me.
I fly with steam gauges and dual VOR's, G/S, Localizer and such, but Foreflight is part of my cockpit as well, with a chart at the ready, and like Gubbins I had learned how to use it while still a student.
When I was doing my student flying last year, my old school instructor had another student that was several months ahead of me. My instructor told me that the guy was a gadget freak with 696 as well as an IPad in the cockpit all the time.
I didn't learn the details until after my own checkride, but when this student went for his checkride, he flunked out within 5 miles of leaving the airport. Evidently it was his first flight without all his gadgetry allowed. He picked the wrong leg of the lake as his checkpoint and when the DPE diverted him he went COMPLETELY in the wrong direction.
When I found about this I was kind of stunned. Not only that a student could make such a dumb and ignorant navigational error, but that my old school instructor had signed him off for the checkride with him having such a lack of navigation 101, or maybe better termed Navigation Kindergarten.
I believe that even if you are going to have the finest GPS based navigational equipment money can buy, you are well served as a student pilot, learning how it's all planned and calculated manually so that you understand what the gadgetry is doing for you and telling you.
I can't remember a single instructor I have ever flown with going that route. Most of them were older and have day-jobs as FBO owner, A&P, engineer, public school teacher, college student, anesthesiologist, chemist, corporate pilot, state gov. pilot.....
Contrary to popular belief, airline pilot is not the pinnacle of professional achievement.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
Bingo! At one time it was probably true that the sharp CFIs were angling for airline jobs. Now the smart ones are trying to find anything else.
heilmanbw
Pre-Flight
At least I can say mine is one of the ones that isn't. He has already done the airline thing, the agricultural thing, and now runs the FBO and loves it. I am glad I have an instructor that isn't looking for the airline slot plus with his experience I am learning a lot. He also wants things to be done right. If I mess something up he lets me know. I know with him I will be getting quality training and I am having fun doing it.
As far as the comment that started this thread I feel as if neither him or the "instructor" really wanted to be there. Even as a student that hasn't even soloed yet I know the reasoning behind the training. Crap happens and when you are in an airplane you can't pull over and call AAA. You may have to deviate to alternate site. I just can't believe that an instructor worth his salt would ever say that.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
(sarcastic humor) Thanks for adding to the post count.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Weren't you supposed to show me how to use an abacus?
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Still on my to-do list. I haven't had a really good VOR workout since my days of Rod Machado on MSFS.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
When did we get that piece of data?
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Regardless of his ACTUAL age, his attitude gives away his mental maturity age. There are 21 year olds with the maturity of a 60 year old, and there are 60 year olds with the maturity of a 12 year old.
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AirDC
Pre-takeoff checklist
Check out the link:
http://www.j3-cub.com/smf/index.php?topic=6992.0
Seems like he had the desire a few months ago. Maybe he got burned out. Sounded like a nice guy with a bad instructor. Hope he finishes up one day and gets himself a cub.
His last post on that string:
Bob, I have been accelerating the lessons lately and my instructor who has become a friend is holding back on an airline job to finish me up. I used to go 2-3 times a week but went 5 days last week. I have a flexible job so I can sneak away and do flight lessons during the day. He says if we keep this up we can be all done before March 1st.
If it takes me more than another month I won't wait to try and get a ride in a Cub.
Until then I am laser focused on finishing this.
Matt
Google-fu puts him in his mid-40s (graduated college in '89)
http://www.j3-cub.com/smf/index.php?topic=6992.0
Seems like he had the desire a few months ago. Maybe he got burned out. Sounded like a nice guy with a bad instructor. Hope he finishes up one day and gets himself a cub.
His last post on that string:
Bob, I have been accelerating the lessons lately and my instructor who has become a friend is holding back on an airline job to finish me up. I used to go 2-3 times a week but went 5 days last week. I have a flexible job so I can sneak away and do flight lessons during the day. He says if we keep this up we can be all done before March 1st.
If it takes me more than another month I won't wait to try and get a ride in a Cub.
Until then I am laser focused on finishing this.
Matt
Google-fu puts him in his mid-40s (graduated college in '89)
You might be right... screen name is MattC66... that would make him 45 /46.... Hard to believe a grown up would not be well grounded by then.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
You might be right... screen name is MattC66... that would make him 45 /46.... Hard to believe a grown up would not be well grounded by then.
I agree. I'm disappointed that he is that old and still has an immature attitude. If he were chronologically young, he would grow out of it naturally, but at that age, his chances aren't so good.
BTW, he might be older than that. I didn't graduate form college until I was 30. Of course the military got in the way, but even so, I drug my feet.
saracelica
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saracelica
Getting burned out is easy to do. Takes alot of work and focus.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
Pretty simple in most airplanes, if the pilot has a method. Unfortunately, most don't. Here's mine.
The top needle (VOR 1) is "go-to/go-from" depending on distance from station. The airplane always flies somewhere along the go-to/go-from line.
The bottom needle (Vor 2) is "side-to-side needle" and is always set to "From." When intercepting a crossing radial, the needle will always point towards the station until crossing the radial, then point away from the station afterwards.
Pilots who understand those fundamentals can work any real-life VOR nav puzzle other than the goofy "how far am I" parallel to station problems.
The hardest part of teaching VOR/ILS? Getting the student to tune and identify the station.
The top needle (VOR 1) is "go-to/go-from" depending on distance from station. The airplane always flies somewhere along the go-to/go-from line.
The bottom needle (Vor 2) is "side-to-side needle" and is always set to "From." When intercepting a crossing radial, the needle will always point towards the station until crossing the radial, then point away from the station afterwards.
Pilots who understand those fundamentals can work any real-life VOR nav puzzle other than the goofy "how far am I" parallel to station problems.
The hardest part of teaching VOR/ILS? Getting the student to tune and identify the station.
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Jaybird180
Final Approach
Okay, that makes sense. Perhaps I'll get my control issues on MSFS worked out enough to fire it up again (nothing I've tried has fixed the slow right roll).
LJS1993
Line Up and Wait
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LJ Savala
Guys I'm no pilot but I thought VOR was pretty much mandatory knowledge.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
It is.
So when you ask, "Do I need to know this for the test?" the answer is "Yes".
But - there are different tricks to how you can use it, depending on the situation.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
When I FIRST took up flying last year after a 20 year layoff, I spoke with a CFI near here in the process of trying to get started again. Remember, I had been away from flying for 20 years.
In the course of this telephone conversation I asked if they still use VOR's. He said with emphasis "Hell NO," and said something like you can get a GPS for $500 that will take you anywhere you want to go.
From this conversation I got the idea that they had just shut down all the VOR's and bulldozed them. I was pleasantly surprised once I found my old instructor and started flying with him again, that this was not the case.
I love GPS, but it would have been kind of silly to just stop using VOR's that are already in place. Luckily they still use charts too!
In the course of this telephone conversation I asked if they still use VOR's. He said with emphasis "Hell NO," and said something like you can get a GPS for $500 that will take you anywhere you want to go.
From this conversation I got the idea that they had just shut down all the VOR's and bulldozed them. I was pleasantly surprised once I found my old instructor and started flying with him again, that this was not the case.
I love GPS, but it would have been kind of silly to just stop using VOR's that are already in place. Luckily they still use charts too!