Just looking for some input

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Ray F

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Ray F
Hey guys, Here's the sitch. I've done all 55+ of my training hours so far in a 172. Recently, one of the two 172's we have got bent and is out of service. So the one that is left is booked solid almost constantly. They have an archer that isn't rented out nearly as much but it would require the extra time for a checkout in it. All I have left training wise is my long xc and check ride prep, on the other hand, I might have an opportunity in the next couple of months to buy an archer.

I guess what I'm looking for is how long does it usually take to check out in an archer if all my time is in a 172? Also, realistically, I know it's probably not wise to switch aircraft this late in the training game, but how much of a difference would it really make?
 
If you're buying an archer then the extra time spent now will likely pay for itself later in insurance premiums. I'd make the switch sooner than later.
 
The transition should be relatively easy. All the systems are the same. We worry less about carb ice in the Piper than 172. But all the processes and flows are the same. Electric pump on during take off since we do not have gravity helping the fuel get to the engine.

You can see the runway from down wind, base and final.
 
If you intend to buy an archer,I would start the transition training now. The transition shouldn't be to difficult. Just follow the checklist for any minor differences.
 
Common sense would say stick to the 172 until you get your ticket, then transition.

I've CFIed a bit and life is always easier when you sick to the same plane.

Just put your foot down, you're so close to your checkride it seems silly to change things up at this point.
 
ChitDisturber said:
Common sense would say stick to the 172 until you get your ticket, then transition.

I've CFIed a bit and life is always easier when you sick to the same plane.

Just put your foot down, you're so close to your checkride it seems silly to change things up at this point.
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Id argue if he is that close to a checkride he should have no problem transitioning.
 
frfly172 said:
If you intend to buy an archer,I would start the transition training now. The transition shouldn't be to difficult. Just follow the checklist for any minor differences.
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Seanaldinho said:
Id argue if he is that close to a checkride he should have no problem transitioning.
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I agree, buy the plane. Transition training will take 2-5 hours tops, and improve your flying skills immensely.
 
Thanks guys for the input. My CFI seemed a little less than enthused about transitioning to the archer, but if I'm gonna end up with an archer anyway and the transition isn't super difficult, then it shouldn't be a big deal.
 
Ray F said:
Thanks guys for the input. My CFI seemed a little less than enthused about transitioning to the archer, but if I'm gonna end up with an archer anyway and the transition isn't super difficult, then it shouldn't be a big deal.
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Agreed......

The CFI should be happy you are going to experience another style of plane....... Maybe he owns the 172 and has a lease back to the FBO:dunno:;)
 
Are any of you guys telling him to transition right before his ride CFIs?
 
I know I would have freaked out if I had to switch right before my checkride. I was used to the P-140.

I was nervous enough...
 
ChitDisturber said:
Are any of you guys telling him to transition right before his ride CFIs?
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*not a cfi*

It's not right before his ride. He still has cross country work and ride prep. That's plenty of time to become proficient if he is competent enough to be 2 steps away from his ride.
 
Seanaldinho said:
*not a cfi*

It's not right before his ride. He still has cross country work and ride prep. That's plenty of time to become proficient if he is competent enough to be 2 steps away from his ride.
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Not a CFI +1
 
Bottom line for THIS CFI is that transitioning now WILL add cost to the overall process. Just how much depends on a couple of undefined variables. If Ray wants to do it with the least cost, sticking with the 172 would be the way to go.

On the other hand, if availability was an issue with the other 172, and it would take more calendar time to finish the certificate, then transitioning to the Archer would make sense.

Personal choice, Ray. Do whatever suits your needs best.
 
I'm a CFI and I say switch as long as he's 10'ish hours or more from the ride. That's just based on him buying the new plane so why not?
 
One 172 is broken for undetermined time and the 2nd one is booked solid. Sounds to me like he is going to get a muli week no fly zone if he goes with your recommendation. In which case I do not think it will ultimately be cheaper as he will have to retrain to get back to where he is at after 2, 4 weeks waiting for a plane, even if that is an option.

If he immediately flies an archer tomorrow he might miss a week at most.

Neither is optimum solution but response to his live situation.

His best option was to buy a Cherokee 180 or Archer a couple of months back and finish his PPL and IFR in it.


Greg Bockelman said:
Bottom line for THIS CFI is that transitioning now WILL add cost to the overall process. Just how much depends on a couple of undefined variables. If Ray wants to do it with the least cost, sticking with the 172 would be the way to go.

On the other hand, if availability was an issue with the other 172, and it would take more calendar time to finish the certificate, then transitioning to the Archer would make sense.

Personal choice, Ray. Do whatever suits your needs best.
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The biggest issue you will have to get past is that fact that the wings are that much closer to the ground. They get into ground effect sooner and the overall effect is more pronounced. It will teach you to come in at the correct airspeed. If you come in too fast you will FLOAT and Float and float... Past that everything else will be pretty much the same.
I bought a low wing (Socata Tampico, for sale BTW ;). It is a super comfortable four seat, low wing plane with 160HP Lycoming O-320 on the front. IFR rated.) and struggled with floating. Once I slowed my approach down I could put it where I wanted, when I wanted.

Jim
 
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As someone who transitioned from Cherokees to a 172 about 2/3 of the way through primary training... yeah, sure, it will cost you a few hours. Big deal. Do what works for you. Going the other way (Cessna to Piper) you'll learn the finer points of managing float in ground effect, but you won't have to learn what rudder pedals are for.
 
It is not that big of a deal to transition airplanes as long as your basic flying skills are OK. A couple of good sessions concentrating on procedures and takeoff/landings should be all you need. I have taken many pilots through the process.
 
All the systems are the same? Not quite. The fuel system is somewhat different. You must switch tanks and use a boost pump. The sight picture is different and nosegear steering works a whole lot better. Flaps are less effective and short/soft takeoffs require more (25 deg, 2nd notch).

It will cost a few hours. More if the panel is really different. It's all about whether that few hours bothers you or not.
 
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Tony_Scarpelli said:
The transition should be relatively easy. All the systems are the same.
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No, they are not. Plenty of significant differences in systems, handling, and flight characteristics. The OP still needs the long solo XC, so he'd have to check out in the new type, get the 90-day make/model solo endorsement, do the XC, then start test prep. Based on my instructing experience, I'd expect to add at least 3 flight hours and a coupe of hours of ground training to the program at this point. If that's a better alternative for the OP than fighting to get the remaining 172, mighty fine, but that is what he should expect.
 
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Kiddo's Driver said:
The biggest issue you will have to get past is that fact that the wings are that much closer to the ground. They get into ground effect sooner and the overall effect is more pronounced. It will teach you to come in at the correct airspeed. If you come in too fast you will FLOAT and Float and float... Past that everything else will be pretty much the same.
I bought a low wing (Socata Tampico, for sale BTW ;). It is a super comfortable four seat, low wing plane with 160HP Lycoming O-320 on the front. IFR rated.) and struggled with floating. Once I slowed my approach down I could put it where I wanted, when I wanted.

Jim
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I don't know how much different the archer is than a cherokee, but ground effect was not an issue for me. In fact, the 172 seemed to float longer IMO. I always joked around that the cherokee floated like a brick.
 
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I'm of the camp that you finish your training in whatever you started, then after you get your ticket, get experience in as many different planes as you can, barring logistical impediments.
 
if there is a way to schedule in the 172 i would try to do it. transitioning this late in your training and so close to the check ride is not a good idea IMO. ask your flight school if they can prioritize you in front of other students because you are close to being done
 
All you guys advocating staying in type:

Are you factoring in one of two planes is bent? How does 'cant fly' compare against 'new plane type' when it comes to flight training cost? On top of that the OP is planning on buying an archer! Why not switch to an archer????


Cheese and rice.
 
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There are extremely valid points on either side. I completely get not switching aircraft this close to the ride. Otoh, the 172 is booked pretty solid and I could fly the archer enough to checkout in it probably do my long xc before a spot opens up for the 172.
 
In the time it's taken to debate the issue, you could have transitioned to a low wing airplane and been flying. :)
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm of the camp that you finish your training in whatever you started, then after you get your ticket, get experience in as many different planes as you can, barring logistical impediments.
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And he seems to have one of those logistical impediments.

I thoroughly agree that changing aircraft just because you don't like one isn't a good idea late in training (though it's not so bad early on), as none of the common trainer aircraft are difficult to fly. But that's not what's happening here.

Usually going to a PA28 is a step backward for availability, as there really are fewer of them out there overall, compared to 172s. But this case appears different in that regard.

A third option is to go somewhere else, but that's likely to require an instructor change, which may be more costly than a transition this late in the game.
 
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