June 6, 1944 "to remember"

It’s unfortunate that most under 40 don’t know what June 6th is or what D-Day was.
 
i give credit to the 2nd poster for asking.
Most <40’s are not exposed to it like my generation (boomers) - and I fear they don’t learn of the significance (especially as how it relates to avoidance of future conflicts large and small).
 
Rcmutz said:
It’s unfortunate that most under 40 don’t know what June 6th is or what D-Day was.
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Or June first, or July third, or October 21st, or any number of significant dates. It's the natural progession of an aging populace; a significant event in your own existence is barely a blip two generations down. Your grandparents probably complained you didn't understand the significance of the Battle of Manila.

Ron "You can ***** when ready, Gridley" Wanttaja
 
Rcmutz said:
It’s unfortunate that most under 40 don’t know what June 6th is or what D-Day was.
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Just turned 37 on the 3rd. I used to go to the gym with 2 POWs that were in battle of the bulge and I absolutely loved hearing all their stories.

I didn't know today was d day. But only because I didn't know today was the 6th
 
Took my kids to the 9-11 memorial in NYC last week. Could tell this event that is burned into my mind is just something they read about in history class. I get it but it's odd to see the difference in significance to living through something vs. just reading about it. This is to them what Pearl harbor is to me.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Took my kids to the 9-11 memorial in NYC last week. Could tell this event that is burned into my mind is just something they read about in history class. I get it but it's odd to see the difference in significance to living through something vs. just reading about it. This is to them what Pearl harbor is to me.
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I've liken 9/11 to Kennedy for my dad's generation and pearl harbor for my grandma's.

She just turned 90 and every chance I can I like to ask about that. Once those first hand stories are gone, they're gone.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Day of Days

View attachment 152547
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That's one of the more famous photos of that day.

Everyone has seen it, here's the official caption:

D06501DC-661C-4F1D-B28B-44EC237E9DDD.jpeg

“Into the Jaws of Death: Down the ramp of a Coast Guard landing barge Yankee soldiers storm toward the beach-sweeping fire of Nazi defenders in the D-Day invasion of the French coast. Troops ahead may be seen lying flat under the deadly machinegun resistance of the Germans. Soon the Nazis were driven back under the overwhelming invasion forces thrown in from Coast Guard and Navy amphibious craft.”

U.S. Coast Guard photo by Chief Photographers Mate Robert F. Sargent.
 
I have been to Normandy beach twice on June 6....I met both allies and germans that served that day , and understand why our American grandparents and parents are called the greatest generation. it should be a mandatory pilgrimage for current generation.

thanks for posting this
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Took my kids to the 9-11 memorial in NYC last week. Could tell this event that is burned into my mind is just something they read about in history class. I get it but it's odd to see the difference in significance to living through something vs. just reading about it. This is to them what Pearl harbor is to me.
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Until you visit the Arizona memorial at Pearl. Then it hits you as you realize 1700 sailors went down with the ship. Pretty emotional to be standing above the ship realizing what happened beneath your feet.
 
Matthew said:
That's one of the more famous photos of that day.

Everyone has seen it, here's the official caption:

View attachment 152548

“Into the Jaws of Death: Down the ramp of a Coast Guard landing barge Yankee soldiers storm toward the beach-sweeping fire of Nazi defenders in the D-Day invasion of the French coast. Troops ahead may be seen lying flat under the deadly machinegun resistance of the Germans. Soon the Nazis were driven back under the overwhelming invasion forces thrown in from Coast Guard and Navy amphibious craft.”

U.S. Coast Guard photo by Chief Photographers Mate Robert F. Sargent.
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Seeing this in movies, I think I would have been ****ing down my leg coming off the ramp. Those boys were something back then!
 
Rcmutz said:
Until you visit the Arizona memorial at Pearl. Then it hits you as you realize 1700 sailors went down with the ship. Pretty emotional to be standing above the ship realizing what happened beneath your feet.
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We were there last Feb. My nephew was stationed at Pearl Harbor at the time, he took us on the behind the scenes tour of Ford Island. The Arizona Memorial was as sobering as any National Cemetery. But you're right, it's different because you are "right there". The drive around Ford Island was fascinating to me for the history and layout of where everything happened that day.

Arlington National Cemetery, and the changing of the guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, is also a place to soak in the history of this country.

But for me, the real gut punch was "The Wall". I'm not sure why, maybe because I was alive at the time and my dad's name came pretty close to being etched in it.
 
Had a recent discussion with an under 40 acquaintance who strongly disagreed with my position that fighting the so-called "war" with Iran is IMO worth it (at least for now), for a variety of reasons. His main beef was loss of life for oil and corporate greed.

I asked him if he had any idea about what were the approximate numbers of American military personnel that died within the first few days of ground combat on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima? In order that we could discuss some American history and maybe he could better understand my position.

He didn't have any desire to continue our conversation, and I don't believe he even had a clue to what I was talking about.
 
Matthew said:
But for me, the real gut punch was "The Wall". I'm not sure why, maybe because I was alive at the time and my dad's name came pretty close to being etched in it.
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Maybe because it’s intensely personal— not some grand thing up in the air. It has all the names, right in front of you.
 
Matthew said:
“Into the Jaws of Death: Down the ramp of a Coast Guard landing barge Yankee soldiers storm toward the beach-sweeping fire of Nazi defenders in the D-Day invasion of the French coast. Troops ahead may be seen lying flat under the deadly machinegun resistance of the Germans. Soon the Nazis were driven back under the overwhelming invasion forces thrown in from Coast Guard and Navy amphibious craft.”
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That paragraph gives the common impression that the Americans were the only ones involved here. But Canada and Britain were also heavily involved. From https://theddaystory.com/discover/what-is-d-day/ we get the following numbers:

1780787360572.png

Yes, 73,000 Americans, but also 83,115 British and Canadian troops, most of them British.

More perspective:

1780787454166.png

The war began in 1939. On September 1 Germany invaded Poland, and Britain and France declared war on Germany. Canada declared was on September 10. America did not enter the war until December 11, 1941, declaring war on the Axis after the attack on Pearl Harbor on the 7th. The first American troops showed up in Belfast, Northern Ireland, on January 26, 1942. America's help in the fight was welcome, as the other Allies were stretched to the limit. The Americans could provide immense numbers of ships, tanks, aircraft, trucks and other stuff with their enormous industrial base. Many American men and women volunteered. Some American veterans came home with British wives. So did Canadian vets.

Numerous Americans, eager to get into the war while their nation was still reluctant to get involved, came to Canada and trained at many of the Commonwealth Air Training bases scattered across Canada and went to Europe and flew as RCAF and RAF aircrew.
 
Dan Thomas said:
That paragraph gives the common impression that the Americans were the only ones involved here. But Canada and Britain were also heavily involved. From https://theddaystory.com/discover/what-is-d-day/ we get the following numbers:

View attachment 152550

Yes, 73,000 Americans, but also 83,115 British and Canadian troops, most of them British.

More perspective:

View attachment 152551

The war began in 1939. On September 1 Germany invaded Poland, and Britain and France declared war on Germany. Canada declared was on September 10. America did not enter the war until December 11, 1941, declaring war on the Axis after the attack on Pearl Harbor on the 7th. The first American troops showed up in Belfast, Northern Ireland, on January 26, 1942. America's help in the fight was welcome, as the other Allies were stretched to the limit. The Americans could provide immense numbers of ships, tanks, aircraft, trucks and other stuff with their enormous industrial base. Many American men and women volunteered. Some American veterans came home with British wives. So did Canadian vets.

Numerous Americans, eager to get into the war while their nation was still reluctant to get involved, came to Canada and trained at many of the Commonwealth Air Training bases scattered across Canada and went to Europe and flew as RCAF and RAF aircrew.
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I can’t remember enough about the Battle of Britain, but my recollection is that there were a fair number of Americans flying for the RAF. I’ll have to refresh my memory on that, and that’s a good thing.
 
Rick A said:
Had a recent discussion with an under 40 acquaintance who strongly disagreed with my position that fighting the so-called "war" with Iran is IMO worth it (at least for now), for a variety of reasons. His main beef was loss of life for oil and corporate greed.

I asked him if he had any idea about what were the approximate numbers of American military personnel that died within the first few days of ground combat on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima? In order that we could discuss some American history and maybe he could better understand my position.

He didn't have any desire to continue our conversation, and I don't believe he even had a clue to what I was talking about.
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Didn't understand or understood exactly where you were coming from and that it he wasn't going to come out looking good.
 
Racerx said:
Didn't understand or understood exactly where you were coming from and that it he wasn't going to come out looking good.
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IMO he wasn't going to come out looking good by no knowing that absolute magnitude of American KIA deaths occurring in WWII, which totaled nearly half a million, as compared to Operation Epic Fury. And the consideration of any reason that could benefit the safety, security and well-being of our citizens, as is required by the US Constitution, that could risk American lives in battle.

As of Memorial Day last month year, there were a total of 13 American deaths (KIA) serving in Iran (Operation Epic Fury), of which 6 of these 13 unfortunate deaths occurring during the accidental mid-air collision of KC-tankers over western Iraq. Which in my opinion is an amazingly low number compared with the destruction occurring to a radical regime that has contributed to the imprisonment and killing of Americans for nearly half a century, and promises to do more.

My point in sharing my post was to relate the surprise and disappointment of speaking to a smart and intelligent acquaintance and learning that he believes no US Military involvement is worth any potential loss of life, anywhere and for any reason. I doubt he honors our dead buried in Normandy (but I could be wrong).

I found no reason to carry the discussion further, as I'm not interested in bothering to explain and rationalize any personal opinion that is so opposite than my own.
 
Rick A said:
IMO he wasn't going to come out looking good by no knowing that absolute magnitude of American KIA deaths occurring in WWII, which totaled nearly half a million, as compared to Operation Epic Fury. And the consideration of any reason that could benefit the safety, security and well-being of our citizens, as is required by the US Constitution, that could risk American lives in battle.

As of Memorial Day last month year, there were a total of 13 American deaths (KIA) serving in Iran (Operation Epic Fury), of which 6 of these 13 unfortunate deaths occurring during the accidental mid-air collision of KC-tankers over western Iraq. Which in my opinion is an amazingly low number compared with the destruction occurring to a radical regime that has contributed to the imprisonment and killing of Americans for nearly half a century, and promises to do more.

My point in sharing my post was to relate the surprise and disappointment of speaking to a smart and intelligent acquaintance and learning that he believes no US Military involvement is worth any potential loss of life, anywhere and for any reason. I doubt he honors our dead buried in Normandy (but I could be wrong).

I found no reason to carry the discussion further, as I'm not interested in bothering to explain and rationalize any personal opinion that is so opposite than my own.
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To me you can't really compare WW2 with 21st century foreign policy. I've seen first hand (and multiple times), the immense pain that is caused by these decisions. People in my graduating class that are no longer with us, or who are maimed and disabled, for what? Decades of war in the middle east and it's no safer there than it was in 2005. You have to understand the skepticism present in my generation because we've seen war hawk politicians tell us that we are in immediate danger, time and time again, while my peers die and lose limbs and their sacrifices just get the ruling class richer and richer. We've heard this story before. Fool me once...

whats-your-favourite-bushism-moment-v0-rd8g0wtxyzad1.webp
 
Baked Potato said:
To me you can't really compare WW2 with 21st century foreign policy. I've seen first hand (and multiple times), the immense pain that is caused by these decisions. People in my graduating class that are no longer with us, or who are maimed and disabled, for what? Decades of war in the middle east and it's no safer there than it was in 2005. You have to understand the skepticism present in my generation because we've seen war hawk politicians tell us that we are in immediate danger, time and time again, while my peers die and lose limbs and their sacrifices just get the ruling class richer and richer. We've heard this story before. Fool me once...
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I hear you, and can't disagree with you and your peers. I had a good friend, a neighbor (Army Major with 2 young children) who was one of the few killed in 1990 during the first "International" short term war to oust Saddam Hussein from power. That total misadventure followed fake manufactured intelligence (with huge help from our media propaganda outlets) that of course didn't return our troops, but modified their mission into nation building. Ultimately continuing to kill Americans while having no real US national security goals Thankfully 20 years or more fakery and BS reasons to lose Americans in Afghanistan has ended.

Painting a broad brush to all past corruption, lies and deceit, including abundant lack of accountability by the people who run our nation may not apply to this excursion in Iran. We'll know soon enough.

Hopefully we are learning from our past mistakes. Nobody can be trusted. In the case of Iran, I believe ignoring the Iranian threat fails the "reciprocity test": If we ignore Iran's alleged nuclear ambitions and threat, allowing them (or whoever is controlling them) to continue their policy of killing Americans and spreading Sharia, and it results in a nuclear weapon blast murdering thousands of innocent Americans... then most everybody (likely you and our peers too) will scream "how could we let that happen", "didn't anyone know they had and would use nukes and stop them"?

Before I rejoin the no war club, I want to see verifiable proof that Iran's nuclear capabilities and desire for more become past history. And I want to see those who lied and profited from all the past deceit and carnage brought to justice. Hopefully we're off to a good start.
 
Rick A said:
in 1990 during the first "International" short term war to oust Saddam Hussein from power. That total misadventure followed fake manufactured intelligence (with huge help from our media propaganda outlets) that of course didn't return our troops, but modified their mission into nation building.
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You have a loose relationship with facts. I find that common among those with strong political opinions that they inject where they don't belong, like this thread.
 
Rick A said:
Nobody can be trusted. In the case of Iran, I believe ignoring the Iranian threat fails the "reciprocity test": If we ignore Iran's alleged nuclear ambitions and threat, allowing them (or whoever is controlling them) to continue their policy of killing Americans and spreading Sharia, and it results in a nuclear weapon blast murdering thousands of innocent Americans... then most everybody (likely you and our peers too) will scream "how could we let that happen", "didn't anyone know they had and would use nukes and stop them"?

Before I rejoin the no war club, I want to see verifiable proof that Iran's nuclear capabilities and desire for more become past history. And I want to see those who lied and profited from all the past deceit and carnage brought to justice. Hopefully we're off to a good start.
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Crossing the Atlantic to battle the Nazi Empire on their home turf to help put an end to their reign of horrors was, in my view, one of the most unambiguously GREAT things the USA has ever been a part of. Kicking their ass all the way to Berlin was a heroic achievement and an enduring source of pride for every country involved 80+ years later (for ALL of the allied powers).

There is no such moral clarity or purpose in most of our middle east escapades. Unlike the Nazi scourge, the middle east is not a place with 1 unambiguous "bad actor" and a clear recipe for how to handle it. Multiple powers exist and they're all jockeying for influence, balance and counter-balance; none of them are fully aligned with the USA. Some worse than others. In that sense, it helps explain why we've been there for a quarter century and still do not know how to wrap up. That complexity is also evident in the fact that somehow we're invested in protecting KSA from Iranian missile barrages, despite 15 of 19 hijackers on 9/11 being Saudi. Or KSA recently chopping up a dissident US resident with a bonesaw in a Turkish embassy.

Quite a bit of nuance in that region. Not as simple as "Iran wants to blow up the world and must be stopped". A lot of people who are motivated to make us believe it is that simple, though.
 
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Wars today are for profit.

We literally have threads on here making fun of their cardboard mock-up stealth fighter that they waved around to show how powerful they are.

I doubt they have anything close to a nuke.

Velocity173

Thread 'Iran Stealth Jet'

This is hilarious! Looks like they have a cockpit designed for midgets. The flyby sounds like an RC plane, and the panel appears to be Dynon D100 and D10s with a Garmin transponder. These guys are good. :lol:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trendin...ran-stealth-fighter-jet-claims-182601002.html
 
Ed Haywood said:
You have a loose relationship with facts. I find that common among those with strong political opinions that they inject where they don't belong, like this thread.
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Then list a few of those loose facts.

In a thread honoring the remembrance of the nearly 7000 American and Allied troops who died in that operation on another continent, strong opinions on a topic about the deaths of American troops since then shouldn't be considered out of bounds. Unless peace is expected to evolve in silence.
 
I think decision makers still live with the bad decisions that were made by America prior to WW-II where we decided to not be involved with another “European War” and thus it spiraled out of control and ended up being a world war with incredible casualties and atrocities.

The result has been trying to intervene at early stages be it preventing the spread of nuclear weapons, another genocide or economic warfare that affects trade and the global economy.

There have been good decisions, bad decisions and lots of lessons learned since. I don’t see that changing.
 
Generations, and such...

I am 92, and remember first hand. D day was radio news.

I only saw 3 movies during WW 2, all had newsreels of current destruction in the night terror bombing of London.

Pearl Harbor attack was announced in school over the public address system.

VE day was an exciting event, biggest UP day of the war to date.

VJ day was much bigger, plus noisy, guns fired and firecrackers. AND A 6 YEAR OLD KID COMING HOP SKIP AND JUMPING DOWN THE STREET, SHOUTING "THE WAR IS OVER, AND DAD IS STILL ALIVE! Some things are local and very personal, and very unforgettable, even if it was someone else's dad.

Slowing for a traffic light on my bike, clipped lightly by a passing maroon Oldsmobile hydromatic which did not stop for 50 or more feet. Hot day, the windows were open, and I rode up to give the driver a blast for not staying in the middle of his lane. Saw a face of agony, and a question, DID I HURT YOU? He knew about hurt, his legs ended a few inches above the knee. I assured him that I was not, he explained that he had just been issued a car modified to be driven without legs, and was still learning to drive it properly. 4 door sedan, folded wheel chair in the back seat. Another vivid memory that is never going away

Today, I have both a regular wheel chair and an electric one, and my car is for sale. I am remembering that Oldsmobile event with even more sympathy!

My wife's Uncle Wally died in the preinvasion OPERATION TIGER disaster, Uncle Ott lost one leg.

I remember the events, more than the dates.
 
geezer said:
Generations, and such...

I am 92, and remember first hand. D day was radio news.

I only saw 3 movies during WW 2, all had newsreels of current destruction in the night terror bombing of London.

Pearl Harbor attack was announced in school over the public address system.

VE day was an exciting event, biggest UP day of the war to date.

VJ day was much bigger, plus noisy, guns fired and firecrackers. AND A 6 YEAR OLD KID COMING HOP SKIP AND JUMPING DOWN THE STREET, SHOUTING "THE WAR IS OVER, AND DAD IS STILL ALIVE! Some things are local and very personal, and very unforgettable, even if it was someone else's dad.

Slowing for a traffic light on my bike, clipped lightly by a passing maroon Oldsmobile hydromatic which did not stop for 50 or more feet. Hot day, the windows were open, and I rode up to give the driver a blast for not staying in the middle of his lane. Saw a face of agony, and a question, DID I HURT YOU? He knew about hurt, his legs ended a few inches above the knee. I assured him that I was not, he explained that he had just been issued a car modified to be driven without legs, and was still learning to drive it properly. 4 door sedan, folded wheel chair in the back seat. Another vivid memory that is never going away

Today, I have both a regular wheel chair and an electric one, and my car is for sale. I am remembering that Oldsmobile event with even more sympathy!

My wife's Uncle Wally died in the preinvasion OPERATION TIGER disaster, Uncle Ott lost one leg.

I remember the events, more than the dates.
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Thank you Very, VERY much for that post.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
We literally have threads on here making fun of their (Iran's) cardboard mock-up stealth fighter that they waved around to show how powerful they are.
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Well the Iranian Navy is a bit more advanced ... their carriers are made of wood.
1780845273760.png
Uh, were. :cool:
 
My uncle was part of this. In the last year of his surgical residency, he was scooped up in mid-1943, sent off to Texas to learn Army basics, then back to Carlisle, PA, for officer training. From there, he went to England, where he honed his skills on the wounded bomber crews and pilots. He landed in France... as he said about halfway through the second day, and went straight to work.

After he passed, my cousin found his journals from that time, and there was some very detailed descriptions. Throughout 1944 and into 1945, he was mostly at makeshift hospitals that kept moving closer to Germany. Many entries talk about how many wounded he treated each day, the few he couldn’t save, overall conditions, weather, and even some moments of levity... comments about French women and how he “happily assisted a few in proper American bathing habits.” My cousin says she wouldn’t be surprised if a long-lost half brother or sister showed up at the door someday.

Just as things were starting to slow down, one day, they were all scooped up again and sent off to Germany. They followed behind the liberation of several concentration camps. This is where things get dark with some of his entries with details of what he saw at Ohrdruf and Flossenbürg that are beyond horrifying.

As my dad said, he was never the same after the war.

My cousin sent his journals that pertained to the camp liberations to the Holocaust Museum in DC. One of his writings has been added as audio description to the liberation exhibit. I haven't been there yet... but plan to do so soon...
 
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