Journey logs

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
When did the requirement for journey logs stop?

any one got a date?
 
I'll go out on the limb. There never was a requirement for journey logs in the US.
 
had one on a 172 in Canadja a few decades ago. It was kinda cool to look back to see where the plane had been + with who most its life.
 
kgruber said:
I'll go out on the limb. There never was a requirement for journey logs in the US.
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If that is true, (I don't know that it isn't) why do all the early log books I see have trip entries in them?
 
I don't see those type of entries past the mid 60s usually. I don't know if it was required or convention of the time. :dunno:
 
My Flybaby which was built in the late 60s has such logs. I just always figured it was something the pilot did to track his flight time since that's probably the only plane he flew.
 
I wouldn't want to be logging every flight twice. :nonod: If I only flew one plane and it could serve double duty for me and the plane, sure. I suspect that's why they went away. I may adopt them when I get a plane that requires an FE.:lol:
 
If I never logged anything again it would be too much!
(hater of paperwork)
 
jesse said:
My Flybaby which was built in the late 60s has such logs. I just always figured it was something the pilot did to track his flight time since that's probably the only plane he flew.
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I've never heard the term "Journey Log", but I believe the old EAA "Custom-Built Airplane" logbook is an example of one. It has sections up front to describe the airplane ("Make and Model, serial #1, weights, engine model, propeller, builder name), and a table of engine changes, a list of pilots checked out in the airplane.

However, when you open it up to the log section, the left side is similar to a conventional pilot log....Date, From & To, Hours/Minutes, and pilot's name. The right side is totally left for "Remarks".

So this "aircraft log" has entries like what you'd find in a pilot log, COMBINED with maintenance-related entries.

I liked this method. Thought it was a good choice for flying a Fly Baby, which makes sense...the note at the front said it was designed by Peter M. Bowers. I kept the logbook at the airport, and occasionally brought it home to transcribe the info to my pilot log.

EAA sold this style of logbook until about five years ago. Then, they switched to a more conventional maintenance-style log. I switched to a 3-ring binder log in the hangar for "journey recording" while the aircraft log only gets maintenance-style entries.

Was a bit miffed at the time, but I'm seeing the logic in it. No reason the A&P should have to page through entries on temperature and friends met when it comes time for the condition inspection. Also keeps me from having to buy a new logbook every couple of years....

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
I've never heard the term "Journey Log", but I believe the old EAA "Custom-Built Airplane" logbook is an example of one. It has sections up front to describe the airplane ("Make and Model, serial #1, weights, engine model, propeller, builder name), and a table of engine changes, a list of pilots checked out in the airplane.

However, when you open it up to the log section, the left side is similar to a conventional pilot log....Date, From & To, Hours/Minutes, and pilot's name. The right side is totally left for "Remarks".

So this "aircraft log" has entries like what you'd find in a pilot log, COMBINED with maintenance-related entries.

I liked this method. Thought it was a good choice for flying a Fly Baby, which makes sense...the note at the front said it was designed by Peter M. Bowers. I kept the logbook at the airport, and occasionally brought it home to transcribe the info to my pilot log.

EAA sold this style of logbook until about five years ago. Then, they switched to a more conventional maintenance-style log. I switched to a 3-ring binder log in the hangar for "journey recording" while the aircraft log only gets maintenance-style entries.

Was a bit miffed at the time, but I'm seeing the logic in it. No reason the A&P should have to page through entries on temperature and friends met when it comes time for the condition inspection. Also keeps me from having to buy a new logbook every couple of years....

Ron Wanttaja
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Most Fairchilds I see have no recording tach, and a Journey log, the Taylorcraft I annualed this year had a J/L. as does the Stinson I'm working on.
I do not believe it was required but how else would you track TT on the engine or airframe? how would you know when the next oil change was due? It's just the way it was done back in the day.
 
When did (has?) the requirement for a recording device like a tach or Hobbs come about?
 
Henning said:
When did (has?) the requirement for a recording device like a tach or Hobbs come about?
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It's a production certificate thing, when each manufacturer made the decision to place that type of tach in the make or model aircraft. After that, there was no reason to have a J/L.
Manufacturers like Taylorcraft, Fairchild, and a few other went out of business prior to doing that, so how do we track hours --- Journey log. With out the co-operation of the pilots we are lost in trying, this is why we see antiques showing less than 2000 hours in 70-80 years, or engines totally worn out in 100 hours.
 
Tom-D said:
Most Fairchilds I see have no recording tach, and a Journey log, the Taylorcraft I annualed this year had a J/L. as does the Stinson I'm working on.
I do not believe it was required but how else would you track TT on the engine or airframe? how would you know when the next oil change was due? It's just the way it was done back in the day.
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With a watch, start on wheels up, end on wheels down.
 
Tom-D said:
We know how, was it ever required in a FAR or any other rule?

show us.
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I looked at a couple old CAR documents online and didn't see a reference, so I'm kinda thinking it was a convention and never a requirement. When everything got a recording system, they became scarce because they weren't used much anymore.
 
Tom-D said:
We know how, was it ever required in a FAR or any other rule?

show us.

OBTW it's chocks to chocks
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All the working turboprops I've flown use a squat switch Tom, based on having weight on wheels, time is based on when the wheels lift off the ground, stoops when the wheels touch the ground.
 
James331 said:
All the working turboprops I've flown use a squat switch Tom, based on having weight on wheels, time is based on when the wheels lift off the ground, stoops when the wheels touch the ground.
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How many turboprops do you know that do not have a recording tack?

Or how many GA aircraft have squat switches ?

Let's stay real.
 
Tom-D said:
How many turboprops do you know that do not have a recording tack?

Or how many GA aircraft have squat switches ?

Let's stay real.
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If you have a retract it's an option I see used, in fact most retracts I've flown were rigged with the Hobbs on them. You can pull direct on the green light as well.
 
Henning said:
If you have a retract it's an option I see used, in fact most retracts I've flown were rigged with the Hobbs on them. You can pull direct on the green light as well.
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when you have that, wouldn't you have a recording tach also?
 
Let's see, my King Air 90 didn't have a recording tach. It did have a hobbs with a squat switch on the landing gear. The SA227 didn't have a recording tach, it had a hobbs with a squat switch on the main landing gear, same for the Beech 99 I flew.

My BE-18H didn't have any recording tachs either (non turbine). We used a hobbs meter on the landing gear switch.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Let's see, my King Air 90 didn't have a recording tach. It did have a hobbs with a squat switch on the landing gear. The SA227 didn't have a recording tach, it had a hobbs with a squat switch on the main landing gear, same for the Beech 99 I flew.

My BE-18H didn't have any recording tachs either (non turbine). We used a hobbs meter on the landing gear switch.
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Well good for you, there is always one.
 
Notice how the thread has now drifted off to aircraft the experts think are the average old GA aircraft?
 
"Journey logs"....is this before or after they became a rock and roll band? :D
 
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Tom-D said:
when you have that, wouldn't you have a recording tach also?
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No, I get in plenty of planes that have a Hobbs and no recording tach. Tach on my 310 wasn't recording.

Come to think of it, I don't think any of the old style electric tachs are recording.
 
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Henning said:
No, I get in plenty of planes that have a Hobbs and no recording tach. Tach on my 310 wasn't recording.
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Tom-D said:
How many turboprops do you know that do not have a recording tack?

Or how many GA aircraft have squat switches ?

Let's stay real.
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I've never seen a turboprop with a tach time.



Plenty of GA planes have squat switches.
 
James331 said:
I've never seen a turboprop with a tach time.



Plenty of GA planes have squat switches.
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Then Hobbs, for the purpose of this thread they will be the method tracking time. Other wise how do you tell when any inspection is due.
 
Tom-D said:
Then Hobbs, for the purpose of this thread they will be the method tracking time. Other wise how do you tell when any inspection is due.
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Exactly, they use a Hobbs, I see them come on with oil pressure, squat switch, or air switch.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, they use a Hobbs, I see them come on with oil pressure, squat switch, or air switch.
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I really don't care what they use, that wasn't the question.

Which by the way, was already answered.
 
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