Jane Fonda admits Hanoi Jane visit betrayed US Soldiers

[Greebo]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7349099/

NEW YORK - Jane Fonda says her 1972 visit to a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun site, an incident that brought her the nickname “Hanoi Jane,” was a “betrayal” of American forces and of the “country that gave me privilege.”

“The image of Jane Fonda, ‘Barbarella,’ Henry Fonda’s daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine,” Fonda told Lesley Stahl in a “60 Minutes” interview that will air Sunday night.

Fonda, whose memoir “Jane Fonda: My Life So Far” comes out next week, said she did not regret meeting with American POWs in North Vietnam or making broadcasts on Radio Hanoi. “Our government was lying to us and men were dying because of it, and I felt I had to do anything that I could to expose the lies and help end the war,” she said.

But she said she wouldn't make the same sort of broadcasts in Iraq today.

"I don't think it's the same situation at all. When I went [to North Vietnam] ... we had been fighting in Vietnam for eight years. The majority of Americans ... [and] Congress opposed the war. It was a desperate time," she said, according to CBS News' Web site.

Solicited call girls
Also on “60 Minutes,” Fonda acknowledged that she had participated in sexual threesomes, at the encouragement of her first husband, French film director Roger Vadim.

"One night Vadim brought another woman into my bed and I went along with it. ... I'm competitive ... I was going to keep up with the Joneses. It was the '60s and whatever," she said.

She told the program she isn't sure if she enjoyed the ménage à trois, but said she consented because she worried he would leave her otherwise.

Fonda told CBS she even solicited the call girls herself, using her experience from her Oscar-winning role as a prostitute in "Klute."

"Hey, if that's what he wanted, I'd give it to him in spades," she said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

I'm flummoxed. I've been disgusted on a personal level with Jane Fonda for this action of hers for years, even though it took place when I was a toddler.

I feel compelled to wonder at the sincerity - but I fail to see a compelling reason for her to say this if she doesn't mean it. I mean she's not exactly a major public figure anymore...

 

[poadeleted3]

Every time she's trying to sell something she says she's sorry for what she did. But if you'll note, she still says she's not sorry she made the trip.

I think all she's really sorry about is that her betrayal continues to cost her money.

 

[Brian Austin]

Yup.

"Let's see, what will get the most publicity for my upcoming book? Hmmmm. I know! I'll apologize...again!" Media follows it and bingo, free publicity.

 

[Ghery]

You ever notice that the only authors that get on 60 Minutes to plug a book are left of center? See BS, once again.

She will always be Hanoi Jane. There is no redemption for her treason.

 

[Greebo]

Ah. I didn't realise she was plugging another book. I didn't read the non-vietnam related parts of the article.

Ok - disgust at H.J. restored to full levels.

 

[corjulo]

"Treason", "disgusted"

Isn't this getting into the kind of Political tit for tat, partisan ranting we left AOPA to get away from?

I hate to see this great forum go down that road.

 

[Brian Austin]

"Treason", "disgusted"

Isn't this getting into the kind of Political tit for tat, partisan ranting we left AOPA to get away from?

I hate to see this great forum go down that road.

Political topics are allowed in this particular forum on PoA. What sets us apart from some other sites is our Rules of Conduct and the tools available to each user (Bad Post for posts violating Rules of Conduct and Reputation points for approving/disapproving of a particular post that isn't in violation of the RoC).

Civil debate and conversation, regardless of the topic, is welcomed here. Go beyond the boundaries set forth in the Rules of Conduct and PoA management will get involved, unlike other sites.

 

[Anthony]

"Treason", "disgusted"

Isn't this getting into the kind of Political tit for tat, partisan ranting we left AOPA to get away from?

I hate to see this great forum go down that road.

I'd hate to see this forum go down that road too, but nobody is personally attacking anyone as far as I can see. And that was the major problem on Webboard "Brand X".

Didn't Hnaoi Jane make enough money off of Turner anyway? How much more can she want? Oh, as much as Susan Sarandon I gues who is now doing commercials for that evil, capitalist, large corporation, Revlon.

 

[poadeleted3]

I'd hate to see this forum go down that road too, but nobody is personally attacking anyone as far as I can see. And that was the major problem on Webboard "Brand X".

Didn't Hnaoi Jane make enough money off of Turner anyway? How much more can she want? Oh, as much as Susan Sarandon I gues who is now doing commercials for that evil, capitalist, large corporation, Revlon.

I can't equate Susan Sarandon with Hanoi Jane. I disgree vehemently with her politics, but I've never seen her sitting on an enemy anti-aircraft gun, or do anything else of that nature. She's also never apologized or tried to hide her beliefs, and she doesn't whine when people like me refuse to patronize her goods. I read an interview where she tore some anti-war band up because they were whining about folks on the right not buying their stuff. Her response was something along the lines of (not a direct quote) "what do they expect? If they don't want repercussions, they should keep their mouth shut and just perform." I've liked her a bit better since then. Still won't watch her movies or buy anything she's advertising, though

 

[Greebo]

"Treason", "disgusted"

Isn't this getting into the kind of Political tit for tat, partisan ranting we left AOPA to get away from?

I hate to see this great forum go down that road.

Don,

Thank you for bringing this topic up. Believe me, I do appreciate your concern!

I posted this here because I think that right now, our users are still walking on eggshells with regard to topics which evoke strong feeling. I do not want the tone here to be "don't rock the boat". I want the tone here to be "yes you can discuss your views here, so long as you are not trolling or attacking other users" (directly, and also indirectly using broad sweeping generalizations).

The goal here is to found a community based on mutual respect, with clear guidelines on behavior which, I hope, will form the foundation of that respect. We all share a passion for aviation and if that's all we talk about most of the time, that's fine. But if, as a community, we can learn step outside the bounds of Aviation as a topic for discussion, and respect that different people will have different viewpoints, and discuss those differences not with rhetoric, but with respect, and agree to disagree at times, then we will be the stronger or it. (Boy, that was a run on sentence, wasn't it...)

It has been said that such a virtual community can not exist - and that is true for some people - but having been a member of virtual communities in the past which worked exactly as I have described, I know that they can exist, if the community has the backbone to enforce the rules of conduct that will form its foundation. (Yay, more run on sentences...)

And since hardly anyone is bringing these slightly more sensitive topics to the table (yet), I've been making a point of trying to find good starter topics that won't immediately turn into bonfires, just to try and help set that tone.

 

[corjulo]

I consider myself moderate too liberal. I like Jane Fonda, think the visit to Hanoi was stupid but her work for economic justice makes up for some of her youthful indiscretion. So, when people start bashing liberals it can feels rather personal. I'm certain some would rightly take offense if I started bashing prominent conservatives.

It's a slippery slope when politics or religion enters the arena. I just urge caution.

 

[Tom-D]

I consider myself moderate too liberal. I like Jane Fonda, think the visit to Hanoi was stupid but her work for economic justice makes up for some of her youthful indiscretion. So, when people start bashing liberals it can feels rather personal. I'm certain some would rightly take offense if I started bashing prominent conservatives.

It's a slippery slope when politics or religion enters the arena. I just urge caution.

Some of emotional scars we VN vets carry are deep, and we still hold some folks in very bad reguard.

Jane is one.

John Kerry, is another.

What these two people did was to aid and abated the enemy, giving them the will to win, which prolonged the war which got more Americans killed.

For this, I can not forget, or forgive.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Don,

Thank you for bringing this topic up. Believe me, I do appreciate your concern!

I posted this here because I think that right now, our users are still walking on eggshells with regard to topics which evoke strong feeling. I do not want the tone here to be "don't rock the boat". I want the tone here to be "yes you can discuss your views here, so long as you are not trolling or attacking other users" (directly, and also indirectly using broad sweeping generalizations).

The goal here is to found a community based on mutual respect, with clear guidelines on behavior which, I hope, will form the foundation of that respect. We all share a passion for aviation and if that's all we talk about most of the time, that's fine. But if, as a community, we can learn step outside the bounds of Aviation as a topic for discussion, and respect that different people will have different viewpoints, and discuss those differences not with rhetoric, but with respect, and agree to disagree at times, then we will be the stronger or it. (Boy, that was a run on sentence, wasn't it...)

It has been said that such a virtual community can not exist - and that is true for some people - but having been a member of virtual communities in the past which worked exactly as I have described, I know that they can exist, if the community has the backbone to enforce the rules of conduct that will form its foundation. (Yay, more run on sentences...)

And since hardly anyone is bringing these slightly more sensitive topics to the table (yet), I've been making a point of trying to find good starter topics that won't immediately turn into bonfires, just to try and help set that tone.

Here Hear Chuck !

ALL subjects of modern life are related to aviation so no sweat with the categories or being overly sensitive to others unpredictable and varying sensitivities but in this case specifically, Jane was after all, sitting on an anti-aircraft gun.

Furthermore, if compound and complex sentences were good enough for Earnest K. Gann, then they're good enough for us.

 

[Anthony]

I consider myself moderate too liberal. I like Jane Fonda, think the visit to Hanoi was stupid but her work for economic justice makes up for some of her youthful indiscretion. So, when people start bashing liberals it can feels rather personal. I'm certain some would rightly take offense if I started bashing prominent conservatives.

It's a slippery slope when politics or religion enters the arena. I just urge caution.

Dan. I enjoy your opposing viewpoint. I view this as the kindler/gentler forum. If you bash conservative icons, I promise not to take it personally. More than anything we enjoy aviation and that's far more important than politics, although one can argue that some political viewpoints are harmful to aviation, both liberal and conservative.

I applaud Chuck and Brian in their attempt to foster intelligent, coherent, civilized discussion of all topics.

Now, vote Republican or die!

 

[lsimonds]

Did any of you see "The Aviator"? I love movies, and this is a good one. There was a great line in the film...the earlier posts in this thread about $$$ got me thinking about it...when Hughes visited Hepburn's old money family up East. Hepburn's mother made a remark that money wasn't important to them, they didn't discuss it. Hughes response was, "That's because you have it" Great line! It's easy to keep social issues as pets when a person is comfortably insulated by affluence.

I suppose the liberals and conservatives keep each other a little more honest than we would be without one another. I think I'll watch that Fonda interview Sunday night and see how sincere she seems. Whether the woman has an altruistic motive or not, at least it's one "Hollywood personality" singing a little different tune than I've heard from most of the rest about Iraq. I have to hand it to Tom Cruise...I believe he told the press his politics were his private business. Now THAT I respect (and I'm not just swooning because the man owns a P51!)

One of the best managers I ever worked for told me that if we always agreed, then only one of us was doing the thinking. I believe this, even though I secretly smile on the inside, knowing I'm right

 

[corjulo]

Some of emotional scars we VN vets carry are deep, and we still hold some folks in very bad reguard.

OK, In the spirited of respectful discourse....

Are the scares because of them? or are they the product of the reality of war.....or both? I have friends who fought in VN who hold Kerry and Fonda in high regard. I knows others who sincerely hate them.

For those of us too young to clearly remember vietnam it is extremely confusing to understand what to believe. I know the answer can't be found in blowhards like Rush Limbauh or Michael Moore. But, everything I have read about the war leads me to conclude Johnson got us into a disaster from the get go. Nothing Fonda or ex-vets activists like Kerry did had any influence at all on the outcome. Did it? Heck, given the way that South East Asia turned out you could argue we won the war. Vietnam is still a domino that never fell over.

Now, the part about Jane being involved in a three way, well, I never said she wasn't a slut :cheerio:

 

[Tom-D]

1968 returning from a 13 month cruise the Coral Sea, CVA 43 was coming into San Francisco Bay to dock at her home port of NAS Alameda. The Rail was manned by sailors dressed in their Whites.

AS the ship passed under the Golden Gate bridge the Group known as the VN vets against the War, dumped 30 gallon trash cans full of cow manure on the flight deck then threw the trash can too.

Can you think how bad a sailor got hurt by one trash can?
Can you imagine how it makes you feel to have your country men insult you like that?

I won't try to rationalize the politics of VN, But 58 thousand men and women died there, many people have stated that we had Charlie on the run and was winning until the news media gave hope for the enemy to hang on, Jane was a small portion of that. But it was well publicized and it was a place to point the finger.

 

[Brian Austin]

Now, the part about Jane being involved in a three way, well, I never said she wasn't a slut :cheerio:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[poadeleted3]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Almost everybody has at least one redeeming quality

 

[wbarnhill]

Some of emotional scars we VN vets carry are deep, and we still hold some folks in very bad reguard.

Jane is one.

John Kerry, is another.

What these two people did was to aid and abated the enemy, giving them the will to win, which prolonged the war which got more Americans killed.

For this, I can not forget, or forgive.

I must ask why the opinions of people in this country are equated to aiding and abetting the enemy? Propaganda will always show up on both sides of the war. They used Jane Fonda as propaganda to stir things up, and it worked. You cannot legitimately say that Fonda was the reason we weren't doing well in Vietnam. Furthermore, John Kerry speaking on atrocities committed by soldiers on our side is not aiding the enemy. Regardless of if other countries adhere to rules of engagement and the Geneva Conventions, we must. We cannot allow ourselves to become barbaric.

Yes, it feels bad if you fight in a war (whether you want to or not) and come home to people calling you a murderer or any other of a range of terms that I won't post here. But to say you won't forget or forgive them as if they've done something evil and atrocious by expressing their views and opinions is grossly inconsistent with the soldier's purpose. You constantly hear "Soldiers die for you to have the rights that you do", but then to hear someone say "I can't forgive them for what they did" when what they "did" was their right is just completely contradictory.

People will always disagree, from the most rich, famous, and powerful down to the local broke college student (like me). Let's not state a hatred against someone based upon their opinions, regardless of who they are, or who spun it to fit their agenda.

 

[Anthony]

People will always disagree, from the most rich, famous, and powerful down to the local broke college student (like me). Let's not state a hatred against someone based upon their opinions, regardless of who they are, or who spun it to fit their agenda.

The problem comes when those opinions turn in to actions, legislation or judicial decisions and effect the basic life style of the ones that have differing viewpoints. The hatred comes from one side or another's will to control the other and deprive them of basic liberty we should all enjoy.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I've tried to stay out of this, but will chime in a little.



VN war was a time of great dissention in our country. Political leaders had lied or deceived the American public on the war and other issues. The war was not going well and a lot of fine young people in the military were coming home injured or in body bags. There were open protests which became confrontational. Active duty military forces were used to quell some 'riots'.



In the midst of this, if you were on active duty (as I was) you were sworn to protect and defend and the President was Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Those of us risking our lives 'for our country' in RVN where placed in a real compromising position. Those in leadership roles (like me, especially toward the end of the war) didn't want to lose one man in a war that might have no meaning or actually not be supported by the American public. These issues caused emotions to heighten even over and above the high state they were already in while facing life and death in the field each day. The combat arms and especially the Infantry, fight a very dirty and personal war compared to some other folks. We saw the result of combat up close and personal; not on a TV screen or from a distance. The North Vietnamese were our enemy. We went on operations with the intent of killing as many as we could. They were killing U.S. troops daily.



Jane and friends went to visit the North while we were at war. The were idealistic, and naive. For those that looked at the North as the enemy (while risking their life), they went to the enemy during time of war without authorization to assist and abet them. Jane, Tommy and friends did not know what negotiations were taking place. They did not know what military operations were taking place (we were bombing the north). They had no intelligence assets to know if they were being lied to. Their actions could have raised the hopes and sprit of the North and their leaders—openly pointed to dissent among American leadership.



Next thing we know, there is Hanoi Jane on the front of all the newspapers telling everyone how the U.S. was wrong to bomb the poor North Vietnamese! Read a book by one of our prisoners of war and you will find they were tortured as a direct result of her visit!!! She came back and told everyone how well the North was treating our prisoners. She fuels protests where active duty military folks were called “baby killers”



She was a stupid b^$$@#. Some folks will never forgive her. As a former Special Ops guy my first tour and infantry company commander my second, her actions hurt me deeply. As a matter of fact, there was a time when if she had crossed my path out on an operation, I would have viewed her as an enemy.



Most of us have moved on in our lives and put things like this behind us. We've had enemy commanders come over here recently and discussed what happened on operations and there is a bond as we were each soldiers doing our job. There is mutual respect in cases. There is none for her. Her actions may have directly harmed POWs in the North. If she helped the enemy in any manner, it could have cost a young person in our military their life.



Some folks will never forgive Jane Fonda for what she did and the harm she caused especially to some POWs. To others, she may have helped get us out of that hell hole before even more lives were lost.



On the one hand, I’m very grateful protestors at home helped get us out of there; on the other, the manner is which she did it was completely unacceptable.


End of rant!! Eyes forward. Parade Rest!


Best,



Dave

(Former U.S. Army infantry officer)

 

[Anthony]

Dave,

When I read post like yours I feel deeply inadequate as an American. Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Some of emotional scars we VN vets carry are deep, and we still hold some folks in very bad reguard.

Jane is one.

John Kerry, is another.

What these two people did was to aid and abated the enemy, giving them the will to win, which prolonged the war which got more Americans killed.

For this, I can not forget, or forgive.

Amen. I saw a bumper sticker a few years back on a pickup. It said:

"I'll forgive Jane Fonda the day the Jews forgive Hitler."

I emailed that to some of the guys from my old company. The company Commander responded with:

"He's more forgiving than I...."

Former Grunt, 1st Cav, 1969, RVN.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave,

When I read post like yours I feel deeply inadequate as an American. Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

Anthony:



We are each called to do things in our life Anthony. I’m sure you will be face with different challenges that test you metals’ temper.



My Father served in WWII that I would live in safety. My mother sacrificed in other ways (not sure I'll ever hear the end of all she says she did )



I served that my country would be safe and my greatest wish was others wouldn't have to. Yet, I see conflicts go on where our young people still must put themselves in harms way.



Folks contribute in their own way. Everyone would not be a good soldier, but contribute things soldiers cannot. Many people gave much more than me. I was just a bit player on a much large stage.



Find out how to contribute in some way Anthony. Do the best you are able. In the end, family and what you have contributed may be the things that make you most proud when you look back at your life.



Best,



Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Amen. I saw a bumper sticker a few years back on a pickup. It said:

"I'll forgive Jane Fonda the day the Jews forgive Hitler."

I emailed that to some of the guys from my old company. The company Commander responded with:

"He's more forgiving than I...."

Former Grunt, 1st Cav, 1969, RVN.

=====================================================
Hey Bob.

I'm looking at the company guidons now: E Company 1/7 Cav. E Company 2/8 Cav. (The two companies I commended in RVN) Flew in Fox Troup; 9th Air Cav.

Gary Owen!!

Dave

 

[wbarnhill]

I would not go so far as to say that her visit directly harmed soldiers. The question to test that theory is "Would the soldiers not have been harmed had Jane not visited NV?" If you really think about it, the NVA did not need a reason to hurt them, and probably weren't waiting for someone's visit before torturing our soldiers. So even if she didn't visit, they probably would've harmed the soldiers anyway. As I said, they used it as propaganda. And as I said, it worked. Soldiers associated her with the enemy, just because of what the enemy said. She's become a scapegoat and doesn't deserve the hatred being placed upon her.

Furthermore, several Jews have forgiven Hitler for the atrocities he put their people through. Anger begets anger, and these people believe, as I do, that harboring hatred towards someone is a self-destructive activity. What does it get you? Nothing. What does it do for you? Nothing. It's an empty emotion. Your hatred will not change the past, and quite possibly will only grow each time you hear anything about the person who you hate. What's the end result? I guarantee it's nothing positive.

 

[Tom-D]

""I would not go so far as to say that her visit directly harmed soldiers.""

I will. while she was touring the Hanoi Hilton she was passed a note which contained a message of names held there.

She gave it to the prison warden. Who took a dim view of this and beat each and every one in his custody.

Pete Hall was a long time friend who joined the NAVY with me, went thru boot camp, and the first 4 years of service together.
He volunteered for door gunner on a huey, he was shot down captured, and spent an eternity in the HH.
He spent the 3 years following his release in Balboa Naval Hospital, Oak Knoll Hospital, and the Veterans Hospital here in Seattle, He finally died of wounds he received at the hands of his captors.

Both of his for arms were broken, the day after Jane left.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

William:

It doesn't sound to me as if you were there or have read POW accounts of the consequences of her actions.

I respect your view on hatred; most of us have healed and forgiven. I'd suggest you tread lightly when telling people that were there and lived this first hand their views are incorrect. Some of the folks you are addressing were harmed over there; some can't rebut your views because they never returned.

'Nough said.

Dave

 

[wbarnhill]

Dave,

Argumental Fallacy (Ad Hominem): http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Regardless of my presence or lack thereof, that doesn't change that the North Vietnamese did not need Jane Fonda in order to torture captured soldiers. Her actions did not directly result in the torture of the soldiers. She did not order the NVA to torture or otherwise harm the soldiers, in fact, she was probably hoping for quite the opposite. So I continue to wonder why such hatred is focused upon her.

I never said anyone's views were wrong, I just question why they have these views, and ask that they think through it.

 

[Richard]

For all have sinned and fall short. Y'all don't be throwing stones, alright? God will sort out the truly repentant hearts.

Thank God I'm not continually judged by my past deeds. Treason is no more or no less than what any of us have done.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

=====================================================
Hey Bob.

I'm looking at the company guidons now: E Company 1/7 Cav. E Company 2/8 Cav. (The two companies I commended in RVN) Flew in Fox Troup; 9th Air Cav.

Gary Owen!!

Dave

Gary Owen, Dave!

D Co, 5/7 Cav. I joined the company shortly after the Cav moved south to III Corps.

 

[bbchien]

I have to agree more with Dave and TD. But I don't want to relive the past. There are a few tens of thousands doing that right now, and for the forseeable years to come.

It's much harder to completely put away once you have had rounds coming at you. It becomes personal.

 

[corjulo]

Because I haven't been there I need to rely on the people I respect. John McCain has found it in his heart to forgive and move on.

I have a question for the VN vets. Do they hold the same strong feelings against the North Vietnamese? I ask this because I have known WWII vets that still hold very strong feeling against the Germans or Japanese but I seldom meet a VN vets that have the same feeling toward their former advisories.

 

[Tom-D]

I have a question for the VN vets. Do they hold the same strong feelings against the North Vietnamese?



The Vietnamese people are different from Jane, She was / is a trator to her country, the Vietnamese people did what they were told or they died.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Because I haven't been there I need to rely on the people I respect. John McCain has found it in his heart to forgive and feeling move on.

I have a question for the VN vets. Do they hold the same strong feelings against the North Vietnamese? I ask this because I have known WWII vets that still hold very strong feeling against the Germans or Japanese but I seldom meet a VN vets that have the same feeling toward their former advisories.

======================================================
I appreciate your curiosity and the respectful manner in which board members are addressing this. There are still strong views about this war; what caused it and its consequences. The political leaders get us into wars; they have grand intentions or strong justifications. Our veterans pay a high price for those wars (and there certainly is an affect on the populous).



I've certainly moved on in my life and don't have strong feelings about the NVA--think I said that before. When I go to reunions, I tend to move on to other groups when guys start talking about things that bring back bad memories. Many folks have moved on; some have not. This was the biggest event in some people’s life and they may still be stuck on it. It's a little more difficult to move on when the enemy caused direct harm to you or a loved one.



Don’t want to digress, but if you look at a picture of the guys in my Officer’s Candidate Class in 1967 and then put Xes on faces for those that were killed and slashes for those wounded, it’s pretty gruesome. If you read the book, “Green Berets at War” by Presidio, you’ll see there was more than a 100% casualty rate in SF over there. When I go through the list of dead, I knew many of those folks. My High School class was devastated—those who went in service. My Officer’s helicopter class was devastated. So, my view may be different than someone that didn’t serve or served in a non-combat capacity. Sometimes I actually feel guilty for making it through that war and not having been hurt worse than I was.



I've put posts on the Virtual Wall on the internet about friends that were killed over there. Some folks (that were killed) had no post at all on the wall. Over the years family members have contacted me and I've learned a lot about them. In one case, a medic that was killed on my A-team; until his family saw my post two years ago, they never knew what exactly happened to John and actually thought there was a possibility he was a POW or could come home. When I explained what happened to him in the nicest manner I could convey it, we had a couple of phone conversations. I learned that his dad killed himself a few years after John died. John was his dad's pride and joy. When John got into Special Forces, his dad was a very proud man. When John was lost, he became depressed, lost his job over time and eventually took his own life. His younger brother's only question was," did he die bravely". How would you answer that?? A former fiancée contacted me (actually two different young ladies had dated John at different times and they each contacted me separately.) We meet about once a year and discuss John. She still misses him. I’ve spoken with a couple children of folks that died in RNV that never got to know their dad. At the last Special Operations Group reunion I attended, there was a woman going table to table asking if anyone knew her brother in RVN and could help her find out where he was killed so they could recover the body.



There are still people deeply affected by what happened in that remote part of Southeast Asia. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's the longest war in which we took part in modern times.



So there are still some strong feelings. This was just a part of my life: I've moved on. I've forgiven but it doesn't mean we shouldn't learn from it and that things were done many vets strongly disagree with. This topic of this forum is one. Today, to me, Jane Fonda is a meaningless, lost person. I don't hate her; I actually feel sorry for her. People I don't think highly of can't really hurt my feelings anymore.



But, there are guys that risked their lives for our country that still hate her. I respect their opinion. I coach them, if they'll let me, to get over it and go on with their life, but when they're sitting in wheelchair every day, I try not to upset them.



For me, I just had to move on with my life and put this behind me. That’s my way of coping. But....I was able to do that. Some people are not able.





Best,



Dave



Sorry guys. Guess I should stay out of Hanger Talk.

 

[John J]

Dave;

Thank you for your insightful words. As a VN Vet grunt, I spend time healing and relearning. You speak so well and I cannot thank you enough.

John J

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave;

Thank you for your insightful words. As a VN Vet grunt, I spend time healing and relearning. You speak so well and I cannot thank you enough.

John J

Thanks John. Your kind words mean a lot. Several folks have told me they still deal with emotions they can't adequately express. Hope you're doing well and that I didn't say anything that hurt.

Best,

Dave

 

[Tom-D]

Dave;

Thank you for your insightful words. As a VN Vet grunt, I spend time healing and relearning. You speak so well and I cannot thank you enough.

John J

I second that.

 

[John J]

Thanks John. Your kind words mean a lot. Several folks have told me they still deal with emotions they can't adequately express. Hope you're doing well and that I didn't say anything that hurt.

Best,

Dave

Dave



I feel really great and you did not say anything that hurt. Kindness from people who had gone before me is what helped me so much many years ago. I know of several folks who are still having to deal with emotions. I am helping them with their job related issues that they have. I will keep doing this as long as I can.

Thank you again and I do want to thank NC19143 for your notes

Best Regards

John J