Isolated or Scattered T-Storms Go or No Go for x-country?

[JasonM]

So the next 10 days show Isolated or Scattered T-Storms in the forecast. I mainly have Cross country flights with and without my instructor to do. We have covered just about everything else. Whats the best approach to take with this type of forecast?

 

[wabower]

Visual.

So the next 10 days show Isolated or Scattered T-Storms in the forecast. I mainly have Cross country flights with and without my instructor to do. We have covered just about everything else. Whats the best approach to take with this type of forecast?

 

[Mt10Flyer]

Flying in the morning is a way minimize exposure to the build-ups. Once the build-ups start...building...up...it gets bumpy and more challenging. Isolated/scattered t-storms are just that and generally visually avoidable. If not, time to change plans and land.

 

[dans2992]

XM and realize they are moving so will be in a slightly different place than depicted.

Between using XM and your eyeballs, you should be good. If not, turn around and/or be ready to divert.

 

[Brad Z]

Depending on where you are in the country, you might never fly in the summer if you canceled due to a forecast of isolated or scattered T-storms.

Like others mentioned, earlier the better, and keep an eye on weather trends. Where are the build-ups forming? Stay visual and look for the big ugly build-ups with rain columns below...and give them plenty of room.

 

[JasonM]

So Lets say I wanted to fly from Nashville to Charlotte right now as per this image. Would it still be ok to try the flight as long as I stay clear of the storms. What is a minimum safe distance to stay away from a storm cloud?

 

[AggieMike88]

With the image above, and and the Mark I eyeball that Wayne advocates, I think the flight would be worth scheduling...

Now things could change quickly, so you need to be constantly updating your data....

But... if you really want to learn how to do this... I know where about $75-100 can be very well spent.... and then you'll have the knowledge to answer this question on your own in the future...

And as folks said, most convection happens in the afternoon to evening times. To limit the chance of a convective bite in the tuckus, fly in the morning.

 

[S Joslin]

20 miles away from a storm cell is a good rule. BUT...there are a lot of variables concerning flying around pop-up T-storms. How fast are they moving? How fast are they building? How high are the tops? Wind shear? Winds aloft? Convective SIGMETS, other SIGMETS or AIRMETS? Area forecasts? I think you get the idea...

 

[eman1200]

So Lets say I wanted to fly from Nashville to Charlotte right now as per this image.....

I think the best answer is, call me when you get to charlotte so we can go for a quick coupl'a laps around the charlotte speedway at 1,800'!

 

[AggieMike88]

And if you're going to Charlotte, it's well worth it to go find ScottD and get to know him in person.

And FlyingRon isn't all that far away either.

 

[frfly172]

Agree with the other comments would keep the flight visual .also portable gps with weather.If you can see the build ups you can avoid them or land and let the go over you.

 

[Geico266]

Try and get some experience ( on your own, with advice from your CFI) flying though rain. My rule is I must be able to see through it.. that is see the horizon before flying through it. Rain shafts can have down drafts and lightening associated with them so be careful and watch your VSI.

Don't be afraid to fly in the rain, just make sure to set your personal limits and stick to them.

 

[JasonM]

I think the best answer is, call me when you get to charlotte so we can go for a quick coupl'a laps around the charlotte speedway at 1,800'!

I will for sure, however I was only trying to locate a similar storm map as I may expect for tomorrow afternoon up here in WV.

And if you're going to Charlotte, it's well worth it to go find ScottD and get to know him in person.

And FlyingRon isn't all that far away either.

I'm in WV, so visiting him there will have to wait until after i get the PPL. :wink2:

20 miles away from a storm cell is a good rule. BUT...there are a lot of variables concerning flying around pop-up T-storms. How fast are they moving? How fast are they building? How high are the tops? Wind shear? Winds aloft? Convective SIGMETS, other SIGMETS or AIRMETS? Area forecasts? I think you get the idea...

20 miles on a map like that would be difficult. I think since I dont have the best weather knowledge yet, I will just play it safe and not go this week.

With the image above, and and the Mark I eyeball that Wayne advocates, I think the flight would be worth scheduling...

Now things could change quickly, so you need to be constantly updating your data....

But... if you really want to learn how to do this... I know where about $75-100 can be very well spent.... and then you'll have the knowledge to answer this question on your own in the future...

And as folks said, most convection happens in the afternoon to evening times. To limit the chance of a convective bite in the tuckus, fly in the morning.

I'm thinking these small scattered storms are doomed to mess up my Xcountry planning. Knowing my luck I will go around one storm and get stuck inside a bunch of them since i wont have onboard radar XM or stratus.

Agree with the other comments would keep the flight visual .also portable gps with weather.If you can see the build ups you can avoid them or land and let the go over you.

You know, I am not really wanting to divert or land. I was flying the other day and the vis went from 10+ down to about 3mi. I couldnt believe how bad 3mi vis is. eventually it looked like a wall infront of us and we did a 180 and returned. another Xcountry down the drain.




Boy these struggles with the weather and getting my license have been crazy.

 

[JasonM]

Try and get some experience ( on your own, with advice from your CFI) flying though rain. My rule is I must be able to see through it.. that is see the horizon before flying through it. Rain shafts can have down drafts and lightening associated with them so be careful and watch your VSI.

Don't be afraid to fly in the rain, just make sure to set your personal limits and stick to them.

I have flown in the rain 2 times now. but both times it has been more of a drizzle than anything intimidating. I'll work on that prob when I can see the intensity on a radar screen.

 

[Geico266]

Jason, get out there and go. Scatter and isolated means you can dodge them. Plenty of holes and options. Just say yes.

 

[wabower]

The WX isn't going to change, so if you want to travel by plane you must learn to deal with it. Landing to wait for weather to pass over or move out of the way is cross-country 101. If you know where you are it shouldn't be a problem. Bob B. and I stopped in Winchester, TN, a few weeks ago simply because we didn't want to fly the mountains after dark.

I will for sure, however I was only trying to locate a similar storm map as I may expect for tomorrow afternoon up here in WV.


I'm in WV, so visiting him there will have to wait until after i get the PPL. :wink2:



20 miles on a map like that would be difficult. I think since I dont have the best weather knowledge yet, I will just play it safe and not go this week.



I'm thinking these small scattered storms are doomed to mess up my Xcountry planning. Knowing my luck I will go around one storm and get stuck inside a bunch of them since i wont have onboard radar XM or stratus.



You know, I am not really wanting to divert or land. I was flying the other day and the vis went from 10+ down to about 3mi. I couldnt believe how bad 3mi vis is. eventually it looked like a wall infront of us and we did a 180 and returned. another Xcountry down the drain.




Boy these struggles with the weather and getting my license have been crazy.

 

[Jeanie]

Remember flight watch on 122.0 also for Wx help if you don't have on board Wx. I called them up on our trip home from Mississippi and he gave e a heading to help divert enough to clear the convection. I ended up landing as a precaution and got fuel, checked the radar and then departed again.

Anyway, don't get too discouraged its challenging and if you go out in it a little and see how it goes with your CFI that would be helpful for future reference.

 

[Clark1961]

Also be aware of what part of the world you're in and what the tendencies may be. It never hurts to talk to a briefer and get their insight (or lack there of but in general I've found the briefers to go out of their way to be helpful if specific questions are asked. - as always YMWV)

I know that a forecast of scattered or widely scattered is just that a forecast. I'm getting just a little gun shy after a couple interesting blow-ups around Denver. Something about the Front Range area when we get low level stuff from the south or east and the prevailing westerlies up high...

 

[RV10flyer]

So the next 10 days show Isolated or Scattered T-Storms in the forecast. I mainly have Cross country flights with and without my instructor to do. We have covered just about everything else. Whats the best approach to take with this type of forecast?

1. Study some books and watch some videos on weather.
2. Search for TS related post from 2 weeks ago to see what web sites we use.
3. Do your pre flight wx planning with CFI. Set minimums/stick with them.
4. Preflight and top off the tanks. Know your autopilot.
5. Plan your first TS trng flight with CFI over Ohio. Nice terrain/lots of aprts.
6. Take a tiedown kit, gust lock, an overnight bag and have the next day off.
7. Borrow someone's on-board wx. I would not go without it.
8. Depart and compare what you are seeing outside with on-board wx.
9. Fly through some "green" rain to wash the bugs off and leak check.
10. See the plane still flies and the engine runs in the rain.
11.Re-evaluate your minimums. Stick to them. Do not push the limits.
12. Keep your nearest airport in mind and Always have an out.
13. They say 20 miles. That is for you, your CFI and TS separation to decide.
14. I learned a lot about TS flying last summer in our new RV with my family.
15. I do not recommend this method, but we did make two 180's.
16. You are still a man if you make a 180 retreat! The first was most difficult.
17. When a 60,000' Cb is upwind, no anvil yet, 3500' 10 miles out over the
ocean, and the Class C is turning airline traffic away you have to ask
yourself if you answered correctly 10 minutes ago when ATC said, "Level 4
TS 12 o'clock, say intentions?"
18. Do not push the limits. There is always tomorrow.
19. What is another night in a hotel, rental car, tiedown, three meals cost?

 

[mikea]

Doesn't your CFI have to sign off on your solo cross country?

You'll have that opinion to go by.

I would never play footsie with storms or low overcast....even now after more than 500 hours.

 

[marcoseddi]

I just did my solo long it's a long flight and weather changed rapidly on Sunday.. Clear below 12 thousand more like 2k feet planned on cruising at 4500 had to descend pretty quickly to avoid going into clouds. And all the heat and winds starting picking up as there were late late afternoon rain and thunderstorms forecasted some of it came early. It could get a little scary thinking your going to hit a thunderstorm, once you start getting bounced around its not fun! Thank god for me it chilled out around 8-900 ft and I cruised at that altitude right above the beach.all in all good flight went well above my CFI minimums between crosswind and ceiling but that's what happen when in route..

 

[zaitcev]

What Wayne said (in the first, concise, post): you'll need to land. For that, you need a place to land, and you cannot land close to a thunderstorm. So, my approach is simple: ensure at all times that there's a place to land that's not too far away (a big consideration in a 150 out around here) and without a T-storm near it. I can dance around storms all I want, but if a cell camps near a field, then I'm in serious trouble. This may be less of a problem out East where I heard a sectional looks like a polka dot with airports, but still, something I would consider first.

 

[Warrior]

I have flown with 4 different instructors over the last several years. One of them is thunderstorm phobic. If you have one of those and have picked up his phobia I would recommend seeing if you can find one with a little less phobia. I am not suggesting that you go somewhere and have an in flight breakup but other posters are correct in that you can fly around some of those smaller thunderstorms that you posted a picture of earlier.

 

[rkdF250]

What Wayne said (in the first, concise, post): you'll need to land. For that, you need a place to land, and you cannot land close to a thunderstorm. So, my approach is simple: ensure at all times that there's a place to land that's not too far away (a big consideration in a 150 out around here) and without a T-storm near it. I can dance around storms all I want, but if a cell camps near a field, then I'm in serious trouble. This may be less of a problem out East where I heard a sectional looks like a polka dot with airports, but still, something I would consider first.

I agree as long as scattered means no visible lines on the radar and you are in contact with a controller. Here in Texas scattered can turn into solid line in a matter of minutes. Not to mention in a 150 you won't be able to maneuver around a large storm very easily. Just analyze your route and make sure you have a plan for diverting including the necessary fuel that may be required. I routinely fly from Dallas ( north Texas) to South Texas and many times I have canceled because of a gut feeling and I was only disappointed once.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Agree with the other comments would keep the flight visual .also portable gps with weather.If you can see the build ups you can avoid them or land and let the go over you.

So long as you always remember that the information on the screen is between 8 and 20 minutes old.

 

[steingar]

A student pilot shouldn't be using a GPS at all. If T-storms are near enough to be any sort of worry I'd scrub. I never scrub for a forecast, but if any of those things are around I most definitely stay on the ground.

A student pilot should probably not fly into rain alone on a training flight, says me. Gentle rain can quickly turn into IMC, and a student pilot probably doesn't have the experience to figure out which will and which won't.

 

[douglas393]

I think that all the advice you are getting is great. Remember you are a student, and experience means a lot. This can be taken from both ends. When I was a student I am pretty sure I would have flown a solo cross country in the type of weather patterns depicted on your weather map. I may have flown it with my CFI, but then again I am not sure she would have recommended a flight that day. Now I would not hesitate to go up in that type of environment, it being fairly common in FLorida during the summer. However, a plan B is mandatory, and to tell you the truth I would be filing an IFR plan for anything other than a local flight. Also remember that the picture on Nexrad is not what is happening now and can be over 15 minutes old, and the age posted is not the age of the picture from when you are seeing it, but the age the picture was when it was posted by Nexrad.

As for rain, light rain is not a major issue. However anything stronger can limit visibility significantly and should be avoided if you are VFR. I have not seen a good correlation between the strength of the rain falling, and turbulence, and have been in situations with light rain or drizzle and have been bounced around quite significantly, and then have been in situations(IMC on IFR plan) where the rain was moderate to heavy and there was minimal to no chop. I do not know what others have experience with this and others may have other experiences.

Remember, that for us flying is not mandatory, and opting to fly is ALWAYS an option.

 

[Jaybird180]

A student pilot shouldn't be using a GPS at all. If T-storms are near enough to be any sort of worry I'd scrub. I never scrub for a forecast, but if any of those things are around I most definitely stay on the ground.

A student pilot should probably not fly into rain alone on a training flight, says me. Gentle rain can quickly turn into IMC, and a student pilot probably doesn't have the experience to figure out which will and which won't.

This is not the thread to discuss that.

 

[guardrail]

I just did a solo X-country this weekend in Florida with weather similar to this. Started early but still had to delay at one of my stops about an hour for some things to push through. I used fligh following, asking for weather updates and kept my re-route airports list close at hand. There were two points where I gave my self the 2 min warning to divert but in each case the visibility through precip became clear enough I was comfortable. The last 30 miles were bumpy but it was a great trip with a lot learned!

 

[steingar]

This is not the thread to discuss that.

I saw folks urging the OP to use XM on his GPS. Seemed like a good time for the sentiment.

Hey look, some of my training took place in the dead of a northern winter. I couldn't fly every day or every week. But I certainly didn't go up into anything that even approached questionable.

 

[wabower]

Get a grip.

A student pilot shouldn't be using a GPS at all. If T-storms are near enough to be any sort of worry I'd scrub. I never scrub for a forecast, but if any of those things are around I most definitely stay on the ground.

A student pilot should probably not fly into rain alone on a training flight, says me. Gentle rain can quickly turn into IMC, and a student pilot probably doesn't have the experience to figure out which will and which won't.

 

[douglas393]

A student pilot shouldn't be using a GPS at all.

Not being a CFI or DPE I may be totally off base here, but I thought that the PTS requires the student to be familiar with the use of everything the plane that is being flown has. I was also under the impression that if there is GPS in the plane its use can and will be tested during the checkride.

Now do not get me wrong, I feel as strongly as the next guy about the importance of dead reckoning, and pilotage, and utilize this on every flight, but I do not ever recall reading anyplace that said that student pilots cannot not use GPS.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Do what your instructor says. You're flying under his certificate.

Having said that, you're flying visually. XM and ADS-B are great, but the key is looking outside. As the build ups clump together, you can still fly under the storms and maneuver around the rain shafts. The key is visibility. If it starts to drop or if the gap between the base of the storms narrows, it's time to go to plan B. You can go around, you can land short and wait out the storms or turn around. The key is to be flexible. Don't try this at night either.

 

[comanchepilot]

Avoiding thunderstorms.

1. Is it thundering and lightning and raining right now?

YES: You have a thunderstorm - don't fly.

NO: Move on to Question 2.

2: Is the sky darK?

Yes: Is it night time?
Yes: Move on the #3
NO: You might have a thunderstorm - look around.

3. Is the sky blue:

NO: Is it cloudy? YES: Do you have VFR and log book minima? Can you fly?
YES: Not much chance of thunderstorms.


4. Can you see tall white or grey clouds?
NO: It is safe to fly from a thunderstorm perspective.
YES: Are they close together and is the wind blowing? YES - reconsider.


Stay out the clouds - and you will stay out of the thunderstorms -

You need to start paying attention - the thunderstorms that are diurnal tend to form in the same places day after day - over hills, near where air converges, ridgelines, etc.

 

[steingar]

Get a grip.

You think student pilots shouldn't rely on pilotage?

 

[wabower]

Should I make him use a pay phone to call and reserve the plane?

You think student pilots shouldn't rely on pilotage?

 

[Warrior]

Should I make him use a pay phone to call and reserve the plane?

We ran into a discussion about technology in my flying club a number of years ago. Someone suggested in our newsletter to prop the plane if the battery was dead in order to not lose the flight time of the airplane.

Of course on the red board we got into a discussion about propping and most would not think this was a good idea today. And one day when flying the club plane a member confronted us and said our insurance was high enough and please don't prop the plane.

I suspect among those reading this thread there would be folks comfortable with propping and those not comfortable.


My dad trained in the 30s and was comfortable with propping. He taught me and my buddy how to prop and I am comfortable with that also.

 

[RV10flyer]

See my note 3 & 5. I recommend flying with a CFI to become comfortable with weather, not solo student flights. All of my initial flight training was during close to perfect weather. If one plans to spend all of their flying time locally, then yes it is easy to look outside for a go/no-go decision. I planned on doing some long xc flights with family, so after flight training I found two IFR rated CFI's to go out with me. Until I flew in MVFR conditions, rain, snow, TS, I did not know what it would be like. Glad I was with a CFI. It also allows time to learn xm or ads-b wx while your CFI is on the controls. I think we would have less accidents if CFI's, student pilots, private pilots shared some time in not so perfect wx and loading conditions. How many are like me and get more training before diving in solo?

 

[kyleb]

See my note 3 & 5. I recommend flying with a CFI to become comfortable with weather, not solo student flights. All of my initial flight training was during close to perfect weather. If one plans to spend all of their flying time locally, then yes it is easy to look outside for a go/no-go decision. I planned on doing some long xc flights with family, so after flight training I found two IFR rated CFI's to go out with me. Until I flew in MVFR conditions, rain, snow, TS, I did not know what it would be like. Glad I was with a CFI. It also allows time to learn xm or ads-b wx while your CFI is on the controls. I think we would have less accidents if CFI's, student pilots, private pilots shared some time in not so perfect wx and loading conditions. How many are like me and get more training before diving in solo?

This.

A solo student doesn't need to mess with t-storms. A solo student is trying to manage the aircraft or trying to manage a navigation task. Adding weather to the mix is asking for trouble.

Dabble with weather in the local area, preferably with an instructor aboard. Alternately, hitch x/c rides with experienced hands who can talk you through what you and they are seeing and their decision making process on how to handle the weather.

I had several hundred hours of VFR X/C under my belt before I got comfortable with identifying what I was seeing and knowing how to put together an effective course of action given the conditions.

 

[JasonM]

Well.. We went up today with the forecast as described. I'm glad we went up. Had to steer around a few storm clouds in the distance but very manageable. I do however agree with some of the posters here and will be avoiding these days as a student on solo cross country flights.