Is there a time limit on a primary student's experience?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Sierra_Hotel, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This is my first kinda-start-to-finish student as a new CFI so I'm trying to avoid screwing this up :biggrin:

    My student has almost 200 hours of experience in the Philippines from 2011-2013 but received his US citizenship and moved here before finishing the rating there. Now he wants to finish up to submit an ANG pilot application package.

    So far, in my scouring of the regs, the only time limit I see is the 3 hours of prep for the checkride within the 60 days preceding the checkride. He's got a bunch of cross country and solo time already that fulfill the requirements for 61.109.

    However, as I type this out I realize it's a moot point anyway because it occurs to me that none of the log entries from his past experience have an instructor endorsement. That's gonna be some ****ty news for him. I originally wanted to make sure there weren't any other gotchas that would preclude us from counting his previous flight hours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  2. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    That conversation with your student isn't going to be fun at all.

    But silver lining will be he should be past the rough edge phase of learning the skills and just need ACS level polishing. Hopefully progress will be rapid.
     
  3. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah....that's a whole different issue :frown3:
     
  4. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You were still going to have to check him out on everything anyway before endorsing him for the check ride, so I’m not seeing much of a difference.
     
  5. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    It's not as if one couldn't email the instructor and get affirmation of the flight experience. The Philippines isn't backward (at least, much of it isn't.)
     
  6. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If the instructor didn't sign the logbook, instruction didn't happen.
    You're right about time limits. Only thing that expires is the test prep 60 day thing you mention.
     
  7. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Right, but every bit helps when he has (on paper) a lot of experience that could have applied.
     
  8. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude

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    If the student actually has that much time, he should get his solo endorsement pretty fast and imagine he'll consume much of his minimal hours requirement learning USA airspace, demonstrating proficiency with English, familiarization with radio work and solo x-country practice. Just a guess.
     
  9. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    The key phrase is "authorized instructor." Having done a number of foreign pilot conversions for the FAA, I can tell you that "time as a pilot," "flight time," etc. count. Certain other types of experience, mostly solo, may also count. But the training required by 14 CFR 61.109 must be accomplished with an authorized instructor which means that the instructor holds an FAA flight instructor certificate. As a result, he may be looking at fulfilling most if not all of the dual training requirements stipulated by 61.109, and possibly some of the solo requirements, depending on what exactly he accomplished "solo," if anything.

    A careful review of your student's logbook is in order.

    Also, I'm assuming his aviation english is adequate... AELS is a hot topic right now so make sure he's prepared to demonstrate sufficient English speaking and comprehension skills on the practical test.
     
  10. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Great info, thanks. No issues with English, radio calls just reflect inexperience, not any language barrier. He does have quite a bit of solo experience, so that shouldn't be an issue, just mainly going to be the dual time. In my opinion his proficiency in the plane in no way reflects 200 hours of logged time, but that's a different discussion.
     
  11. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Cleared for Takeoff

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    Training in the Philippines is lacking in all aspects. The Filipinos serious about flight training go elsewhere, as a CAAP certificate is basically meaningless to the rest of the world.

    Another thing about Filipino flight training. Forging of logbooks is not uncommon. There maybe a reason there is no instructor signoffs in his logs.

    Proceed with extreme caution.
     
    PeterNSteinmetz likes this.
  12. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That thought occurred to me :/
     
  13. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Cleared for Takeoff

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    You are going to find out he has little experience.
     
  14. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah....that's already apparent.
     
  15. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Cleared for Takeoff

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    Unfortunately, in the Philippines it's easy to fake logs and even get a fake CAAP certificate. Some Filipinos then think all they have to do is cook up a log book, come to the US and get a US FAA certificate.

    Once he leaves you he will try to shop around for someone else.
     
    Sierra_Hotel likes this.
  16. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Had to revisit this one. Dude almost drove us into the runway on landing the other day after a cross-country, like not even an attempt at flaring. Two previous landings were acceptable, the last one was just straight, undeniable garbage.
     
  17. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Cleared for Takeoff

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    Be careful.
     
  18. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    How much have you flown with this student? You will able to judge how much work he needs.
     
  19. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    About 10 hours now. He paid for a 20 hour block up front and I think expected to be able to complete the checkride within that.
     
  20. smv

    smv Cleared for Takeoff

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    Might be time to have a frank discussion about his expectations. Some folks cannot handle frankness and I have lost a student or two over the years, but when a guy (with zero hours) tells you his grand plan is to buy a C210, fly it out of the field in his back yard, and (because his plan included getting an instrument ticket) be able to fly all year round, no matter the weather, you just gotta have a commin' to Jesus conversation with them.
     
  21. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oof, yeah that's rough. Lol. I've been careful to manage expectations, and I specifically mentioned our next flight for sure would just be pattern work before we moved onto anything else. The rest of his flying isn't bad at all, still not what his logbook claims but somewhere in between there and the amount we've flown.
     
  22. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Cleared for Takeoff

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    But how is his attitude? Does he agree with, and understand that he will have to demonstrate maneuvers, and such? Does he take instruction from you ok?
     
  23. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Attitude is good, but it being 2 weeks since our last flight was not good last night.