Is there a better location than Oshkosh?

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MountainDude

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I love Oshkosh. A lot. But I only go every ~10 years because of the heat and humidity. Absolutely hate that part.
If it was somewhere with either heat or humidity, I'd go every year.
Am I the only one?

I understand this is very unlikely, but could there be a better location?
I assume EAA wants it in the summer (mid June through mid Aug).
Need reliable VFR weather.
Lots of space around the airport.
...

Here are three options I am thinking of consider:
- Reno-Stead, NV
- Redmond, Oregon
- Twin Falls, ID

Thoughts?
 
It ain't easy. All they need is a few dozen large bath and shower houses, a museum, buildings to hold forums, huge hangars for vendors, restaurants and grocery stores within walking distance, and a permissive government that allows whoever holds the fly-in a lot of leeway. Oh, and the location needs to be near people with airplanes, realizing that 65% of Americans live East of the Mississippi...

So, no, none of those locations have a chance.
 
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ateamer said:
It’s been like winter in Florida. I’ve been changing into jeans and a flannel in the evenings. Plus I noticed I’m having to put on Chapstick frequently. The dry climate and cool evenings are a treat.
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Oh man I love walking barefoot in the grass at Osh. I never do that in Florida.
 
MountainDude said:
I love Oshkosh. A lot. But I only go every ~10 years because of the heat and humidity. Absolutely hate that part.
If it was somewhere with either heat or humidity, I'd go every year.
Am I the only one?

I understand this is very unlikely, but could there be a better location?
I assume EAA wants it in the summer (mid June through mid Aug).
Need reliable VFR weather.
Lots of space around the airport.
...

Here are three options I am thinking of consider:
- Reno-Stead, NV
- Redmond, Oregon
- Twin Falls, ID

Thoughts?
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I was born and raised in Twin Falls. Liked it a lot. Great summer weather, it's high desert, so mostly cloudless days. But KTWF and the town of Twin are a long, long ways from having the needed infrastructure for an event that size. One main runway, rarely used 3200 footer as well, not a lot of hanger space, and no event space at the airport, single road leading to town, maybe 8 miles away, the town has grown explosively over the last decade, but still wouldn't have nearly enough housing options--and the surrounding towns are all pretty small, and fairly far away.

Heck, I was In Twin--almost right under the sky cycle launch gantry--when Evel Knievel tried to jump the canyon, and we didn't have the infrastructure to handle that--and that was a much, much smaller event.
 
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Agreed. I've been to Wisconsin and neighboring states many times, and yeah it gets hot sometimes but a lot of the summer brings cool evenings.

As with almost every person that has attended the even though, and same for those of us that have attended Sun n Fun in FL.... i think it's universal that we all question the wisdom of either location or timing.

For me it's timing
For sun n fun, it seems if the had it maybe a month or so earlier it would be much more pleasent weather
I'm not as familiar with weather patterns up there, but I know I've seen others discuss this point too...such as maybe shifting the window a bit earlier would reduce teh T-Storm potential.... etc.

Regardless, it's easy to question and critisize stuff like this. Can even be fun to do over a beer, but we must realize that there have been lots of folks involved in the evolution of these events and it's doubtful that the decisions about when and where were made lightly.
Also, everything is a compromise....

On that note, read Paul's biography. It's been a while so I can't quote all the reasons, but I remember he discussed it in there...
 
Timing wise, I would think the main criteria is minimizing overlap with school years to maximize participation by families. The latest school closings are mid to late June. The earliest starts are in early to mid August. That leaves July. They probably want to avoid the holiday on the 4th for several reasons. That leaves mid to late July.

Weather always sucks somewhere.
 
chatgpt can be so entertaining
Let’s all go to Alaska lol


suggest some alternative venues for Oshkosh EAA Airventure



If you mean alternative locations that could host something like EAA AirVenture (a huge GA/homebuilt/warbird/ultralight fly-in), there are several possibilities. None truly replaces Oshkosh because of the history, volunteer base, and sheer scale (EAA reports 500,000+ attendees and 10,000+ aircraft annually), but some could fit different goals.

1.


Lakeland Linder International Airport


— SUN ’n FUN model


Closest existing alternative


  • Huge GA event already exists: SUN ’n FUN Aerospace Expo.
  • Advantages:
    • Large airport footprint
    • Warm-weather flying
    • Lots of camping space
    • Strong GA culture
    • Existing event infrastructure
  • Disadvantages:
    • Florida heat/humidity
    • Spring timing rather than summer
    • Less central for the country

Probably the easiest place to scale up.





2.


Merrill Field


The “ultimate aviation destination” alternative


  • Alaska has a uniquely aviation-centered culture.
  • Aircraft mix would be spectacular:
    • bush planes
    • STOL aircraft
    • floats
    • tundra tires
    • helicopters
  • Scenery would beat Oshkosh.

Downside:


  • Remote
  • Weather logistics
  • Limited access for many attendees




3.


Reno-Stead Airport


Excellent western candidate


  • Large airport property
  • Dry climate
  • Nearby open land
  • Strong aviation history
  • Could combine:
    • GA
    • experimental aircraft
    • warbirds
    • aerobatics

Problems:


  • Less centrally located
  • Summer heat




4.


Kerrville Municipal Airport


Great for experimental/homebuilt focus


  • Texas has:
    • huge flying community
    • good weather
    • lots of available land
  • Could emphasize:
    • RVs
    • Lancairs
    • Kitfoxes
    • backcountry aircraft

Downside:


  • Infrastructure would need massive expansion.




5.


Eagleson Field


/ Midwest alternatives


A Midwest replacement keeps many Oshkosh advantages:


  • central location
  • fly-in accessibility
  • aviation-friendly communities
  • reasonable costs

Possible cities:


  • Des Moines area
  • Cedar Rapids
  • Moline
  • Wichita

Wichita especially has aviation heritage.





6.


Wichita Dwight D. Eisenhower National Airport


area


“Air Capital of the World” option


  • Strong aviation identity:
    • Beechcraft
    • Cessna
    • Learjet history
  • Central U.S.
  • Good weather
  • Lots of aviation workforce

Weakness:


  • Not the same campground/fly-in atmosphere.




7. A rotating “Oshkosh-style” national fly-in


A radical alternative:


  • Year 1: Midwest
  • Year 2: West
  • Year 3: Southeast

Examples:


  • Reno
  • Lakeland
  • Wichita
  • San Marcos
  • Anchorage

Pros:


  • spreads economic benefit
  • avoids dependence on one location

Cons:


  • loses the “pilgrimage” feeling Oshkosh has built since moving there in 1970.




My ranking if the goal is


replace Oshkosh’s spirit


  1. Lakeland, FL — most practical
  2. Wichita, KS — strongest aviation identity
  3. Reno, NV — best western venue
  4. Anchorage, AK — most spectacular
  5. Kerrville/San Marcos, TX — best experimental-aircraft culture

A key question is why replace Oshkosh?


  • Too crowded?
  • Too expensive?
  • Need a better location geographically?
  • Want a safer/lower-risk fly-in?
  • Want something more focused on experimental aircraft, ultralights/PPG, or warbirds?

The best alternative changes depending on the reason.
 
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MountainDude said:
Here are three options I am thinking of consider:
- Reno-Stead, NV
- Redmond, Oregon
- Twin Falls, ID

Thoughts?
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All far west/northwest cities, which prevents most of the eastern US from attending; that doesn’t seem very fair to the eastern half of the US now does it?

IMHO the Oshkosh location is ideal being in the N Central US with decent summer weather and accessible to most of the US pilot population.
 
jbDC9 said:
All far west/northwest cities, which prevents most of the eastern US from attending; that doesn’t seem very fair to the eastern half of the US now does it?

IMHO the Oshkosh location is ideal being in the N Central US with decent summer weather and accessible to most of the US pilot population.
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A benefit is that the eastern pilots get to experience the grandeur of the West.
 
Thought I remembered seeing a similar thread awhile back. Thought it was just a couple years ago, but looks like it was 2013. Yikes, time flies.

weirdjim

Thread 'Airventure -- New Home'

There has been a lot of kvetching and peeving in another thread about moving Oshkosh-Airventure. ASIDE from the multi-$M investment EAA has in Oshkosh and ASIDE from the only reason Airventure isn't in East Undershirt XY is that the Poberezny homestead in the '50s was Hales Corners WI, what is the perfect place?

Let me start it off with Jay's contention that it should have a bazillion foot runway from an abandoned AFB.

PRO: Can land a lot of exhibition aircraft like the C5 and a 747 no sweat.

CON: Can land a lot of gulfstream and C-421 stuff with people who think their stink don't...

Some decent discussion.
 
dans2992 said:
Oshkosh doesn’t have enough housing options either…. :/
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But you’re not going to find the perfect location that contains every amenity that one can need. I think OSH hits the mark on nearly everything. Heat and humidity? That’s hard to beat in Wisconsin in the summertime.
 
I have gone to SnF, at Lakeland several times, both fly in and drive in.
It checks most of the boxes, but it is NOT Oshkosh!

I have just missed going to Oshkosh twice, and wish I had gone, but that is life. We do not get everything we want. Especially weather. :goofy:
 
jbDC9 said:
All far west/northwest cities, which prevents most of the eastern US from attending; that doesn’t seem very fair to the eastern half of the US now does it?
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Nothing would prevent "most of the eastern US from attending" that does not now prevent most of the western US from attending. Viewed from your perspective, holding the event at Oshkosh, WI, is unfair to the western half of the US.

My airplane is based in California and I know many pilots who don't go due to the distance.
 
How about Oshkosh, Nebraska?

But seriously, this is a topic that comes up from time to time in my conversations with other pilots. While no location can be perfect, here are some criteria (there are many others) that have to be considered when scouting candidates for the future home of AirVenture:

Welcoming and supportive --or at least tolerant-- local community​
​
Host airport has few or no scheduled commercial operations, sufficient runway capacity, and expansive grounds capable of accommodating a massive event​
​
Host city and nearby communities with sufficient food, lodging, transportation infrastructure, services, and amenities (beer).​
​
Central CONUS location​
​
Proximity to major hub airport​
​
Sufficient distance from congested metropolitan airspace and special use airspace​
​
Reasonable expectation of flyable weather without temperature extremes​
​
Oshkosh, WI is about as far east as it can be and still be considered "central CONUS". And, as a west-of-the-Rockies kinda guy, I'd really like the show to be closer to my side of the continent. But considering all of the relevant factors--or at least, as many as I can think of--OSH just may be the best location available after all.
 
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I've been to Sun-and-Fun, a fabulous event, but punishing heat and humidity at that time of year. California has the best weather in the CONUS for flying or otherwise, hands down, but the Franchise Tax board would probably have a field day sending every transient aircraft a property tax bill (pro-rated for the length of their visit - and that's not a joke either)
 
Oshkosh is fine. Crossing the Rockies in summer thunderstorms would be a death trap, considering that there are always a few pilots who screw up, panic, can’t do Fisk.
 
OSH used to be two weekends. The flying traffic was different then - still busy, just different. Now we cram the same or more traffic into a smaller time.

But if you venture not far away from the airport you wouldn’t know Oshkosh was happening. So the city has done a fantastic job moving traffic in and out.
 
Initial Fix said:
OSH used to be two weekends. The flying traffic was different then - still busy, just different. Now we cram the same or more traffic into a smaller time.

But if you venture not far away from the airport you wouldn’t know Oshkosh was happening. So the city has done a fantastic job moving traffic in and out.
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Isn't it still two weekends? One set of folks arrives the first weekend and many leave on Thursday AM. And a bunch of people arrive on Wednesday/Thursday and depart on Saturday/Sunday. So (largely) two different patterns. There's lots of overlap and stuff, but relatively few people are there for both weekends.
 
Oshkosh is basically due north of the median population center of the country; you can't get much farther north without entering Canada. Easier to change the month, but I image people would complain if it didn't align with summer vacation
 
Jim K said:
Hell, I was cold about half the time this year. Not unusual to need a jacket. To be sure there are hot years too, but I'd say on average it's pretty nice.
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Us too.
It was very cool at night and early morning this year. Windy as heck the first of the week. It was great weather at Osh this year. Only bad thing was not enough rain as it very dusty. The smoke was only visible Sat and Sun, and it was not that bad for us on the ground.

I did not bring long pants this year and needed a pair a couple nights
while on the golf cart.
Wife and I watched the weds night air show under a blanket. It great all the way around.
We did not use the AC at night and only needed it, only for an hour or two late afternoon.
We just just got home a couple hours ago.
 
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kyleb said:
Isn't it still two weekends? One set of folks arrives the first weekend and many leave on Thursday AM. And a bunch of people arrive on Wednesday/Thursday and depart on Saturday/Sunday. So (largely) two different patterns. There's lots of overlap and stuff, but relatively few people are there for both weekends.
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Yes a few campers around us left Thurs morning and by Thurs evening we had new neighbors. We left Fri morning after being there for 6 days. Last year we stayed till Sun morning and caught both night shows. This year we had much better seats to watch it. We couldn't stay late this year, too much to do at home. You know the drill.
 
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kyleb said:
Isn't it still two weekends? One set of folks arrives the first weekend and many leave on Thursday AM. And a bunch of people arrive on Wednesday/Thursday and depart on Saturday/Sunday. So (largely) two different patterns. There's lots of overlap and stuff, but relatively few people are there for both weekends.
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The show was both weekends - Saturday to Sunday (8 days). Now people just arrive the weekend before opening day Monday. Many now depart Thursday.
 
Initial Fix said:
The show was both weekends - Saturday to Sunday (8 days). Now people just arrive the weekend before opening day Monday. Many now depart Thursday.
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Right, but the point is there are two different distributions of attendees, just like before. They are driven by and attached to the two weekends.
 
Anything remotely fair to both east or west will land in the swampy terribleness in flyover country.

East coast has SnF already

West coast has bupkus. That tells me none of us west-coasters care about flyins enough to have any sort of pull on where to host aviation mecca. We should start some sort of local and enduring event before pulling the main event westward.

I had full plans to go this year. Then something else more interesting appeared. I'm part of this problem. :)

I think leave it at Osh.
 
What needs to change is funnelling all the traffic, @ the busiest airport on the planet all through one point. Green Lake was insane on Thursday AM. We were lined up back to the edge of MSN "C". I waited at C47 for it to clear, and then didn't get to KFLD until ~12:15.

Have learned to check flight aware for KOSH before launching.
 
No way would Lakeland work for a summer event. Daily thunderstorms, and of course the crushing heat and humidity. The heat index is 105+ and often 110+ pretty much every day beginning in June.

Plus it’s an Amazon air hub and everything gets put on hold when their planes arrive and depart.
 
dmspilot said:
Oshkosh is basically due north of the median population center of the country; you can't get much farther north without entering Canada.
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Good, and interesting, point. The geographic center of the continental USA is shown to be a point in north-central Kansas, whereas the median population center looks to be near Evansville, IN. It looks like the calculation used to establish the median includes the populations of AK and HI. If a move from OSH to a new location were under consideration, it might be useful to plot the median of the pilot population (excluding AK and HI).
dmspilot said:
Easier to change the month, but I image people would complain if it didn't align with summer vacation
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While there are certain things about AirVenture that I dislike, it’s obvious that EAA puts a lot of thought into every aspect of the event and they pay heed to feedback from the members. So I have to figure that, after much thought and decades of experience, they found the current timing to be the best available compromise, and thus subject to fewer complaints.
 
Roger Wilco said:
Good, and interesting, point. The geographic center of the continental USA is shown to be a point in north-central Kansas, whereas the median population center looks to be near Evansville, IN.
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Rough River is really close to Evansville. Just do it there. We even already have fireworks…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
crash7 said:
Rough River is really close to Evansville. Just do it there. We even already have fireworks…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Everybody will be directed to stay in the lodge or camp as all the cabins will be deemed PARTY CABINS!
 
Loved the weather this year. First time I didn’t have air conditioning in the Dorm Room and it was fine.
 
How about Rockford, Illinois? .
:)

Sorry....having a flashback to my first EAA fly-in...Rockford in '62 (freshman in HS). La Chuparosa, the original Red Devils in the big red Stearmans, Duane Cole in the Tcart, Paul in the P-64, my first ride in a Ford Tri-Motor (N414h). Memories for a lifetime! All 40 miles from home!

Jim
 
Initial Fix said:
OSH used to be two weekends. The flying traffic was different then - still busy, just different. Now we cram the same or more traffic into a smaller time.
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When was that? I’ve only been going since 1992, but I remember one weekend and a week. IIRC, it was Saturday through Friday, but that might not be right. AFAIK, it’s never covered two complete weekends, with or without the week between.
 
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