Is the 200 knot speed limit a lie?

Larry in TN said:
Never had NY approach try to take me under the Class B airspace going into either EWR or LGA.
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I think that's a TEB thing. There have been some situations going into LGA or JFK where I can pop out of the bottom of the bravo if I'm not careful, but it's obviously not ATC's fault if I'm being a dumbass. :p
 
Another fun fact my airlines ops specs(EDIT I'm dumb and the fars) allow 250 in some sections of Class C airspace(above 2500ft agl).
 
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falconkidding said:
Another fun fact my airlines ops specs allow 250 in some sections of Class C airspace(above 2500ft agl).
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I'm confused. What's wrong with 250kts when above 2,500' AFL and/or outside 4nm from the airport?

We do Clean Maneuvering until 3,000' AFL on our NADP-2 profile, anyway.

91.117 Aircraft speed.
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.​
 
Larry in TN said:
I'm confused. What's wrong with 250kts when above 2,500' AFL and/or outside 4nm from the airport?

We do Clean Maneuvering until 3,000' AFL on our NADP-2 profile, anyway.

91.117 Aircraft speed.
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.​
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My bad i'm dumb lol. Thats what I get for being out of the GA game. All the FOM stuff blurs what is a far and what is Opspecs. Guess I need to brush up on the actual docs instead of using a quick ref sheet :D
 
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falconkidding said:
My bad i'm dumb lol. Thats what I get for being out of the GA game. All the FOM stuff blurs what is a far and what is Opspecs. Guess I need to brush up on the actual docs instead of using a quick ref sheet :D
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My personal opinion is that too many 121/135 pilots rely on their OpSpecs to keep them in compliance with regulations. IIRC, one of the arguments made by the Northwest captain who was violated for alcohol was that the FAA snuck the .04% limit in without telling anybody...several years earlier.
 
MauleSkinner said:
My personal opinion is that too many 121/135 pilots rely on their OpSpecs to keep them in compliance with regulations. IIRC, one of the arguments made by the Northwest captain who was violated for alcohol was that the FAA snuck the .04% limit in without telling anybody...several years earlier.
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I'm amused at how many 121/135 pilots don't understand what OpSpecs are, or what they say. o_O
 
Doc Holliday said:
I'm amused at how many 121/135 pilots don't understand what OpSpecs are, or what they say. o_O
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I think they are pretty self explanatory literally just the rules for your operation/airframe. Unless theres something i'm missing here.
 
Larry in TN said:
It certainly isn't right. I was based in EWR/LGA for almost three years and still fly into both airports with some regularity. The NY controllers have their distinctive personality but I never had any trouble with them. Never had NY approach try to take me under the Class B airspace going into either EWR or LGA.

Worst I saw (heard?) was going into PHL one night. Speedbird asked Philly approach for the QNH. The controller didn't understand what she was asking for. When he finally figure it out he gave her a short lecture on how it was called the "altimeter setting".


I got it. I've heard it for years. Keep repeating it, though, and people will believe it is the norm.
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Going into TEB you may be outside of the bravo. The controllers have to put 10 lbs of poop into a 5 lb bag. If you suddenly slow by 50 knots it really messes up their Feng shui.
 
Groundpounder said:
Going into TEB you may be outside of the bravo. The controllers have to put 10 lbs of poop into a 5 lb bag. If you suddenly slow by 50 knots it really messes up their Feng shui.
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Yep, no Class B surface area at TEB so you'll have to go below the floor at some point. ATC can't expect you to exceed 200 kts under the Class B anymore than they can expect you to exceed 250 kts below 10,000'. It shouldn't be a surprise to a controller who is qualified on that airspace.
 
Groundpounder said:
Going into TEB you may be outside of the bravo. The controllers have to put 10 lbs of poop into a 5 lb bag. If you suddenly slow by 50 knots it really messes up their Feng shui.
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More often than not, I’ve done the approach to 6 into TEB...That approach doesn’t put you below the floor of Class B until you’re within 12 miles of the airport. Slowing down before that is the only place I’ve heard any complaints.
 
Doc Holliday said:
My post was something that happened many years ago (late 80's, early 90's). Yes, back then SW was rather known for their rather fast "250 below 10" procedure, hence the controllers snarky remarks about adjusting speed.
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Heheh, your post made me recall those early days as a passenger. The guys up front would close the throttles and get that old 737-200 screaming downward. The cabin noise would increase substantially.

After landing and turning off of the runway, taxiing speed was somewhere between really fast and 'Jeezus!'. :D
 
Well, this thread exploded. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut and stay under 200 knots.
 
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