Is Roundup killing bees?

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JOhnH

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I know we have a few bee keepers on here and I was wondering if they have heard this theory;
The active ingredient in Roundup is Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a type of antibiotic that targets bacteria in plants. It doesn't hurt bees directly, but it does target certain enzymes used in plants. Bees have the same bacteria in their guts, which when destroyed can lead to the bee's death.
 
JOhnH said:
I know we have a few bee keepers on here and I was wondering if they have heard this theory;
The active ingredient in Roundup is Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a type of antibiotic that targets bacteria in plants. It doesn't hurt bees directly, but it does target certain enzymes used in plants. Bees have the same bacteria in their guts, which when destroyed can lead to the bee's death.
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It's possible, but I don't think it's a major reason. Glyphosate has been around much longer than the dramatic honey bee decline of recent years.

I suspect non-repellent insecticides like fipronil, imidacloprid, thiamethoxam, and others are more likely the problem. When applied in ways that don't cause contact with bees (for example, directly into structural cracks and crevices for general pest control, into galleries for carpenter ant or wood-destroying beetle control, or into the soil for subterranean termite control), they're very useful. But some of them are now labeled for broader uses that do potentially expose bees to the active ingredients (or are illegally used in such ways).

The timing of the development and use of these insecticides correlates with the honey bee decline. For Glyphosate, it doesn't. That's not to say it doesn't harm bees if they contact it, but I think it's a minor factor at most.

Rich
 
JOhnH said:
I know we have a few bee keepers on here and I was wondering if they have heard this theory;
The active ingredient in Roundup is Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a type of antibiotic that targets bacteria in plants. .
Click to expand...
Don’t know where you got that, Roundup blocks amino acid synthesis in plant cells.....antibiotic???....bacteria in plants??.
 
JOhnH said:
I know we have a few bee keepers on here and I was wondering if they have heard this theory;
The active ingredient in Roundup is Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a type of antibiotic that targets bacteria in plants. It doesn't hurt bees directly, but it does target certain enzymes used in plants. Bees have the same bacteria in their guts, which when destroyed can lead to the bee's death.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting theory, but bee colony collapse is much more recent than the widespread use of glyphosate, as mentioned earlier. To keep it simple, glyphosphate blocks aromatic amino acid synthesis in plants (as mentioned by @wrbix ). It is an antibiotic in the sense that it kills an organism, but that term is usually applied to bacteria. Some bacteria do share the same enzymatic pathway blocked by glyphosate. My impression is that glyphosate is applied just before planting, while the weeds are small, and later in the year although I'm no farmer. The point is that very little is flowering to attract bees in the fields at those times.

Is it possible they are confusing it with neonicotinoids? Some, but not all of these, have been implicated in bee toxicity. They may also be confusing it with organophospate insecticides.
 
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RoundUp is not a pesticide and doesn't do squat with regard to "bacteria." As pointed out, it inhibits three amino acids that are needed for a critical reaction in plants.

As a beekeeper, I can tell you while RoundUp has some nasty implications (as are some of the RoundUp-ready GMO plants used with it), it's likely not an issue with bees.
We've got bigger issues with some of the pesticides (particularlly neonics) as well as a number of parasites brought over from abroad.
 
It’s a big problem with our produce, which is why buying ‘organic’ has become so important.
 
I'm not arguing that Round Up is the culprit, or even "A" culprit in the bee problem. But this was brought to my attention by a "Master Gardener" at the University of Florida as a possible culprit. I did a little Googling and this was the result of my first search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+...69i57j35i39.1735j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Personally, I am more concerned about what is causing Citrus Greening in Florida. While honey bee colony collapse is a real problem, it is not as serious as the press likes to make it sound. It is not going to end food production on the planet. Honey bees compose only a small percentage of the population of pollinators. It is a bigger problem for people that like honey, which I don't.
 
Tom-D said:
Good reading

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/buzz-a...MIv7HTsqC54QIVzh-tBh16vgJWEAAYAiAAEgJLLPD_BwE

It's not just one thing.

The honey bee was not an American native, it was imported early in our history, All pollination prior to that was done by the Mason / leaf cutter type of bee, which does not need a hive where the contagious diseases spread.
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That's correct; except for your use of the word "All".
Butterflies, moths, dragon flies, humming birds, beetles, birds, bats, hoverflys and many other insects are also pollinators.
 
JOhnH said:
I know we have a few bee keepers on here and I was wondering if they have heard this theory;
The active ingredient in Roundup is Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a type of antibiotic that targets bacteria in plants. It doesn't hurt bees directly, but it does target certain enzymes used in plants. Bees have the same bacteria in their guts, which when destroyed can lead to the bee's death.
Click to expand...
Roundup is not an antibiotic. Roundup doesn’t hurt bees.
 
flyingron said:
RoundUp is not a pesticide and doesn't do squat with regard to "bacteria." As pointed out, it inhibits three amino acids that are needed for a critical reaction in plants.

As a beekeeper, I can tell you while RoundUp has some nasty implications (as are some of the RoundUp-ready GMO plants used with it), it's likely not an issue with bees.
We've got bigger issues with some of the pesticides (particularlly neonics) as well as a number of parasites brought over from abroad.
Click to expand...
The same synthetic pathway that glyphosate inhibits in most plants* is also present in some bacteria and fungi. So it can affect them as well although, AFAIK, we haven't seen much effects on these organisms the way we've used Roundup.

*Don't forget the Roundup ready plants, and some weeds are developing resistance to glyphosate.
 
Thought it was Varroa mites. Which might be thriving because we've cut back on pesticide use...
 
JOhnH said:
That's correct; except for your use of the word "All".
Butterflies, moths, dragon flies, humming birds, beetles, birds, bats, hoverflys and many other insects are also pollinators.
Click to expand...
Yeah we often forget the other insects, when the honey bees have the spot light.
 
RJM62 said:
It's possible, but I don't think it's a major reason. Glyphosate has been around much longer than the dramatic honey bee decline of recent years.

I suspect non-repellent insecticides like fipronil, imidacloprid, thiamethoxam, and others are more likely the problem. When applied in ways that don't cause contact with bees (for example, directly into structural cracks and crevices for general pest control, into galleries for carpenter ant or wood-destroying beetle control, or into the soil for subterranean termite control), they're very useful. But some of them are now labeled for broader uses that do potentially expose bees to the active ingredients (or are illegally used in such ways).

The timing of the development and use of these insecticides correlates with the honey bee decline. For Glyphosate, it doesn't. That's not to say it doesn't harm bees if they contact it, but I think it's a minor factor at most.

Rich
Click to expand...

I suspect this as well based on how those work on other social insects


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
^granted, perhaps fake since they take another glass out, but I assume if they wanted to fake it they would have done so more convincingly.. entertaining video though
 
MIFlyer said:
I suspect this as well based on how those work on other social insects


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's very true. Trophallaxis is how all non-repellent termiticides work, for example. The colony can be destroyed even if it's far from a treated area. It's also how ant baits that use avermectin, fipronil, imidacloprid, other neonicotinoids, and borates work. Foragers do the work for you by bringing the product to the nest.

That's fine if the products are used responsibly. Last spring, however, when I was buying pesticides for my exterior pest treatment, I was shocked to find that several OTC general insecticides with very broad labels had imidacloprid as one of the active ingredients. Spraying that product carelessly (as most people do) could wipe out a lot of bee colonies because it's slow-acting and non-repellent.

I passed and chose one of the cyanopyrethoid-based sprays, along with a borate-based granular bait. I'm very meticulous about the application and could have safely used the imidacloprid, but I prefer not to. I think the combination of the more repellent cyanopyrethroid around the doors and windows for the mosquitoes, and the borate bait for the crickets, earwigs, and ants, is a safer combination.

As for glyphosate, I rarely use it because in the few areas where I need vegetation control, I want bare earth. One treatment / year pre-emergence using something like tebuthiuron or imazapyr keeps it that way, so I really don't need a post-emergence product. I'll use glyphosate if I have a need to, but I seldom have a need to.

Rich
 
JOhnH said:
That's correct; except for your use of the word "All".
Butterflies, moths, dragon flies, humming birds, beetles, birds, bats, hoverflys and many other insects are also pollinators.
Click to expand...

Tom-D said:
Yeah we often forget the other insects, when the honey bees have the spot light.
Click to expand...
Not all of those are insects.
 
I am a bee keeper and have had up to 15 hives. I have zero now. We moved and last year I started up a few new hives. We are right in the path of a crop duster who turns right around over our field. Bees all died. Was it the 24D..idk but I fully suspect our bee decline is due to the uptick of chemical use. Change my mind...haha
 
bflynn said:
Thought it was Varroa mites. Which might be thriving because we've cut back on pesticide use...
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Varroa mites, small hive beetles, and a few other nasties brought over in the past twenty years.
I don't think pesticides used in residential or aggricultural use are doing anything to HELP get rid of Varroa, though there have been some promising studies with some funguses.
 
thomasdr72 said:
Growing up on a farm, I'm thoroughly convinced that the term "organic" is an excuse to sell lower quality for higher prices...
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I think buying from smaller farms vs factory farms makes a bigger difference
 
flyingron said:
Varroa mites, small hive beetles, and a few other nasties brought over in the past twenty years.
I don't think pesticides used in residential or aggricultural use are doing anything to HELP get rid of Varroa, though there have been some promising studies with some funguses.
Click to expand...

There is a publication called "Good Fruit Grower" that I occasionally read. The March 15th issue had an article about a WSU researcher doing a study on Metarhizium, a fungal pathogen. that seems to show a bit of promise. Another WSU researcher is using a mushroom extract. It'll be interesting to see how these do.
 
ktup-flyer said:
No, that’s my point. The meat side of farming at these huge farms is especially disgusting.
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Just because it stinks, doesn't mean the cattle are being mistreated or the meat is bad. Scat from 10,000 cows will smell a bit. :)
 
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