Is it OK to have 2 certificates?

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
I don't keep my certificate and medical in my wallet, they stay in a pocket in my flight bag.

Now I have a 2nd bag for the glider with just some basic stuff in it (no fuel tester, for example). Can I legally have a 2nd copy of my certificate so I don't have to remember to swap documents from bag to bag?
 
I don't believe so. The only way you can end up with two is if you lie and tell the FAA you lost one (that's a REALLY bad idea), or if a DPE fails to mutilate your old ticket when he gives you a new one.
 
I have two: One that says "English Proficient" and one that doesn't. Should I destroy my non-English Proficient cert?
 
Why don't you keep them in your wallet? It's easier to impress the ladies that way... :blowingkisses:
 
crash7 said:
Why don't you keep them in your wallet? It's easier to impress the ladies that way... :blowingkisses:
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It hasn't seemed to impress my wife all that much. But, I know what you mean.

Reminds me of the joke about the guys hitting on the girl at the bar next to the air force base. One guy tries to impress her by telling her that he flies a C-130. The other guy says "That's nothing! I fly a C-150!"
 
I have like 4 certificates laying around. But only the latest is the one that I would show if so asked by an official. The reason I have so many is that my first one had my social security number on it, so I request a replacement with a pilot number. Then I got a plastic one, and lastly the one that has English proficient on it. Never once did I have to lie to get those.
 
But they all have different 'issue dates', don't they? So only the latest one would technically be valid?
 
Having them, and USING them are two different things. If you present an old certificate (that technically was invalidated by a later cert), then you are commiting a violation.
 
Mattew's right -- it is possible to have old superseded certificates along with your currently valid one, but they become invalid upon the issuance of the later one, and using an old invalid one is grounds for FAA certificate action (or worse if the reason you're using it is that your valid one has been suspended or revoked).

Bottom line: There is no legal way to have in your possession more than one valid FAA pilot certificate. You're going to have to either put your certificates in your wallet or remember to switch them from bag to bag.
 
Once again bureacracy provides no practical solution to a common problem, "I have a flight and cannot find my card! And the fsdo is closed, no way to get a faxed temp!".
When they provide no reasonable solution to normally honest folks who want a backup plan then people take steps necessary to protect themselves.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Once again bureacracy provides no practical solution to a common problem, "I have a flight and cannot find my card! And the fsdo is closed, no way to get a faxed temp!".
When they provide no reasonable solution to normally honest folks who want a backup plan then people take steps necessary to protect themselves.
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You can log in online, 24/7, and request temporary authority to operate if you have lost your airman's certificate. What is not practical about that? Seems like a good solution to me.
 
Come on as an experienced glider pilot you should know that all you need to fly a glider is a goofy looking bucket hat with your soaring achievement pins. :D
 
smigaldi said:
You can log in online, 24/7, and request temporary authority to operate if you have lost your airman's certificate. What is not practical about that? Seems like a good solution to me.
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Well, that is something, I had not heard of it.
Link?

I still think you will find folks who may choose the backup duplicate method because
-there is the requirement to actually have a computer when you discover it missing (not all do where and when they need it)
-you have to hope the faa site is functional (there are many times I have been unable to log on with my computer using IE7 recently)
-you probably have to remember some login # or the cert # to access it.
-will the inspector give you the testy eye when you whip out your crinkled piece of paper?

Nah, I think having an exact duplicate readily available will appeal more to most pilots.
 
vontresc said:
Come on as an experienced glider pilot you should know that all you need to fly a glider is a goofy looking bucket hat with your soaring achievement pins. :D
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check!

Actually, the only thing I have in my glider bag, it's actually a headset bag, is a sectional and my glider logbook since I have not soloed yet - but "real soon now" so that's why I keep taking my certificate along. I toss in my phone, keys, and wallet because they get in the way when I strap in. I leave it on the ground anyway, but since my CFI still has to fly with me I'm not in violation, I hope, for the 6 minutes per flight.
 
The FAA is never going to let you have more than one valid pilot certificate at a time because they want to be sure that if they suspend or revoke your ticket, they have it in their custody and you don't have another to use. Kinda like the old Texas Ranger story -- one pilot, one certificate.
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA is never going to let you have more than one valid pilot certificate at a time because they want to be sure that if they suspend or revoke your ticket, they have it in their custody and you don't have another to use. ...
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Makes sense to me.

Back in the day I DID have two driver's licenses. I was a military dependent, moved to a new state, got a new drivers license, the new state allowed me to retain my 'home state' license. That was pretty cool, because back in those days Kansas licenses didn't even have your picture on them. A buddy used to borrow one, and I'd use the other and we could BOTH buy beer. Boy howdy, jr high was fun!
 
If your wallet goes with you on all flights, why not just leave the cert in the wallet?
 
EdFred said:
If your wallet goes with you on all flights, why not just leave the cert in the wallet?
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That would make the most sense - I've done that before, but with all the other cards in my wallet, I needed to downsize. And, since my flight bag used to go with me on all flights, I just left it in there. I guess it's back to the wallet again.
 
Well you need to get rid of all that crap you don't use regularly. I used to carry a "George Costanza" wallet, but I've slimmed it down in the mean time, but I really need to try to keep it under 3/4" thick.
 
vontresc said:
Well you need to get rid of all that crap you don't use regularly. I used to carry a "George Costanza" wallet, but I've slimmed it down in the mean time, but I really need to try to keep it under 3/4" thick.
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Yeah - I know. After a driver license, a credit card, a debit card, a couple of insurance cards, Sam's club card, a library card, and the $3, it's still too bulky. I guess the library card will have to go.
 
Or you could just put the wallet in your front pocket :D
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Once again bureacracy provides no practical solution to a common problem, "I have a flight and cannot find my card! And the fsdo is closed, no way to get a faxed temp!".
When they provide no reasonable solution to normally honest folks who want a backup plan then people take steps necessary to protect themselves.
Click to expand...

How is that different from a driver's license? If you lose it, you have to do without. (Until you drive down to the appropriate govt. office (which is never open when you are not at work) to get another.)
 
EdFred said:
If your wallet goes with you on all flights, why not just leave the cert in the wallet?
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I can tell you have never lost your wallet, give it a try - its great fun!

How is that different from a driver's license? If you lose it, you have to do without.
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Maybe none, I did not say or imply there was. Wasn't really talking about DMV anyway. However......my experience with l.e.o.s over missing paperwork is not quite as restrictive as what I think that it might be with an FAA inspector. Think if you got ramped, no cert, you would be able to continue home like the trooper would allow you to do?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Think if you got ramped, no cert, you would be able to continue home like the trooper would allow you to do?
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Actually, yes. You would not be detained. That's not to say that there wouldn't be ramifications, of course. Now, would you be allowed to continue on home as PIC of an airplane? Probably not. :no:

And I too have two certificates, with the difference being one says English Proficient and the other doesn't. I suppose I could have the old one with me and try to explain in halting Spanish that I was legal! :)
 
Matthew said:
I thought lying was OK unless you get caught?
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Everything is OK until you get caught, then it isn't OK anymore.

The other side of that coin is called integrity, morality, or a reflection of your upbringing.

There was once a foolish notion that a mans word or handshake was his bond. Had that foolishness continued into todays society, there would be much less need for binding regulations. You would not need a duplicate for any reason.

John
 
gprellwitz said:
Actually, yes. You would not be detained. That's not to say that there wouldn't be ramifications, of course. Now, would you be allowed to continue on home as PIC of an airplane? Probably not. :no:
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Unlike a State Trooper, an FAA Inspector does not have the authority to detain you or to physically stop you from flying away. However, if it's an innocent error (e.g., you thought you had it with you but it's actually in your other bag), and the Inspector has verified that you do hold a certificate valid for whatever it is you're doing (they can to that rather quickly via the internet), and there are no other issues, most of them will let you fly straight home (do not pass go, do not collect $200) without further exposure. OTOH, if the reason you don't have your ticket with you is that it's in the Regional Counsel's top right desk drawer, things go downhill very quickly.
And I too have two certificates, with the difference being one says English Proficient and the other doesn't.
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But only the one with the EPE endorsement is valid; the old one is void.
I suppose I could have the old one with me and try to explain in halting Spanish that I was legal! :)
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If the Inspector finds out that you've presented a certificate you know (or should have known) isn't valid, you're not going what happens after that.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I can tell you have never lost your wallet, give it a try - its great fun!
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Actually I have. No biggie, hit the Secy Of State for my new DL the next day, had all my credit cards cancelled and reissued to me within a week - and big deal, I gotta send $2 to OKC for a replacement ticket and drive 5 minutes to the FSDO (ok, maybe 7) to get a temp done for me. Anything else in there I can make due without. (Sam's Club card, discount cards at various stores).
 
EdFred said:
and drive 5 minutes to the FSDO (ok, maybe 7) to get a temp
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There's something few of us have!

I am pushing them to drop all requirements for a physical certificate, they carry around those laptops with the entire database in them anyway. They should be able to tell from the N# or flight plan, before you even walk into the fbo if you are legit anyway.
 
Matthew said:
That would make the most sense - I've done that before, but with all the other cards in my wallet, I needed to downsize. And, since my flight bag used to go with me on all flights, I just left it in there. I guess it's back to the wallet again.
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Well, at least with the glider, you can leave your medical in your flight bag...don't need it with you when you're soaring.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
There's something few of us have!

I am pushing them to drop all requirements for a physical certificate, they carry around those laptops with the entire database in them anyway. They should be able to tell from the N# or flight plan, before you even walk into the fbo if you are legit anyway.
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Honestly, if you get ramp checked, then it would be child's play for them to take your name/address from your DL and confirm that you have a valid certificate and/or (we're talking glider here) medical.
 
smigaldi said:
How does one ascertain the PICs status from an N#?
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Computers!
They can narrow it down with N#, then use the face recognition cameras they have at the end of the runways these days! Soon, in-cockpit cameras and print scanners on the yoke direct linked to the inpector's handheld 4G "Ibookem's"!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Computers!
They can narrow it down with N#, then use the face recognition cameras they have at the end of the runways these days! Soon, in-cockpit cameras and print scanners on the yoke direct linked to the inpector's handheld 4G "Ibookem's"!
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As in, "Sorry Dan-O, you've been replaced by machinery....."
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Computers!
They can narrow it down with N#, then use the face recognition cameras they have at the end of the runways these days! Soon, in-cockpit cameras and print scanners on the yoke direct linked to the inpector's handheld 4G "Ibookem's"!
Click to expand...

I occasionlly fly aircraft with N# that have absolutely nothing to do with me. Computer or not looking up the N# will tell you nothing about the pilot. It will tell you about who owns the aircraft and nothing else.

Face recognition needs a database to look at once a picture of you has been taken. Since we do not submit any face data to the FAA when getting a certificate where do you imagine this database to be getting data from?

Even the idea of camera on the yoke is a little silly. We cannot even get ADF out of the cockpit yet, you think adding technology willbe easy? How many non-mode C transponders still out there?

The easiest and best way for the FAA to verify who you are is with your certificate and a government issued ID.
 
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