is anyone going to LNS this wkd even remotely close to JYO or FDK?

... Technically you can't if the pilot goes out of their way to give you a ride, can you?

;-)
 
woodstock said:
if so, I'd be much obliged to pick up a ride. I'll chip in for gas of course.
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Beth...let's touch base on Friday. My girlfriend and I are flying up from OKV. We can swing by and pick you up.....

Greg
182RG
 
Greg, that would be great, thanks. do you want me to meet you at OKV? That way you can avoid the ADIZ. let me know, it's not that much farther. (and what time to meet etc)
 
Can't chip in for gas. If they weren't going where you are anyway, then you're not riding along incidental to the flight.

So buy lunch/dinner/beer instead. ;)
 
Looks like they are all leaving from the same spot. Non-issue. Besides, I highly doubt Elizabeth would report him to the Feds.
 
Greebo said:
Can't chip in for gas. ;)
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Not an issue...I wouldn't take any $$ anyhow.

Greg
182RG
 
is that for real? let's say we all leave from JYO - of course I'd pay the pro-rata per the FARs. and if he goes from OKV to JYO to get me, why wouldn't I pay pro-rata for at least the JYO-LNS and back leg? is this really a wrinkle in the FARs?
 
woodstock said:
is that for real? let's say we all leave from JYO - of course I'd pay the pro-rata per the FARs. and if he goes from OKV to JYO to get me, why wouldn't I pay pro-rata for at least the JYO-LNS and back leg? is this really a wrinkle in the FARs?
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If the pilot is going from JYO anyway and you're both headed the same way, thats no problem.

If the pilot was flying from OKV and had to stop at JYO *anyway* (say to buy 3 gallons of fuel) its no problem.

If the pilot diverts to JYO just to do you a favor, then there's a potential problem, under the compensation area (for non commercial) or charter ops (for commercial rateds).

OF course, for the Feds to find out, someone's gotta squeal. But generally speaking, you and the pilot are safest if, for all public appearances, he's doing it as a generous gesture, and you quietly chip in to help with fuel or whatever w/o mentioning it. :)
 
I think you are mistaken, Chuck. So long as the passenger only pays the pro rata share of the gas for the part of the ride they are along on, I think you are ok. There is common purpose here, after all, namely lunch at LNS. Where the flight originates from I think is irrelevant in this case.
 
Entirely possible - wouldn't be the first time. :) If so, call it me erring on the side of caution. :)
 
Greebo said:
Entirely possible - wouldn't be the first time. :) If so, call it me erring on the side of caution. :)
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I'm hoping Ron Levy or another 14 CFR guru will weigh in. I'm kinda curious what the correct answer is :)
 
"Don't tell the feds" isn't the correct answer? ;-)
 
Joe Williams said:
I think you are mistaken, Chuck. So long as the passenger only pays the pro rata share of the gas for the part of the ride they are along on, I think you are ok. There is common purpose here, after all, namely lunch at LNS. Where the flight originates from I think is irrelevant in this case.
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Chuck has it correct.

Strictly FAA legal wise, the problem is the OKV-JYO diversion, not the LNS destination. There is no common purpose since were it not for the passenger the pilot would not go OKV-JYO-LNS, but would instead go OKV-LNS. As soon as the pilot diverts to JYO for the passenger and accepts payment for the JYO-LNS-JYO legs (for which the pilot had no common purpose) the trip becomes a charter (Part 135). OTOH, OKV-LNS-OKV has abundant common purpose (everyone is going to LNS for lunch). OTOH, as Chuck mentioned, if the pilot went to JYO for $3 of gas (collecting receipts if nothing else), or to see if they have a pilot shop, or whatever, and picked up a passenger while there, well, the common purpose rule comes back into copacetic equilibrium.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
...copacetic equilibrium.
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Don't you just love the way Mooney owners talk:yes: :no: ?
 
Ed Guthrie said:
the problem is the OKV-JYO diversion
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We'll call it....."VFR ADIZ Practice" :rofl:

That's why $$ isn't a consideration. It's a "do something nice" situation.

Greg
182RG
 
ggroves said:
We'll call it....."VFR ADIZ Practice" :rofl:

That's why $$ isn't a consideration. It's a "do something nice" situation.

Greg
182RG
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yeah but if something goes wrong I'm going to feel bad.

I really don't mind driving to OKV at all, it's the least I can do.
 
woodstock said:
yeah but if something goes wrong I'm going to feel bad
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Beth,

Ignore the anal retentive types. We're happy to do it and there's nothing to go wrong since nothing will be paid, exchanged, considered, etc. I'll PM you on Friday to confirm. Right now, looks like JYO @ 11 AM.

Greg
182RG
 
ggroves said:
Beth,

Ignore the anal retentive types. We're happy to do it and there's nothing to go wrong since nothing will be paid, exchanged, considered, etc. I'll PM you on Friday to confirm. Right now, looks like JYO @ 11 AM.

Greg
182RG
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thanks Greg!
 
Greebo said:
"Don't tell the feds" isn't the correct answer? ;-)
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Yes, it is. Anyway, even if you did, they've got better things to do than worry about whether Beth buys Greg lunch.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, it is. Anyway, even if you did, they've got better things to do than worry about whether Beth buys Greg lunch.
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Depends on the Fed, Ron. If they're some junior GS-5, newly minted cubicle plankton, they might see Beth and Greg as the aeronautical equivalent of Bonnie & Clyde and allocate their entire year's budget working to bust them.:goofy:

(Being facetious. . . sort of--remember seeing a newly minted badge and gun-toter bushy-tailed and straight from FLETC come to our office. I gave him a stack of student loan dodgers to update. Usual MO was to see if we could get a phone number or place of employment, then mail a polite letter asking them to please pay back their federally guaranteed student loan. This one new hotshot, I kid you not, would walk into their place of employment, badge 'em and cuff 'em then haul them down the federal detention center. . . Never underestimate the gung-ho'dness of some of these folks. . . :) )

-JD
 
Ed Guthrie said:
the common purpose rule comes back into copacetic equilibrium.
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Actually, I think the proper terminology would be catalytic, copacetic equilibrium. But, I digress.....

:)
 
CowboyPilot said:
Depends on the Fed, Ron. If they're some junior GS-5, newly minted cubicle plankton, they might see Beth and Greg as the aeronautical equivalent of Bonnie & Clyde and allocate their entire year's budget working to bust them.:goofy:

(Being facetious. . . sort of--remember seeing a newly minted badge and gun-toter bushy-tailed and straight from FLETC come to our office. I gave him a stack of student loan dodgers to update. Usual MO was to see if we could get a phone number or place of employment, then mail a polite letter asking them to please pay back their federally guaranteed student loan. This one new hotshot, I kid you not, would walk into their place of employment, badge 'em and cuff 'em then haul them down the federal detention center. . . Never underestimate the gung-ho'dness of some of these folks. . . :) )

-JD
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I've seen a few like that. I recall, long ago and far away, that enforcement folks from one of the FCC offices would have contests to see how many violations they could write up in a given day. Including the piddly stuff. Sigh.
 
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