rookie1255
Pre-takeoff checklist
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rookie1255
Seems like it should be but I can't find anything in the FARs.
Is an instrument rating required to be a flight instructor?
- Thread starter rookie1255
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For airplanes or powered lift, or if they are going for an instrument rating on their instructor certificate (CFII), yes.
61.183
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(c)
(1) An aircraft category and class rating that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and
(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for—
(i) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;
(ii) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating;
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a powered-lift rating; or
(iv) A flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating.
61.183
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(c)
(1) An aircraft category and class rating that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and
(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for—
(i) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;
(ii) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating;
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a powered-lift rating; or
(iv) A flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating.
paflyer
Final Approach
Uhhh.... so you file and go IMC and/or are taught holds and approaches of various flavors during primary training? Or does the CFI just look out the VMC window while the student is under the hood?
I've seen this section before and it's clear as mud.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I wrote a long diatribe about two of the comments here but thought better of it. I'll leave it at...
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's about the knowledge and teaching, not just looking out the window or even going into the clouds. At one time, CFI was just a rating on a private pilot certificate and an instrument rating was not required at all - like sport instructors today. I don't recall when it was changed, but at some point, or maybe two points, the FAA decided it would be better for CFIs to have commercial pilot certificates and instrument ratings. It may or may not have been for the reason Murphy mentions, but an instrument pilot has had far more training in understanding flight by reference to instruments by the time they get their instrument rating than most non-instrument pilots get in a lifetime. And it may be the reason why sport pilots, so far, are not required to have any training in flight by reference to instruments.
If a spin endorsement qualifies as spin competence, I'm pretty damn sure the PTS for becoming a CFI could easily include how to teach maintaining control of an airplane via instruments, which is not nearly such a complex subject as to require an instrument rating. The rating is far more procedural, weather, and rules-oriented than simply learning how to control the airplane during inadvertent VMC to IMC...which is the only logic behind introducing this at the basic PPL level.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
I am not at all positive about this, BUT.... In the old days, there were instructors that could teach without full instrument credentials, then they did away with that and Grandfathered in some of the old ones without the full ticket. NOW, however, that is not a path for someone to get to the CFI level.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hee Hee...you funny!
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
As an ATP, I don't have an instrument rating, but I have privileges that allow me to be a CFI.
dmspilot
Final Approach
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You have got to be kidding me.
dmspilot
Final Approach
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"Normal" CFI yes, but you don't need an instrument rating if you want to be a flight instructor with a sport pilot rating.
Glad you got the joke, but it's less a joke when you consider that a CFI is more likely to need to utilize his/her spin "expertise" gained from the endorsement while instructing a student than for the PPL to ever use their 3 hours of instrument "expertise" to save their ass in inadvertent VMC to IMC. Doesn't take an instrument rating to simply teach how to scan and control the airplane on instruments.
Understand that, but the way it's written, it's obvious that to become a CFI-ME would require a multi rating and to become a CFII would require an instrument rating, but it's not explicitly obvious that an instrument rating would be required just to give primary instruction.
whattauser
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Whattauser
Only to instruct students at your operation that requires the ATP, correct?
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
No...I hold a CFI certificate, which I would not be able to do without an instrument rating or equivalent privileges (the ATP).
whattauser
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Whattauser
I see.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Even the FAA isn't redundant enough to say that
(C)(1) you need a multi engine rating on your pilot certificate to have a multi engine rating on your instructor certificate, and
(C)(2) you need a multi engine rating on your pilot certificate to have a multi engine rating on your instructor certificate.
Paragraph (c)(2) is referring exclusively to instrument privileges being required for the instructor ratings listed. It's also saying, for example, that you don't need an instrument rating to be a glider instructor.
I guess I just don't speak FAA, because "or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor" doesn't make anything crystal clear for me unless they define what is "appropriate".
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
True...but if you eliminate category and class [(c)(1)], what privileges are left to require?
dmspilot
Final Approach
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Don't quote it out of context and it is clearer. Since ATPs don't have instrument ratings, the "instrument rating or privileges" means "an instrument rating or instrument privileges".
§61.183 Eligibility requirements.
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(a) Be at least 18 years of age;
(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's flight instructor certificate as are necessary;
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:
§61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's flight instructor certificate as are necessary;
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:
(1) An aircraft category and class rating that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and
(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for—
(2) An instrument rating, or privileges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for—
(i) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;
(ii) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating;
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a powered-lift rating; or
(iv) A flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating.
(ii) A flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating;
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a powered-lift rating; or
(iv) A flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating.
A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:
...
(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(b) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:
(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and
...
...
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
You know that's a losing battle, right? I've been hanging out in these things long enough I know 5th grade outlining is a lost art.
Nsconductor
Pre-takeoff checklist
CFI-Gs are not required to have an instrument rating.
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