IRF clearance options near Spokane

skidoo

skidoo

Line Up and Wait
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skidoo
I'm Looking to pick up an IFR clearance on V112 as I come from the Lake Pend Oreille area. Due to the MEA's and possible icing over the Montana/Idaho mountins, I'm looking to cross the Montana/Idaho mountains VFR following the Clark Fork River basin instead and pick up IFR where MEA's are 7000 ft or less.

So, suppose I get to near Deer Park and say the ceiling was at 6,000 MSL, and I am at 5000, how would I best pick up a clearance to climb to 7000/8000 ft to intersect V112? Do I call for a pop up, or can I file even though my take off would have been an hour earlier?

Any other better ways or routes to pick up IFR in this area to keep MEA's at 7000 or less beginning from the Sandpoint area? Heading to Eugene Oregon with some rain along the way and destination and need to stay below the icing levels...
 
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Couldn't you file the entire route then just contact App/Ctr and request to open your IFR if needed from present position into the destination? I guess that would depend on being within the 2 hour window though. Maybe plan on contacting a FSS to file while in route?
 
JasonM said:
Couldn't you file the entire route then just contact App/Ctr and request to open your IFR if needed from present position into the destination? I guess that would depend on being within the 2 hour window though. Maybe plan on contacting a FSS to file while in route?
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Yes.. I was figuring on filing with my planned route, and calling FSS prior to departure and explain my plan further. But, I am wondering how it will go when I need to climb into the clouds prior to being at the MEA or even reaching an airway. I'm not sure if they can keep me near 7000 ft or less until reaching V112...
 
Why not file VFR/IFR,and pick up your IFR portion at a designated point on the route.
 
skidoo said:
Yes.. I was figuring on filing with my planned route, and calling FSS prior to departure and explain my plan further. But, I am wondering how it will go when I need to climb into the clouds prior to being at the MEA or even reaching an airway. I'm not sure if they can keep me near 7000 ft or less until reaching V112...
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I'd guess even with a flightplan on file you'll have to tell ATC that you can provide your own terrain clearance up to MIA before they'll issue the IFR clearance.
 
When you pop up, you will be assigned a cruise altitude. No need to do anything in advance.

Bob Gardner
 
The way I'm equipped (/A) with an ADF I'd prob'ly filed Sandpoint --D-> DPY --D-> GEG Vxxx ................., 7000. The dogleg over Deer Park would avoid flying over Mount Spokane. I'd prob'ly call Seattle Center on 123.95 somewhere around Deer Park to pick up the clearance, as long as you're not over 2 hours after proposed departure time they should still have it.
 
Just remember that when you are already in the air, there is no guarantee you'll get your clearance in a timely manner, so make sure you have a VFR Plan B in your hip pocket. In particular, you might want to do a bit of research to be sure you can reach ATC at 5000 in that area.
 
bobmrg said:
When you pop up, you will be assigned a cruise altitude. No need to do anything in advance.

Bob Gardner
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If I was just going into Spokane that's prob'ly what I'd do, and with Spokane Approach. OTOH going on to Eugene, Oregon I'm thinking it'd be well to have something filed.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
I'd guess even with a flightplan on file you'll have to tell ATC that you can provide your own terrain clearance up to MIA before they'll issue the IFR clearance.
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If I have to climb through clouds during this time, can I legitimately say I can maintain my own terrain clearance if by using the GPS with terrain data. I have a G1000 with a C182/G?
 
Ron Levy said:
Just remember that when you are already in the air, there is no guarantee you'll get your clearance in a timely manner, so make sure you have a VFR Plan B in your hip pocket. In particular, you might want to do a bit of research to be sure you can reach ATC at 5000 in that area.
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Great point! Thanks...
 
skidoo said:
If I have to climb through clouds during this time, can I legitimately say I can maintain my own terrain clearance if by using the GPS with terrain data. I have a G1000 with a C182/G?
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Oh boy

I think they mean with your eye balls :D
 
James331 said:
Oh boy

I think they mean with your eye balls :D
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That is what I thought... But, is there a practical way to get there such as intercepting an airport departure procedure in the area?
 
frfly172 said:
Why not file VFR/IFR,and pick up your IFR portion at a designated point on the route.
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I understand that is an official option, but I have not figured out how to do such using foreflight... Perhaps just an explanation to FSS prior to departure would do it?
 
skidoo said:
That is what I thought... But, is there a practical way to get there such as intercepting an airport departure procedure in the area?
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As long as you're a noncommercial Part 91 operator in a small aircraft, how you get from where you are to the MEA is entirely up to you. Legally, you can use whatever tools you have available (including GPS) to "roll your own" climb procedure. The more tools you have, the more options you have. There are things I do now on IFR departures where there are no published procedures that I wouldn't have dreamed of doing 20 years ago, back before GPS. So, as long as you can avoid running into the ground or anything connected to the ground, ATC will take care of separating you from the things not connected to the ground, and beyond that, it's all a matter of what you feel comfortable doing.
 
skidoo said:
I understand that is an official option, but I have not figured out how to do such using foreflight... Perhaps just an explanation to FSS prior to departure would do it?
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Composite VFR/IFR flight plans have little practical value to the average light plane operator. You do just as well filing separate VFR and IFR flight plans for the two segments of the flight, and opening/closing the VFR with Flight Service while working your IFR flight plan independently with ATC. In fact, that's effectively what FSS does with your composite flight plan, so ATC won't get a strip on the VFR portion anyway.
 
File from an intersection. Fltplan.com even has a field for this very option.
 
I'd just call up ATC and ask for a pop-up clearance. They'll RV you to a point where you can resume your own navigation, if they don't just RV you across the state. I've had SEA center do that to me when I was filed for V airways from KOLM to KPUW. After crossing the Cascades it was "fly heading 060" until I had the airport in sight. And you shouldn't have any trouble hitting SEA center or GEG approach from 5000 MSL around Deer Park. I have trouble on the ground at KPUW, but once airborne it's not a problem. I asked a pilot on a Horizon Q400 about that after arriving in SEA a while back and they have the same issue - can't contact SEA center from the ground, but once airborne no problem.

Oh, and Ron is right. Have a VFR plan B in your back pocket just in case...
 
skidoo said:
If I have to climb through clouds during this time, can I legitimately say I can maintain my own terrain clearance if by using the GPS with terrain data. I have a G1000 with a C182/G?
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How you maintain your own terrain clearance is up to you. ATC just needs to get it on tape that you understand that YOU, not them are responsible until you get up to MIA.
 
I wouldn't make a habit of filing from airport to airport with a plan of delaying the call for clearance until you're a significant distance from the origin. Under the right circumstances, this will result in the facility not having the strip in front of them.

Generally speaking, you're better off using a waypoint that is close to the point from which you intend to actually pick up the clearance.

Filing a VFR flight plan for the first leg has no bearing on your ability to pick up the IFR.

So, either do it as a pop-up, or have a plan on file from a nearby interim point.
 
Ghery said:
I'd just call up ATC and ask for a pop-up clearance.
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That only works if the controller has enough free time/attention to load your flight plan in the system, so it's not a reliable option. You may be told to go file with Flight Service and report back when that's done, and that can get tricky when you're stuck between rocks and a gray place. Better to file before you take off and then just pick up the clearance once you reach the filed point. Better still just to go IFR all the way from takeoff (if that's possible -- I understand the icing/performance/MEA issues involved here).
 
Ron Levy said:
That only works if the controller has enough free time/attention to load your flight plan in the system, so it's not a reliable option. You may be told to go file with Flight Service and report back when that's done, and that can get tricky when you're stuck between rocks and a gray place. Better to file before you take off and then just pick up the clearance once you reach the filed point. Better still just to go IFR all the way from takeoff (if that's possible -- I understand the icing/performance/MEA issues involved here).
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Given his concerns with icing, etc I figured this was a better option for him. The good news is that ATC isn't as busy in this neck of the woods as they are in more crowded parts of the country. For example, I have never been denied FF, and that is a lower priority than an IFR clearance. So the suggestion for a pop-up, while not 100% guaranteed, is realistic in this corner of the country. Note that I did say that a VFR plan B was needed, as well.
 
coma24 said:
I wouldn't make a habit of filing from airport to airport with a plan of delaying the call for clearance until you're a significant distance from the origin. Under the right circumstances, this will result in the facility not having the strip in front of them.

Generally speaking, you're better off using a waypoint that is close to the point from which you intend to actually pick up the clearance.

Filing a VFR flight plan for the first leg has no bearing on your ability to pick up the IFR.

So, either do it as a pop-up, or have a plan on file from a nearby interim point.
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Great points! Thanks!
 
I was going to try this today... But, everything was near the margins of MEA's altitude/icing with some moderate rain for the last 150 miles. The thing that pushed me out was the air-met that popped up this morning for low level moderate turbulence in the rainy area and destination. My passenger is not yet comfortable with significant turbulence, so I opted to drive instead...

Thanks! I'll keep all your ideas open for next time...
 
Ghery said:
Given his concerns with icing, etc I figured this was a better option for him. The good news is that ATC isn't as busy in this neck of the woods as they are in more crowded parts of the country. For example, I have never been denied FF, and that is a lower priority than an IFR clearance. So the suggestion for a pop-up, while not 100% guaranteed, is realistic in this corner of the country. Note that I did say that a VFR plan B was needed, as well.
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Picking up an already-filed IFR clearance is one thing; getting the controller to file for you is another. Maybe it will work, but maybe it won't, so it's almost always better to have that IFR flight plan already filed, and the time savings by not bothering to file it before taking off is pretty darn small.
 
Ron Levy said:
Picking up an already-filed IFR clearance is one thing; getting the controller to file for you is another. Maybe it will work, but maybe it won't, so it's almost always better to have that IFR flight plan already filed, and the time savings by not bothering to file it before taking off is pretty darn small.
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No argument there. But, again, that brings up back to the have a VFR plan B in your pocket if you plan on air filing.
 
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