IR Training XC - more than 3 approaches / stops?

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mattg

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Matt
The way I read the regs it sounds like it doesn't specifically say you need to go to 3 different airports, only that you need to do 3 different types of approaches, and one an approach at each airport.

So, no more than one at an airport so 2 airports (2 approaches is rules out by the "An instrument approach at each airport".

Could I do 4, or more? Just curious because its easy to come up with a slightly interesting flight with 4 stops, but I can't find anywhere I'd actually like to go with 3 stops.

That being said, maybe I shouldn't care, I'm not the one stuck looking out the window.
 
Do as many as you wish, just remember the "3 different and 3 airports" is the minimum. The more you do, the more you're practicing the necessary skills. The more you practice, the better you're learning.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Do as many as you wish, just remember the "3 different and 3 airports" is the minimum. The more you do, the more you're practicing the necessary skills. The more you practice, the better you're learning.
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That's what I figured. Thanks!
 
Based on a real-life scenario discussed in a Facebook group in which a CFI screwed it up and an applicant didn't get through the logbook review on the checkride, remember that you still need a point of landing more than 50 NM from where the flight originated.
 
Sure.

I ended up doing four because Center wouldn't give me the ILS I wanted due to opposing traffic, so I flew the RNAV they did give me, landed, and modified the plan to find another. I would have had only two different kinds of approaches without that (RNAV and VOR).

The regs also don't say you need to actually land every time. You need to land twice to make it a cross-country, but the third can be a missed.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Based on a real-life scenario discussed in a Facebook group in which a CFI screwed it up and an applicant didn't get through the logbook review on the checkride, remember that you still need a point of landing more than 50 NM from where the flight originated.
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Good point, thanks! All 3 of the routes I'm considering have the furthest airport more than 50nm away.
 
Can always do more, never less.
 
Also remember that the flight needs to be done on an IFR flight plan. That gets some people as well. Going VFR with foggles doesn't work.

When I did mine we need a precision and two non-precision, just like the checkride. I also took a shorter flight the following week with a circling added in for good measure.

The more you can make that ride like the checkride the better you'll be prepared.
 
When you land at the first towered airport, chances are they will CLOSE your IFR flight plan and you wont be able to "reopen" it when you take off. Solution is to file separate flight plans.
 
That's what we did on my long XC. Filed 3 separate IFR flight plans.
 
Keep in mind that you don't have to stop. It says approaches, you don't have to land all three.

Practically you'll probably have to land two of them, one for fuel, and one at home, but depends on your butt hurtin' and if you've got really big fuel tanks and a oversized human bladder or relief options.

Jesse and I used that ability to fly an approach at Jabara in Wichita and make sure the ICT approach controller did NOT cancel IFR, went missed, and then did a IFR Visual into Stearman so we could go have dinner with Tony and Leah.

Controller was chuckling at us that we wanted a true Visual to Stearman after the missed on a severe clear night, and that we'd have to cancel on the ground after landing via radio if it would work, or phone (they weren't sure, so they gave us a phone number). Radio ended up working barely.

I had so many other approaches that week, it didn't matter... As long as there were three approaches on that trip down and back, I didn't need another approach for more practice. We bombed all over three or four States for days shooting stuff.

Plus I think honestly it was my first ever true IFR Visual, which gave me a bit of experience for that in the real world, since that's often what a generally fair weather pilot like myself will really get on the far end... The sequencing is just slightly different than a regular VFR arrival, and making sure to pick up weather and what not, in the right order, was worth doing it. Plus the two airports are so close together it was a good exercise in a quick change of plan... Missed, hood stays down, vectors to Stearman while running the climb, cruise, and arrival/landing checklists all in a fairly short timeframe... All a semi-realistic possibility in the real world also.

(Well the weather being bad enough at one to go missed while open for a visual at the other probably isn't all that realistic, but anyway...)

Look on your original "three stop" plans and see if there's a couple of airports near each other with approaches you can fly into each. Go missed at the one you don't want to land at. Have CFI prepped to explain to the controllers what's up, and try not to arrive at their busiest time of day.
 
Nate, you must make at least two landings 50 miles or more apart, or it isn't a cross-country. More than two is not required.
 
MAKG1 said:
Nate, you must make at least two landings 50 miles or more apart, or it isn't a cross-country. More than two is not required.
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A single landing is fine per 61.1. It's "a" landing. Not multiple. A straight line flight to three airports at least 50nm between each and shooting an approach at each, and landing at the last one -- and then flying home in a human mailing tube -- would meet the requirement for the IFR XC, IMHO.

What's your regulatory basis for two landings?
 
MAKG1 said:
Nate, you must make at least two landings 50 miles or more apart, or it isn't a cross-country. More than two is not required.
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Just to be technical, let's use the rule's own language instead of our own. There must be "a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure." (emphasis added).

The "at least" vs "more than" aside, I'm pretty sure it's possible to have a >50 NM leg in the middle of the flight and still not meet the requirement of being more than 50 NM from the point of origin.
 
denverpilot said:
A single landing is fine per 61.1. It's "a" landing. Not multiple. A straight line flight to three airports at least 50nm between each and shooting an approach at each, and landing at the last one -- and then flying home in a human mailing tube -- would meet the requirement for the IFR XC, IMHO.

What's your regulatory basis for two landings?
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He's assuming a cross country flight must be a round robin. Common error.
 
midlifeflyer said:
He's assuming a cross country flight must be a round robin. Common error.
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And just how many of these one way cross country lessons have you given?

Technically correct but wildly misleading.

It is NOT legit to fly to three airports, land only where you started, and have it count, but these "one landing" responses could very easily be read that way. Irresponsible.

People are looking for practical advice, not weird corner cases that never happen.
 
MAKG1 said:
It is NOT legit to fly to three airports, land only where you started, and have it count, but these "one landing" responses could very easily be read that way. Irresponsible.
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I said you needed two landings to go round-robin and one landing to go out and not return.

14 CFR 61.65 says absolutely nothing about landings being required. So the limitation is from 14 CFR 61.1. One landing meets the requirement as long as it's 50nm away.

Want to fly with a CFII halfway across the country and knock out the IFR XC requirements and then head home on a commercial flight? You can. Ride along on an airplane delivery flight many States away with your CFII and knock it out, and he'll sell the airplane at the far end, even... if you like. Then use a different airplane for the checkride.

Or CFII "Uncle Bob" flew himself to town for a family gathering and offered to help nephew "Joe" knock out the IFR XC requirements on the way back home from a fly over state -- to his home on the east coast. "Hop in the airplane Nephew, let's get this done. You can fly home on the airlines."

The only time it's "not legit" is if there were no landings 50nm away and you return to the starting airport and only land there. Land anywhere at least 50nm away from where you started, and the whole trip at least 250nm, and it's fine.

(Or I suppose you could do something really dumb and fly out 250nm, go missed, and come back and do a T&G at an airport too close to the starting one. That'd be "not legit" also.)

It's not "irresponsible" to say so. The regs are the regs. If someone mistakenly adds to the one-landing story that they can return to the starting airport, they missed the requirement in 61.1 for cross country time toward an Instrument rating. It says you have to land. Once. At least 50nm away. 61.65 says the whole trip needs to be at least 250 mm.
 
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