IR Checkride Tomorrow

[av8tr24]

Hey everyone...I've been lurking on here for a while, and finally decided to joint so I can post! I have my PPL, which I received in Jan 2010. Put flying on hold, finished my business degree at the University of South Carolina in 2011. I've been working in the family business for the past 2.5 years figuring out what I'm going to do with my life...surprise, surprise ;-)

Anyhow, back in January, I started looking into pursuing a flying career. It's really my passion, and fortunately I'm able to pursue it debt-free...a huge blessing. ATP and airlines is my long-term goal, but there are so many opportunities with flying in general, so I'm not limiting myself to just that. Will be done with Commercial in October/November, and then CFI/CFII shortly after that. I have a photography studio part-time, and with my full-time job, I'm able to fly 3-5 times per week, so it has taken me about 6 months to finish my IFR. I had 68 hours when I started at the end of February, and now I'm at 185.

Checkride is tomorrow morning, and to be perfectly honest, I'm not a wreck like I was for my PPL. All I can remember was the sweat pouring out of my body the whole flight to meet the DPE, and during the entire checkride. Surprisingly, I'm more calm, but a little anxious...definitely normal. I'd be concerned if the ol' nerves weren't bothering me! Anyway, went up this morning with my instructor one last time and practiced a hold, and shot two approaches. Yesterday, we did a mock oral, went over a flight plan I prepared and the IFR sectional. I made a list of all the little procedural things I forgot, and plan to spend several hours reviewing everything tonight when I get home from work.

Any tips on how to maintain a clear mind? I'm fine at staying ahead of the airplane, it's little things. For example, today, the entry to my hold was a teardrop. ATC assigned:

Hold NW at OMN on the R-336, right turns, 2,500ft, report when ready for the appch.

Proceeded direct to the station, LARS (so 306 heading), flew for one minute, etc. However, after flying out on 306 for one minute, I started a turn to the left instead of right, but corrected. This screwed up the rest of my entry, and I ended up having to fly back to the fix and start the hold. In the end, I recognized my mistake and corrected.

Other little things: started descent from FAF on a VOR approach. Was too high, and in reality to the right of the radial/runway although the needle was centered. ATC had me go missed because I was too high. If I had descended immediately upon intercepting the inbound course, it would have been perfect. Forgot carb heat off when going missed, so need get the checklist out and ready when I demonstrate a missed approach. Also forgot to do cruise check after leveling-off at 1,600 when starting the ILS approach.


Nailed the ILS approach, so no worries there. I am part of a flying club with several planes. I've been flying a Piper Commanche lately, and have done my IFR training in that, C172, and the C150. My ride is in the 172 tomorrow, so I feel way ahead of the airplane in terms of speed/handling/procedures...things do happen much more quickly in a complex/high-perf aircraft!

I'm confident on the oral portion. The stuff I had a little trouble recalling, I was able to show where I could find it. Appreciate any feedback! At this time tomorrow, I should have my IFR ticket

 

[EppyGA]

Good luck, I bet you'll do just fine!

 

[frfly172]

Welcome to the forum,good luck,relax.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

Looks like you are on the right track! I remember I was so nervous for the private checkride I almost puked. I take a checkride every year and while you are more comfortable than the first, you are always gonna be nervous. No one likes getting evaluated. Heck, on my instrument checkride I did a 45/180 course reversal instead of the constant turn toward the holding fix. Examiner looked at me and said, "What the hell are you doing?!" But he didn't bust me on it. You are never gonna fly a perfect checkride. It's inevitable. As long as you can demonstrate that you are safe behind the yoke. Checkrides are looking for the "big picture"

 

[AggieMike88]

Consider the following:

 

[AggieMike88]

For carb-heat, C'Ron taught me to extend my thumb. Push in on throttle with the pad of your hand just below index finger, and push in with thumb at same time.

Missed Approach Procedure:
Throttle Up
Pitch Up
Flaps Up (wing and Cowl)
[Take a breath, roll shoulders]
Trim
5 T's
Fly the procedure.

 

[poadeleted20]

Any tips on how to maintain a clear mind? I'm fine at staying ahead of the airplane, it's little things. For example, today, the entry to my hold was a teardrop. ATC assigned:

Hold NW at OMN on the R-336, right turns, 2,500ft, report when ready for the appch.

Proceeded direct to the station, LARS (so 306 heading), flew for one minute, etc. However, after flying out on 306 for one minute, I started a turn to the left instead of right, but corrected. This screwed up the rest of my entry, and I ended up having to fly back to the fix and start the hold. In the end, I recognized my mistake and corrected.

One thing you can do to avoid this on parallel and teardrop entries is to look at the CDI needle before you start the turn back. You want to make the initial turn back in the cardinal direction toward which the CDI needle is pointing. For example, in this case, the OBS will be set to the 156 radial. If all goes properly on this , you'll be west of the 336 radial, and your CDI needle will be pointing to the east side of the CDI (i.e., towards the big E). In that case, you need to start your turn to the east, which when you look at your heading indicator is to your right.

One advantage of doing this is that it saves you from being blown out of the holding space by a really strong wind. Let's add to your scenario a really howling westerly wind, which despite your 306 heading blows you back east across the radial. In this situation, making the "canned solution" right turn for the intercept would send you so far east you'd never get back. However, since you've been blown east of the radial while flying the teardrop leg, a look at the CDI will show the needle is now pointing to the big W on the CDI, not the big E where it should. This tells you to make a turn to the west, not the east, to start your intercept, and when you look at the heading indicator, you see that's left, not right as you would normally do for this teardrop entry to a right-hand holding pattern.

Other little things: started descent from FAF on a VOR approach. Was too high, and in reality to the right of the radial/runway although the needle was centered. ATC had me go missed because I was too high. If I had descended immediately upon intercepting the inbound course, it would have been perfect.

One thing I teach with the 5T's is that for the intercept turn to the final approach course, I have my trainees hold the 4th T (Throttle) until the needle is halfway in, then throttle back and start down to the altitude to the FAF.

Forgot carb heat off when going missed, so need get the checklist out and ready when I demonstrate a missed approach.

This is one which shouldn't need a checklist -- from your earliest primary training you should have been taught to extend your right thumb out to catch the carb heat knob as you're advancing the throttle on a go-around, and that should carry forward to missed approaches in IR training.

And I see AggieMike mentioned how I taught him that!

Also forgot to do cruise check after leveling-off at 1,600 when starting the ILS approach.

Not sure why you'd need a cruise check at the intermediate altitude on an ILS approach. Just add power to level off, wait for the GS needle to come in, then reduce to approach power and begin descending on the GS. I can't imagine why you'd need to play with mixture or fuel pumps or cowl flaps or trim at that point.

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Welcome and Good luck.

 

[AggieMike88]

Not sure why you'd need a cruise check at the intermediate altitude on an ILS approach. Just add power to level off, wait for the GS needle to come in, then reduce to approach power and begin descending on the GS. I can't imagine why you'd need to play with mixture or fuel pumps or cowl flaps or trim at that point.

Agree. The systematic method you taught of "set it up so you only need to change one thing" works very well.

For the OP, this means that 3 minutes or 5 miles before intercepting the localizer, your aircraft should be fully configured for "approach level". Gear Down, MP/RPM set for your approach speed, approach flaps set, your first round of GUMPS done, and your Approach Checklist complete.

Then when you're inbound on the ILS, the "only change one thing" you need to do is reduce throttle to your precision descent setting. Maybe trim slightly for airspeed. Get stable on the approach, and enjoy the ride down the pipe.

 

[av8tr24]

[/QUOTE]This is one which shouldn't need a checklist -- from your earliest primary training you should have been taught to extend your right thumb out to catch the carb heat knob as you're advancing the throttle on a go-around, and that should carry forward to missed approaches in IR training.

And I see AggieMike mentioned how I taught him that!

Not sure why you'd need a cruise check at the intermediate altitude on an ILS approach. Just add power to level off, wait for the GS needle to come in, then reduce to approach power and begin descending on the GS. I can't imagine why you'd need to play with mixture or fuel pumps or cowl flaps or trim at that point.[/QUOTE]

Again, my instructor was getting on me a bit about the checklist here. I don't know if he was having an off day, but the past few weeks, he hasn't been very consistent with some of these things. It's been kind of frustrating, but once I get my IFR ticket, I can make adjustments to my methods as I see fit....and take the suggestions of others into consideration, and put into practice! Thanks again!

 

[eetrojan]

Any tips on how to maintain a clear mind? I'm fine at staying ahead of the airplane, it's little things. For example, today, the entry to my hold was a teardrop. ATC assigned:

Hold NW at OMN on the R-336, right turns, 2,500ft, report when ready for the appch.

Proceeded direct to the station, LARS (so 306 heading), flew for one minute, etc. However, after flying out on 306 for one minute, I started a turn to the left instead of right, but corrected. This screwed up the rest of my entry, and I ended up having to fly back to the fix and start the hold. In the end, I recognized my mistake and corrected.

Hi av8tr24, what does "LARS" mean? Low Altitude Radar System? Why does that imply a 306 heading to OMN VOR?

 

[av8tr24]

One thing you can do to avoid this on parallel and teardrop entries is to look at the CDI needle before you start the turn back. You want to make the initial turn back in the cardinal direction toward which the CDI needle is pointing. For example, in this case, the OBS will be set to the 156 radial. If all goes properly on this , you'll be west of the 336 radial, and your CDI needle will be pointing to the east side of the CDI (i.e., towards the big E). In that case, you need to start your turn to the east, which when you look at your heading indicator is to your right.

One advantage of doing this is that it saves you from being blown out of the holding space by a really strong wind. Let's add to your scenario a really howling westerly wind, which despite your 306 heading blows you back east across the radial. In this situation, making the "canned solution" right turn for the intercept would send you so far east you'd never get back. However, since you've been blown east of the radial while flying the teardrop leg, a look at the CDI will show the needle is now pointing to the big W on the CDI, not the big E where it should. This tells you to make a turn to the west, not the east, to start your intercept, and when you look at the heading indicator, you see that's left, not right as you would normally do for this teardrop entry to a right-hand holding pattern.

One thing I teach with the 5T's is that for the intercept turn to the final approach course, I have my trainees hold the 4th T (Throttle) until the needle is halfway in, then throttle back and start down to the altitude to the FAF.

This is one which shouldn't need a checklist -- from your earliest primary training you should have been taught to extend your right thumb out to catch the carb heat knob as you're advancing the throttle on a go-around, and that should carry forward to missed approaches in IR training.

And I see AggieMike mentioned how I taught him that!

Not sure why you'd need a cruise check at the intermediate altitude on an ILS approach. Just add power to level off, wait for the GS needle to come in, then reduce to approach power and begin descending on the GS. I can't imagine why you'd need to play with mixture or fuel pumps or cowl flaps or trim at that point.

Hi av8tr24, what does "LARS" mean? Low Altitude Radar System? Why does that imply a 306 heading to OMN VOR?

Left Add, Right Subtract...figuring the initial heading for a teardrop entry once arriving at the station.

 

[asgcpa]

time tomorrow, I should have my IFR ticket

Good luck....don't do what I did and have a sleepless night. Kick the caffiene early and go to sleep early. You at least will not be dealing with Airventure traffic like I did.

Its all a state of mind...

 

[eetrojan]

Left Add, Right Subtract...figuring the initial heading for a teardrop entry once arriving at the station.

Thanks. I'm just starting my IFR studies. Good luck with you ride!

 

[av8tr24]

Thanks. I'm just starting my IFR studies. Good luck with you ride!

That's awesome! It was very challenging for me, and it wasn't until I was well into the training that things started to click. I'd also highly recommend the King Schools IFR study program. Expensive, but well worth it and it helped me tremendously! No, I'm not a spokesperson ;-)

Best wishes to you as you continue your training, and I will report back. DPE changed my ride to 1PM I wanted to get it over with in the AM, but oh well...such is life!

 

[jordane93]

Good luck! Don't forget to identify navaids and keep time during holds and approaches.

 

[Badger]

Good luck!

 

[azure]

Wishing you to be on your A-game! (Luck shouldn't enter into it. )

 

[mjburian]

Good luck! And be sure to let us know how it goes.

 

[Badger]

so.....how did it go?
Are you flying through the clouds?

 

[AggieMike88]

so.....how did it go?
Are you flying through the clouds?

This got me thinking, once I complete my ride, if I'm ever asked, "Ummm, Mike? Do you have your head in the clouds?" I can now answer,

"Why yes. And legally too!"

 

[av8tr24]

So…….I passed the oral, but not the flight portion. It truly was a source of unfortunate events, on my part. One little mistake led to another, and before I knew it everything fell apart. Planned to do the VOR 17 approach at KOMN, winds changed and departure said unable. DPE asked for the VOR 23 at KDED. I reach into my flight bag to grab my approach plates (already had the ones I needed, or though I needed), and stupid me realizes I left it on the table in the office. Also left my phone so it wouldn't be a distraction as I've been getting texts and phone calls all day.

Meanwhile, ATC told me to hold as published for the VOR 23 approach, I looked at the VOR 17 hold, and started flying that, forgot to twist the OBS to the inbound course, etc. DPE tells me to ask for the LOC 7L at KDAB missed approach, then the ILS 7L to a full stop. All the while, i've been doing a great job maintaining altitude and headings. It was REALLY windy here today…was hoping the wind would be kinder to me. Forgot to get the ATIS after ATC asked me to report back, didn't immediately fly the assigned heading they gave…it truly was a cluster****. As if it couldn't get worse, he covered up the glideslope needle, made a comment to me about being able to see the localizer…I misunderstood him….and get this, I felt like COMPLETE IDIOT! I ASKED FOR AN ASR APPROACH! WTH? WHO DOES THAT ON A CHECKRIDE? ATC was like "What? Is everything ok?" Ended up telling them I made a mistake, and to disregard. Then I screwed up the approach, full needle deflection and didn't go missed like I should have immediately. I was so incredibly embarrassed and flustered. Seriously, I have never felt like such an idiot. A VERY humbling experience.

In all honesty, I learned a lot from today. How quickly things can go south if you're not paying attention to EVERY detail and double checking that you have written down ATC clearances properly, and asking for clarification if unsure. Looking back, it was a great learning experience, but I am bummed out. The DPE was very gracious in explaining everything to me and making sure I understood my mistakes. It really wasn't my day today, but instead of beating myself up, I'm chalking it up to a learning experience. You can always ask ATC for something, but that doesn't mean you will get it. This morning, I was so sure I was ready. I've spent hours reviewing and studying, but maybe I was a little to confident.

The owner of the flying club pulled me aside while the DPE was filling out the paperwork, and patted me on the shoulder and said to not be too hard on myself. Instrument flying is challenging, and it's so important to be on top of your game. He said today was a great learning experience, and that we'll work on those things, get rid of the cobwebs, and try again in a couple weeks when the DPE is back in town. Anyway, I hope someone gets a good laugh out of me asking for an ASR approach on an IFR checkride….have you ever heard of that before? Probably not

 

[jordane93]

So…….I passed the oral, but not the flight portion. It truly was a source of unfortunate events, on my part. One little mistake led to another, and before I knew it everything fell apart. Planned to do the VOR 17 approach at KOMN, winds changed and departure said unable. DPE asked for the VOR 23 at KDED. I reach into my flight bag to grab my approach plates (already had the ones I needed, or though I needed), and stupid me realizes I left it on the table in the office. Also left my phone so it wouldn't be a distraction as I've been getting texts and phone calls all day.

Meanwhile, ATC told me to hold as published for the VOR 23 approach, I looked at the VOR 17 hold, and started flying that, forgot to twist the OBS to the inbound course, etc. DPE tells me to ask for the LOC 7L at KDAB missed approach, then the ILS 7L to a full stop. All the while, i've been doing a great job maintaining altitude and headings. It was REALLY windy here today…was hoping the wind would be kinder to me. Forgot to get the ATIS after ATC asked me to report back, didn't immediately fly the assigned heading they gave…it truly was a cluster****. As if it couldn't get worse, he covered up the glideslope needle, made a comment to me about being able to see the localizer…I misunderstood him….and get this, I felt like COMPLETE IDIOT! I ASKED FOR AN ASR APPROACH! WTH? WHO DOES THAT ON A CHECKRIDE? ATC was like "What? Is everything ok?" Ended up telling them I made a mistake, and to disregard. Then I screwed up the approach, full needle deflection and didn't go missed like I should have immediately. I was so incredibly embarrassed and flustered. Seriously, I have never felt like such an idiot. A VERY humbling experience.

In all honesty, I learned a lot from today. How quickly things can go south if you're not paying attention to EVERY detail and double checking that you have written down ATC clearances properly, and asking for clarification if unsure. Looking back, it was a great learning experience, but I am bummed out. The DPE was very gracious in explaining everything to me and making sure I understood my mistakes. It really wasn't my day today, but instead of beating myself up, I'm chalking it up to a learning experience. You can always ask ATC for something, but that doesn't mean you will get it. This morning, I was so sure I was ready. I've spent hours reviewing and studying, but maybe I was a little to confident.

The owner of the flying club pulled me aside while the DPE was filling out the paperwork, and patted me on the shoulder and said to not be too hard on myself. Instrument flying is challenging, and it's so important to be on top of your game. He said today was a great learning experience, and that we'll work on those things, get rid of the cobwebs, and try again in a couple weeks when the DPE is back in town. Anyway, I hope someone gets a good laugh out of me asking for an ASR approach on an IFR checkride….have you ever heard of that before? Probably not

Sorry about the ride man. It's a hard ride for sure with lots of stuff happening at once. You'll get it next time.

 

[av8tr24]

Sorry about the ride man. It's a hard ride for sure with lots of stuff happening at once. You'll get it next time.

Yes, it certainly is…I think I underestimated it a little bit, and it came around and bit me in the rear. Like I said, a good learning experience, and I'm going to work hard and nail it next time!

 

[AggieMike88]

Wow... What a way to learn some important lessons!

Your mention of the plates and leaving your bag behind had me wonder if you are using an iPad and one of the EFBs?

The unexpected switch of approaches and airports would have been an easier thing to manage with ForeFlight or WingX since a few taps would have quickly brought up the required plate.

It's my habit to make a binder in FF with ALL the plates for the intended airport. Makes it an easy three-finger left or right swipe gesture to "turn the page" to the required plate.

Were you able to knock out some of the required items and get credit for those?

 

[AggieMike88]

When I did IFR training with Capt.Ron, we simulated a ASR approach into KRAS, with hi acting as the controller giving me vectors and assigned altitudes. Definitely an interesting experience.

 

[av8tr24]

Wow... What a way to learn some important lessons!

Your mention of the plates and leaving your bag behind had me wonder if you are using an iPad and one of the EFBs?

The unexpected switch of approaches and airports would have been an easier thing to manage with ForeFlight or WingX since a few taps would have quickly brought up the required plate.

It's my habit to make a binder in FF with ALL the plates for the intended airport. Makes it an easy three-finger left or right swipe gesture to "turn the page" to the required plate.

Were you able to knock out some of the required items and get credit for those?

Well, I had my bag, but left the plates on the table. Also left my iPhone with FF in the office, because I had been getting phone calls off/on all day as well as texts. Didn't want it to be a distraction, and it's funny bc I always keep my phone with me when I fly. If I had had it, the outcome may have been way different. All I got credit for was the oral, I elected to end the ride after I screwed up the localizer approach. It wouldn't have been productive to continue on.

 

[av8tr24]

When I did IFR training with Capt.Ron, we simulated a ASR approach into KRAS, with hi acting as the controller giving me vectors and assigned altitudes. Definitely an interesting experience.

I've actually done an ASR approach into KDAB once, definitely an interesting experience. Not all of the controllers are qualified to do so though…the one today certainly wasn't! I threw him for a loop when I asked…still shaking my head at that one

 

[AggieMike88]

iPhone tip for those annoying calls: switch to Airplane mode. Then in the swipe up menu, turn wifi back on to get the GPS to work or to access your ADS-B receiver.

 

[av8tr24]

iPhone tip for those annoying calls: switch to Airplane mode. Then in the swipe up menu, turn wifi back on to get the GPS to work or to access your ADS-B receiver.

Yeah...you'd think I would have thought of that. My brain was more or less fried after the oral, which was pretty tough. Looking back, I don't know exactly what was wrong with me yesterday afternoon. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and I'm going to move forward and pass it with flying colors the second time (pun intended!)!

 

[poadeleted20]

Yeah...you'd think I would have thought of that. My brain was more or less fried after the oral, which was pretty tough.

If that ever happens to anyone, take advantage of the option to discontinue the test at that point. The FAA says if you are concerned about safety, you can suspend the ride right where you are and pick it up another day. This could be for any reason, such as adverse weather, a problem with the airplane, or just not feeling up to continuing (think "I'M SAFE" -- and mental fatigue counts for the "F"). You get a Letter of Discontinuation detailing all the tasks you've completed, and when you go back to finish (within 60 days), you pick up where you left off and do only the remaining tasks. And this does not count as a failure ("disapproval") on anyone's record.

 

[Marauder]

Sorry to hear about your check ride result. As you pointed out, things can go downhill quickly. Imagine if you were in actual conditions and with your family onboard when all this happened.

Even the most experienced IFR rated pilot can have things go badly. Not sure how you prepare the cockpit and materials for flight, but that is one routine I adhere to religiously when I am going IFR. Everything has a purpose and a place - checklists, approach plates (now electronic for me), charts, pen and paper are all organized in a manner that allows me to find what I need quickly.

 

[av8tr24]

If that ever happens to anyone, take advantage of the option to discontinue the test at that point. The FAA says if you are concerned about safety, you can suspend the ride right where you are and pick it up another day. This could be for any reason, such as adverse weather, a problem with the airplane, or just not feeling up to continuing (think "I'M SAFE" -- and mental fatigue counts for the "F"). You get a Letter of Discontinuation detailing all the tasks you've completed, and when you go back to finish (within 60 days), you pick up where you left off and do only the remaining tasks. And this does not count as a failure ("disapproval") on anyone's record.

I did get a discontinuance...it has the items that we will cover on the next flight test. So a discontinuance is not a failure? If you didn't pass the oral or the flight test, that is considered a complete failure?

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Hang in there. You will pass it next time.

I blew a VOR approach on my first check ride. Pass it on the second ck ride.

Go out and practice and you will do fine.

 

[mjburian]

Sorry to hear the ride didn't go as well as you'd hoped, but it's definitely better to have those sorts of issues before and/or during the checkride than after. You learned some lessons (double check charts, always have a backup, etc) that will definitely come in handy in the future. And we all know the only thing that happened was you delayed getting the ticket. In a few weeks you'll have your instrument rating and none of this will matter.

 

[poadeleted20]

I did get a discontinuance...it has the items that we will cover on the next flight test. So a discontinuance is not a failure? If you didn't pass the oral or the flight test, that is considered a complete failure?

Based on your earlier posts, it certainly seemed you received a Notice of Disapproval, which lists the Areas/Tasks that were either unsatisfactory or not completed. In any event, unsatisfactory performance on any Area/Task constitutes unsatisfactory performance on the practical test and requires a Notice of Disapproval, regardless of whether it happened during the ground or flight portion of the test. The only way you get a Letter of Discontinuance is if everything was satisfactory up to the point the test was discontinued, and based on your posts, that does not seem to be the case. But either way, the paper you received from the examiner should clearly state whether it is a Letter of Discontinuance or a Notice of Disapproval.

Only exception on that is if you fail during the ground portion, you cannot proceed to the flight portion, but if you are unsatisfactory on a task during the flight portion, the applicant and examiner can agree to continue the rest of the flight portion. This is done with the understanding that any tasks competed satisfactorily after that will count as completed for the re-test, but the current test result will be unsatisfactory no matter how well you do on the rest of the tasks.

 

[av8tr24]

Based on your earlier posts, it certainly seemed you received a Notice of Disapproval, which lists the Areas/Tasks that were either unsatisfactory or not completed. In any event, unsatisfactory performance on any Area/Task constitutes unsatisfactory performance on the practical test and requires a Notice of Disapproval, regardless of whether it happened during the ground or flight portion of the test. The only way you get a Letter of Discontinuance is if everything was satisfactory up to the point the test was discontinued, and based on your posts, that does not seem to be the case. But either way, the paper you received from the examiner should clearly state whether it is a Letter of Discontinuance or a Notice of Disapproval.

Only exception on that is if you fail during the ground portion, you cannot proceed to the flight portion, but if you are unsatisfactory on a task during the flight portion, the applicant and examiner can agree to continue the rest of the flight portion. This is done with the understanding that any tasks competed satisfactorily after that will count as completed for the re-test, but the current test result will be unsatisfactory no matter how well you do on the rest of the tasks.

Got it, and my mistake, it is a Notice of Disapproval. Thanks for the explanation!