Intense Cross Wind

azpilot said:
Yes, I had all 40 degrees of flaps in.
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No need for full flaps on those runways with that wind. I would have done 20*, maybe 10, but certainly not 40.

If I had to guess, it was the wind check that threw you off. If you don't know how bad the winds are you tend to react better to them in more of a "fly the airplane" approach rather than flying to the winds.

PHX is an interesting area as there are no airports with a "crosswind" runway. They are all parallel runways and generally aligned with the wind. So if there's a heavy x-wind at one airport chances are they all have at least some of it.
 
There's a very simple trick you can do to tell if you should land or not.

On short final line up with the rudder straight with the centerline. Drop a wing if you have to.

If you cannot for the life of you hold that centerline, do not land.
 
txflyer said:
There's a very simple trick you can do to tell if you should land or not.

On short final line up with the rudder straight with the centerline. Drop a wing if you have to.

If you cannot for the life of you hold that centerline, do not land.
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That's exactly the method I use, with one caveat: If you can't hold centerline with just a slip, you know it's going to be interesting. If you can, once in ground effect the crosswind will usually diminish and you'll be safe to land.

If you can't hold centerline on final using a combination of crab and slip, fuhgetabout it. I've forced the issue a few times, and although I've never broken anything it makes for a wild ride.
 
To not be able to hold centerline in a crab, the crosswind would have to be greater than the descent speed of your aircraft. I would agree that landing in a hurricane is probably not a good idea.

That test makes a lot more sense if you only apply it to a slip.
 
MAKG1 said:
To not be able to hold centerline in a crab, the crosswind would have to be greater than the descent speed of your aircraft. I would agree that landing in a hurricane is probably not a good idea.
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On short final preparing to flare, I've hit dust devils over payment (not visible) that have turned the plane a full 90* (Horizon TX and Dona Ana NM). Immediate full power go around. My CFI hit CAT at KABQ that he swore was going to pancake him into the runway at the threshold.
 
You may get away with crab and kick in a nose dragger but you're asking for disaster in a TW plane if you cannot hold centerline with the rudder on final.
 
Bird Man said:
We are a little bit of a hike, but N12 Lakewood, NJ is 2900 x 60. It's been a great runway to learn on.

I laughed when a friend of mine says he lives next an airport and I can come pick him up there... He's in Mass next to 9B1 Marlboro, which is 1659 x 45.

BUT, after working at Lakewood and nailing the short field landings there over and over, it doesn't seem to bad.
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Try Andover aero flex.
 
MAKG1 said:
To not be able to hold centerline in a crab, the crosswind would have to be greater than the descent speed of your aircraft. I would agree that landing in a hurricane is probably not a good idea.

That test makes a lot more sense if you only apply it to a slip.
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True, I could theoretically hold centerline in a 200 mph crosswind, at full throttle, but I don't think landing would be advised.
 
Z06_Mir said:
PHX is an interesting area as there are no airports with a "crosswind" runway. They are all parallel runways and generally aligned with the wind. So if there's a heavy x-wind at one airport chances are they all have at least some of it.
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You might want to take another look at the Phoenix TAC.

Yes, there are no airports with crossing runways, but between PHX/DVT and SDL/FFZ/CHD and then IWA, you should be able to find a runway within 30 degrees of the wind direction if you really needed.
 
So long as you have enough rudder to keep the plane in line with the runway, you should be able to do it. If you had to walk across that runway, you'd have to lean into the wind. LEAN that plane into the wind. Do it until it seems natural. Land on one wheel. Thats the way its SUPPOSED to be done in high winds. Full ailerons upon touchdown please.
 
There are a couple of other tricks. Land on the downwind side of the runway and point it a bit into the wind. Cut down on that crosswind component. Dont overdo this one.

For practice, if you have steady winds enough to put you on one wheel, add power and go down the whole runway on one wheel. Take off at the end. That will get you accustomed to leaning into the wind and using rudder and aileron to keep it straight.

Oh, and KEEP IT STRAIGHT!
 
That would be full ailerons AFTER touchdown. Fly the airplane to a stop, and then to the tiedown. Use whatever control inputs that takes. Aileron will need to increase as the airplane slows.

Full aileron at touchdown would give you side load into the low wheel. Not good, as it will reinforce the weathervane on a tricycle.
 
MAKG1 said:
That would be full ailerons AFTER touchdown. Fly the airplane to a stop, and then to the tiedown. Use whatever control inputs that takes. Aileron will need to increase as the airplane slows.

Full aileron at touchdown would give you side load into the low wheel. Not good, as it will reinforce the weathervane on a tricycle.
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One of my most exciting (read: terrible) landings was at Rockford, IL in a howling crosswind. I might have had 80 hours in the book, landed perfectly in the crosswind -- and immediately neutralized the ailerons.

Ho-lee-chit, bad idea. Dunno why I didn't hear my CFI in my head, yelling "Keep that correction in", but I didn't. I immediately started a skidding, sideloaded excursion toward the runway lights.

Thankfully, the runways in Rockford are wide, and I was in a rental. :)

Mary still gives me crap about that landing...
 
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As you transition from one wheel to two, you move the stick all the way over. As soon as you are on two wheels, stick is all the way.
 
coloradobluesky said:
As you transition from one wheel to two, you move the stick all the way over. As soon as you are on two wheels, stick is all the way.
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Agreed.

But it can't be 100% mechanical.

Should the crosswind suddenly disappear, due to a gust from the opposite direction, or something blocking it, that full aileron blindly held could rapidly put a wingtip on the ground.

IOW, aileron gradually increasing to full, but always ready to fly the plane as necessary.
 
Jay Honeck said:
One of my most exciting (read: terrible) landings was at Rockford, IL in a howling crosswind. I might have had 80 hours in the book, landed perfectly in the crosswind -- and immediately neutralized the ailerons.

Ho-lee-chit, bad idea. Dunno why I didn't hear my CFI in my head, yelling "Keep that correction in", but I didn't. I immediately started a skidding, sideloaded excursion toward the runway lights.

Thankfully, the runways in Rockford a wide, and I was in a rental. :)

Mary still gives me crap about that landing...
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You think that was bad....I did EXACLTY that once....but in a DC-3!

The only time in my flying life where I actually had an instructor take the airplane from me.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You think that was bad....I did EXACLTY that once....but in a DC-3!

The only time in my flying life where I actually had an instructor take the airplane from me.
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It's nice to know not all the pilots here are perfect, and are willing to say so without have to post unregistered. My hat is off to you.

I am certainly not perfect either, and I'm very glad that the main landing gear is very stout! :D:yikes:
 
retailguy said:
It's nice to know not all the pilots here are perfect, and are willing to say so without have to post unregistered. My hat is off to you.
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Sometimes we are able to fly under the radar here and actually post about real, day to day flying without arrousing the trolls.
 
I did all my primary training in a couple of months and as a result never really had a chance to work on crosswinds, the weather just never cooperated. As a result, my first real attempt at a real crosswind was on my checkride. Things didn't feel good all the way down final, and I ended up going around at about 25 feet. Nothing ramps up stress like seeing the DPE reaching to take the controls! The next attempt was better and I ended up passing, but it took a long time to work up my personal limits. Sounds like you did just fine and now have a lot better idea of what you and your airplane can handle together.
 
Jay Honeck said:
True, I could theoretically hold centerline in a 200 mph crosswind, at full throttle, but I don't think landing would be advised.
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Well, if you can hold centerline in a 200mph crosswind, you could probably just make it a headwind and land like a Harrier jet across the width of the runway, lol!
 
Landing 25kts across yhe runway was how I learned a Cherokee doesn't have a nosewheel centering cam. Touch the nosewheel down with rudder up against the stops makes for Mr. Toad's wild ride on rollout lemme tellya.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Landing 25kts across yhe runway was how I learned a Cherokee doesn't have a nosewheel centering cam. Touch the nosewheel down with rudder up against the stops makes for Mr. Toad's wild ride on rollout lemme tellya.
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Bet you learned to center the rudder the next time before the nosewheel came down :rofl: I've been there... Learned that lesson too... :D
 
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