Insurance rate shocker

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FastEddieB, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just got a renewal quote for my Sky Arrow’s insurance. After 12 years without a claim, I had hoped for, if anything, a small reduction in premium.

    No such luck - it went from $961 last year to $1,218, a 26% increase. Along with the comment: “We are seeing steep premium increases due to the current market”.

    Ouch!

    Don’t know if this is industry-wide but just wanted to give everyone a heads up of what they might expect at their next renewal.
     
  2. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    LSAs have been sore spot in the ancient statistics for a long time. Old guys afraid for their medicals go Sport Pilot, get the things which are way lighter and fly differently, and then prang them on landing. They're all shiny and new, so the insurance companies pay big buck$ to fix them. Welcome to your world.

    That said, it costs me more to insure my Mooney which is worth far less.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Renewal was in May, and the premium was the same as previous year. Wait, it costs you MORE to insure the Mooney? Hull value?

    $949 on the Comanche. $55k hull.
     
  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe send a note back to them... “We are seeing steep cancelation increases due to the current market”.
     
  5. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    Mine went up despite another 150 hours in the airplane and two additional ratings. Same song and dance, rates are going up.
     
  6. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Likewise, even for a plain-Jane 172.

    :(
     
  7. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    I consider it a fee for all of the amusing, terrifying, and thought-provoking NTSB reporting this year has provided so far. I don't know if it's any better or worse than years prior, but the reporting and my awareness has seemed very comprehensive, and it seems every weekend I have 2 or 3 new accidents to ponder and reflect upon. The average payout from insurance on a plane accident has gotta be in the 50K realm. Our insurance is crazy cheap IMO.
     
  8. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    Thought you sold the thing?
     
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  9. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yup

    Perhaps they forget that you don’t NEED their product for most 91 pilots, I’d shop around and also do a risk assessment on how much insurance you’re buying.
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    I am no longer the owner, but still have access to it.
     
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  11. simtech

    simtech En-Route

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    My Cherokee went up $16 bucks this year. It has steadily been going down until this year. $16 ain't alot but it still went up.

    I read an article that said insurance premiums have been bottomed out for a while and easy to get. They expected them to start to increase again very soon. Seems like it is starting.
     
  12. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    Mine went up about 10%, I also increased the Hull Value 10% and flew 0 hours since it's still broken.
     
  13. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You’re carrying full insurance on a plane that doesn’t fly?
     
  14. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    Yea, the bank gets kind of twitchy if I don't. Also, when your uninsured mechanic flips his truck and damages your newly overhauled engine it's helpful for your insurance to cover it and go after the mechanic for you(which is going to be well more than the premium for the 2 years it will have been out of service by the time this is all done).
     
  15. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    I think the number of people who are willing to take a $50,000 punch to avoid a $900 hull premium are not very numerous.

    Are there pilots running bare on liability to save a few shekels? I feel like that's equivalent to having zero health coverage.

    I guess the best insurance of all is to have a worthless estate. More and more, I'm feeling like a rube for having a few assets.
     
  16. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    Mine went up 10% this year.
     
  17. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    The bank thing makes sense.

    So your mechanic flipped his truck inside your hangar and it landed on your engine? How in the name of god did that happen?



    You would be surprised, frankly insurance is just a well marketed and lobbied PRODUCT, makes sense to buy in some cases, not so much in other cases.

     
  18. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    The mechanic took the engine off after my prop strike and took it to the engine shop. After it was overhauled on his way back(more or less) he flipped his truck while the engine was in the back. He had no insurance for his 'shop' and his personal auto insurance wouldn't cover it, luckily my aircraft insurance will cover it.
     
  19. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That’s nuts
     
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  20. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, I just spoke with a friend in the Cirrus instructing world. He said that this year the insurance rate for his company tripled! He said that over $100 of each rental dollar goes to insurance.

    He said his broker explained that it’s not like each class of aircraft has its own “pool”. All aircraft are lumped together. As such, the insurance industry has had huge losses recently, and that’s why rates are going up across the board. Caveat: this is at least third-hand information, so take it with a grain of salt.
     
  21. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    My broker has been giving "storm warnings" on rates for the last 6 months. I've seen an increase or projected increase on both the RV-6 and RV-10.
     
  22. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Mine went down a little.
     
  23. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    "Consumer confidence" = more financed dopes entering/re-entering the piston market = more claims = higher renewals.

    Makes sense to me. The recession should thence provide a chilling effect on claims and rates by proxy. Like the waves of the ocean. High tide always recedes.
     
  24. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing En-Route

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    Good reason I do not have any insurance on my airplanes. If I insured everything my whole paycheck would go to paying insurance!
     
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  25. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    And people wonder why Cirrus pilots are considered ridiculously wealthy...
     
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  26. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Pattern Altitude

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    Mine stayed about the same for the same hull earlier this year. I upped the hull recently and the slightly higher prorated amount seemed about right. I'll find out again in about 6 months.
     
  27. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Mine went up 16.6% on my Aztec, for the exact same coverage as last year, this past June (and no, I've never had a claim of any kind on any airplane I've owned). We'll see what they say about the Husky shortly.
    My broker says there's fewer underwriters, as some are exiting the aviation market, and that's causing some of the rate increases.

    I met with the lead underwriter that has provided our Club's flight training unit insurance for many years. We have a Cirrus SR-20 in the fleet. He said they won't cover privately owned Cirrus SR-20 aircraft unless the pilot has a minimum 300 hours total time plus the 10 hrs (or whatever it is) for the official Cirrus transition training. For an SR-22 it's 1000 hours TT. They are expensive hulls to pay out when the chute gets pulled and the plane is written off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  28. ScottinIowa

    ScottinIowa Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My ins co tried to raise my Arrow's ins from 2k (1st year owner, low time pilot) to $2600! Despite doubling my hours. I shopped around and got it down to $1300, but it took some work.
    On a separate topic, has anybody ever used that Savvy Mechanic feature you get from these ins plans? Is it worth using this service if you have an issue away from home?
     
  29. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Somebody on another board noted that the number of fatalities in turbine airplane accidents in the US in the first half of 2019 is 10 times the number in the first half of 2018.

    Obviously we’re not talking about turbine airplanes in this thread, but there’s a point where everybody’s going to have to increase payments to cover a specific segment of aviation.
     
  30. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    No problemo. I’ll take all the assets off your hand you wanna dump
     
  31. Daytonabch04

    Daytonabch04 Pre-Flight

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    I just got my renewal quote from a different company for this year's insurance...a decrease of $1200. After state taxes, the difference is $950-1000.

    My renewal from the same company as last year was same rate..no increase. Luckily, I shopped it with a different broker and I'll take a $1000 DECREASE!

    Flew 90 hrs this year in my Mooney and 350 hr TT now. :cool:
     
  32. Lance F

    Lance F En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Try adding a son with only a few hours in type to a C414 policy. Now this is insurance pain big time.
     
  33. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Can I add my kid to your policy, since you’re already paying extra? ;)
     
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  34. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Eddie corrected that on another board. It should be "$100 for each rental hour."
     
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  35. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou Final Approach

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    Insurance is socialism. You pay for others. The more others spend, the more it costs you.
    If others make more mistakes, it costs you more.
    If others maliciously prang their airplanes (so that they don't have to pay for engine rebuild), it costs you more.
    Just like car insurance. Cost always goes up, can't go down.

    Like when the P-51 pilot forgot to put the gear down. Bystanders commented "don't worry, insurance will cover it". Meaning "we all will pay to fix his P-51".
    Or the pilot with a failed cylinder and a gear-up emergency landing. Smart move on his part. Instead of him paying $40k for an engine rebuild, we all buy him a new airplane.
     
  36. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Or the pilot that had is plane over priced and for sale for 3 years...

    That said, I am way ahead of the game insurance wise. Bought a house, 5 days later hit by lightning. $400 insurance premium, $96,000 payout.
     
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  37. idahoflier

    idahoflier Cleared for Takeoff

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    In July my insurance went up or down $1 (can't remember which way now) from the previous year on a C172N...
     
  38. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    Is someone forcing you to carry hull coverage on your airplane? If you're so worried about having to pay for someone else's mistake, why not self insure?

    For that matter, is someone forcing you to carry liability coverage?
     
  39. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    Since the prop is off, you can call it a "cylinder strike" instead:confused:
     
  40. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Only if “we all” have airplanes for which we choose to purchase hull coverage from the company that he purchases his hull coverage from.