Instument training is this a good Idea?

[dogman]

I have been preparing for my Instrument written and about ready to test.

Been waiting to buy the aircraft I will be flying after my training. So I can train in that aircraft. I now have the Cherokee six and 30hrs in it.

I have been trying to find the right time to start IR training when I know I will have plenty of time to get started and keep instructing at least a couple times a week.

So here is my dilemma. I am going to have a lot of Business travel in Sept. & Oct.
Plan to do much of this in the Six.
My question, If was to get the beginning Attitude Ins. and Approach training done in the next 2 or 3 weeks and then higher the CFI to finish my training by accompanying me on these trips and try to finish training would this be an effective way of training????

Thank You in advance
DogMan

 

[spiderweb]

People will disagree with me, but I would say that it won't be effective as in "cost-effective" necessarily, but it will be good for you, and you may become a better pilot for training this way. I did a 3,000 nm X-C with my CFII during my training. We only did six approaches, but the cross country training was invaluable--so much variety in the weather, terrain, controllers, etc. So, what I'd plan to do is do as much of the training as possible before your trips, and then take your CFII along on some of them.

 

[spiderweb]

I should also say that I don't think you could really "finish" your training during these trips. Think of them as a chance to perfect the neglected cross-country portion of your training. After the trips, tie up the loose ends, and finish then.

 

[wsuffa]

And I'll offer a slightly different answer: It depends on you.

There are, obviously, some things that are hard to do on trips. But some of the stuff lends itself quite well. Factor in that you will be learning a new plane at the same time.

Here's what I might do: knock out the basics before you do any trips. Constant speed work, constant rate work, turns, unusual attitudes, turns, etc. Those are the building blocks. Once you have those mastered, doing the rest on trips (approaches, tracking, holds, cross-country, working the system) can work quite nicely.

Some people work well on intense training, some people don't.

There is at least one instructor that will do your instrument training on a multi-day cross-country trip.

 

[sere]

People will disagree with me, but I would say that it won't be effective as in "cost-effective" necessarily, but it will be good for you, and you may become a better pilot for training this way. I did a 3,000 nm X-C with my CFII during my training. We only did six approaches, but the cross country training was invaluable--so much variety in the weather, terrain, controllers, etc. So, what I'd plan to do is do as much of the training as possible before your trips, and then take your CFII along on some of them.

I agree with you Ben. This is not a cost effective way of doing it but it does make it real life. When I was doing my PPL I purchased a plane over 500 miles away. Took my CFI up there to get the plane and fly it back. Great experiance and we became very good friends. Today we still fly together after several years have gone by.

 

[Maverick]

I agree with the comments already posted here and I would add that instrument training does not begin with cross country work or flying approaches. While what you are suggesting would be good experience I don't think it would be cost effective. Your instrument training really should begin with the basic building blocks of instrument flight.

Jeannie

 

[dogman]

I do realize that there is a lot of basics that I will have to be proficient with before the trips and plan to do that, Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

Thank you for all your advise is greatly appreciated

Dogman

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I do realize that there is a lot of basics that I will have to be proficient with before the trips and plan to do that, Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

Thank you for all your advise is greatly appreciated

Dogman

If you're at least ready to pass the IFR written, I'd sure do it !

Personally, I requested at least one approach per lesson in my IFR training from day one and never regretted it... (but then maybe I'm not trying hard enough !?)

 

[Henning]

I have been preparing for my Instrument written and about ready to test.

Been waiting to buy the aircraft I will be flying after my training. So I can train in that aircraft. I now have the Cherokee six and 30hrs in it.

I have been trying to find the right time to start IR training when I know I will have plenty of time to get started and keep instructing at least a couple times a week.

So here is my dilemma. I am going to have a lot of Business travel in Sept. & Oct.
Plan to do much of this in the Six.
My question, If was to get the beginning Attitude Ins. and Approach training done in the next 2 or 3 weeks and then higher the CFI to finish my training by accompanying me on these trips and try to finish training would this be an effective way of training????

Thank You in advance
DogMan

Sounds good to me.

 

[Everskyward]

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

I think this is a good idea for the reason you stated here. I think that one of the elements that's lacking in instrument training is the cross-country part and finding out how the system really works.

Besides, if you take an instructor on your business-related trips you'll be able to go in worse weather than you could have yourself being limited to VFR.

 

[Henning]

I do realize that there is a lot of basics that I will have to be proficient with before the trips and plan to do that, Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

Thank you for all your advise is greatly appreciated

Dogman

Actually, learning the basics is what the long cross countries are best for. Once you learn stable flight by instruments, it all becomes much easier then. I highly recommend a couple multi hour cross countries hand flying the whole trip under the hood early in your training. Really what it does is it gives you a bunch of time really learning how to trim a plane out, and that is really a key factor to making the rest much easier.

 

[poadeleted20]

There is at least one instructor that will do your instrument training on a multi-day cross-country trip.

As an instructor, I'd be happy to do that, as long as the training is the (or at least a) principal focus for the trip. That means if the training is combined with business, as Dogman suggests, there has to be sufficient time allotted for preflight planning/briefing, post flight debriefing, and study. If the trip will be a go-go-go operation, where engine shutdown is followed immediately by a taxicab to a meeting, arrival at the airport is 10 minutes before takeoff, and every night is another wine-and-dine with clients, the instructor might as well fly left seat and let Dogman sit in the back and prepare for the next meeting for all the useful training that's going to be accomplished.

But I do agree that all the training you can get before the trip is useful. You can use the trip to reinforce what new skills you've learned, and they will make you a smoother, more precise pilot for the trip.

 

[dogman]

As an instructor, I'd be happy to do that, as long as the training is the (or at least a) principal focus for the trip. That means if the training is combined with business, as Dogman suggests, there has to be sufficient time allotted for preflight planning/briefing, post flight debriefing, and study. If the trip will be a go-go-go operation, where engine shutdown is followed immediately by a taxicab to a meeting, arrival at the airport is 10 minutes before takeoff, and every night is another wine-and-dine with clients, the instructor might as well fly left seat and let Dogman sit in the back and prepare for the next meeting for all the useful training that's going to be accomplished.

But I do agree that all the training you can get before the trip is useful. You can use the trip to reinforce what new skills you've learned, and they will make you a smoother, more precise pilot for the trip.

The trips I will be going on are completely on my schedule and are not for sales or meetings or anything like that. My trips are more of a research type. So I can be very flexible in the schedule. If we can't go Monday we will try to go Wed.

 

[bbchien]

I do realize that there is a lot of basics that I will have to be proficient with before the trips and plan to do that, Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

Thank you for all your advise is greatly appreciated

Dogman

Bob Gerace did it this way and turned out to be a pretty good instrument pilot.....

Bruce

 

[gismo]

I do realize that there is a lot of basics that I will have to be proficient with before the trips and plan to do that, Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I am also not looking to save money just thought it might work to get some training and real world experience and actual IMC along the way. I want to get as much out of training as I can. Much of the training around here is done flying around the neighbor hood, same places same approaches.

IMO this would be a great way to train. It might even be cost effective if you consider the trips themselves to be necessary one way or another. I do believe that it would be well worth your time to master basic aircraft control and develop a rudimentary scan first, but you could probably even master much of that enroute as well as long as you weren't in congested airspace.

Field Morey used to give this kind of instruction with two students on the same long trip. I think he required that the students have about 20 hours of training before the trip.

Typical flight school training prepares you for the checkride and can make you an adequate airplane driver, but real world IFR x/c training like you are contemplating is likely to make you a better IFR pilot.

 

[jdwatson]

FlightGest does a good job of blending real-world and the checkride. One of their biggest strengths is keeping up with their pilots. The instructors stay in contact with their pilots and make themselves available to increase the "comfort zone" with follow-on instruction. They've created an environment where stupid questions are nonexistant and encouraged. Whether it's by phone, in person or e-mail I can get an answer, explaination, recommendation or at the very least an opinion from the team there.

I love dual time. Every X-C that I've taken with one of the FlightGest instructors has been a great learning experience. There is nothing like dealing with the system to learn it. What has surprised me is the differences from region to region. The one thing that seems constant is the level of professionalism. I'm a huge fan of ATC. My dual time in the system taught me that ATC is a great tool (and friend) when you're single pilot IFR. My instructors have taken the time to show me how to be more effective as a pilot. You really can't get that on short hops to the practice area or the local patch.

 

[dogman]

FlightGest does a good job of blending real-world and the checkride. One of their biggest strengths is keeping up with their pilots. The instructors stay in contact with their pilots and make themselves available to increase the "comfort zone" with follow-on instruction. They've created an environment where stupid questions are nonexistant and encouraged. Whether it's by phone, in person or e-mail I can get an answer, explaination, recommendation or at the very least an opinion from the team there.

I love dual time. Every X-C that I've taken with one of the FlightGest instructors has been a great learning experience. There is nothing like dealing with the system to learn it. What has surprised me is the differences from region to region. The one thing that seems constant is the level of professionalism. I'm a huge fan of ATC. My dual time in the system taught me that ATC is a great tool (and friend) when you're single pilot IFR. My instructors have taken the time to show me how to be more effective as a pilot. You really can't get that on short hops to the practice area or the local patch.

What and where is FlightGest???

 

[jdwatson]

FlightGest is a flight school at KRDU in Raleigh, NC. It's where I train and learn.