Instrument Student - Question about engaging ATC for practice approaches.

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Skybound-mg

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Skybound-mg
I'm planning on doing some hood work with a safety pilot (PPL) next week. So this will be a VFR flight, me under the hood, safety pilot VFR, no instrument flight plan.

I'm trying to simultaneously build X-Country time as well. I've got radios down locally for my calls, calling approach and asking for a practice ILS into a local Class C airport. However, this time, my destination airport is 50+ NM away. I plan on getting flight following to the dest airport and doing a practice RNAV there, low approach, go missed, then head back. The desination is an uncontrolled airport.

I plan on asking for flight following to the destination airport.. from there, not sure about protocol.

Do I just request a practice RNAV in flight with the controller I'm with? If I don't get flight following for some reason (too busy, etc), can I just fly the approach without talking to ATC? Should I? (Dest? Uncontrolled airport). Do I call ATC even if not on flight following and ask for a practice RNAV?
 
The answer seems to vary greatly by region. You can ask, they might say no, in which case you just do it on your own.
 
Skybound-mg said:
…I'm trying to simultaneously build X-Country time as well. I've got radios down locally for my calls, calling approach and asking for a practice ILS into a local Class C airport. ….
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Why aren’t you having this conversation with your CFII?

If you haven’t been working with a CFII, just do the XC and don’t do hood work;it’ll do more harm than good.
 
It's never a bad idea to let the controller know what your intentions are. If you're talking to Center and you're getting close, you can let them know your plans. If there's an approach controller who has oversight of that area, I imagine you'd end up talking to them. Worst case, you just switch to advisories and fly the approach making call-outs. Probably easiest to look at the approach plate and see whom you should be talking to and then ask them how to best go about it. Definitely let them know that it's going to be a low-approach only. That way they may well let you stay on your code while on advisories and then just come back up with them on the climb-out.
 
The two posts above are very good guidance. One of my CFII's approved of this type of training, the other did not. With a skilled and trustworthy safety pilot, I found the practice useful.

Nearing the destination airport, tune and monitor the local frequency to give your safety pilot information on any other traffic operating there. This is very important since you will not be flying the traffic pattern, and your position and intention reports will warn other pilot to look where you will be.

Using flight following is a very good substitute for ATC when practicing for future IFR flights
 
When on FF, I just let ATC know my intentions. If I want VTF, I'll ask and usually, if ATC is not TRACON at a busy Bravo, they will be happy to oblige. If I am flying a full published approach, I just tell them my intentions. If not talking to ATC, I keep the local traffic informed while I am monitoring CTAF. Easy peasy.
 
During my IFR training, I did exactly what you want to do several times.

For example, I flew from KANE --> KOVL, a distance of 80nm, under the hood with my buddy as a safety pilot. ATC call is exactly the same as if you are shooting local approaches - who are you, where are you, what altitude, where do you want to go, what do you want to do once you get to your destination.

Make sure the last point includes the procedure you want and where you want to start it. If there is a procedure turn you want to do as well, make mention of that too. If you're just going to do a missed approach say so, so they can plan for your call back.

My experience with rural destinations is that once I'm established on the procedure and there is no known traffic they cancel my flight following and I'll be on my own.

Happy flying and good luck with your training.
 
Locally they're pretty good about taking the request for the return leg at the same time you make the approach request so you can usually keep your squawk code and come back to approach on the missed from the practice approach.

If you feel like the radio is making you fall behind on your procedures, break up what's safe to do later and focus on your approaches and making sure your safety pilot is doing their job.
 
robin ardoin said:
If not talking to ATC, I keep the local traffic informed while I am monitoring CTAF. Easy peasy.
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I will usually at least monitor ATC, just to make sure i am not interfering with some else that actually is talking to them and doing the approach.

Brian
 
Skybound-mg said:
I plan on asking for flight following to the destination airport.. from there, not sure about protocol.
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Asking for a practice approach would be exactly the same as what your CFII has been doing in lesson after lesson after lesson. If you’ve been paying attention, you already know. If not, I agree with @TCABM’s comment and observation.
TCABM said:
Why aren’t you having this conversation with your CFII?

If you haven’t been working with a CFII, just do the XC and don’t do hood work;it’ll do more harm than good.
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Yep. As others have said just ask for the approach you want with the controller working you into your destination.

I've said "unable" to an approach like once, maybe twice, into the airspace in Central Michigan.
 
brcase said:
I will usually at least monitor ATC, just to make sure i am not interfering with some else that actually is talking to them and doing the approach.

Brian
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I do as well, com2. Gives a feel for ‘big picture’ for traffic flow in the wider area.
 
I want to add - if there's local VFR traffic at that field, and you plan to land, it may be advisable to do a 'sorta' circling approach - a.k.a. traffic pattern. A straight-in in the midst of the VFR traffic is problematic. (Don't ask me how I know :rolleyes: )
 
40YearDream said:
I want to add - if there's local VFR traffic at that field, and you plan to land, it may be advisable to do a 'sorta' circling approach - a.k.a. traffic pattern. A straight-in in the midst of the VFR traffic is problematic. (Don't ask me how I know :rolleyes: )
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This dovetails into the omnipresent reminder - pilots without an instrument rating do not know approach fixes and you really have to make your CTAF calls as expected by the other VFR traffic.

This is a good task to give to your safety pilot.
 
FF or not, just ask for practice approach

Pro tip, use the mil bases, most immature CFIs are scared of them, they often have full approach capabilities, only thing is you can’t touch down, but for a instrument student go arounds are the word of the day
 
bentmettle said:
This dovetails into the omnipresent reminder - pilots without an instrument rating do not know approach fixes and you really have to make your CTAF calls as expected by the other VFR traffic.

This is a good task to give to your safety pilot.
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I've heard combinations of the two that seem to make sense. I'm based at a relatively busy nontowered airport. Mix of corporate jets with multiple VFR and IFR training operations. Over an IF or FAF it's, "over [FXNAM] 8 mile final on the ILS 3," dropping the [FXNAM] once inbound. The identification of the approach as opposed to simply "8 mile final Runway 3" is probably unnecessary, but I otherwise like the combo, which gives VFR-only pilots what they need while informting the other 3 people practicing the approach the information they need.

The other one I'm starting to hear, particularly from jets is giving time as well as or in lieu of distance. ""3 minutes out on a 6-mile final."
 
If you are flying that far, why only one approach?

“Podunk Approach, Cessna 123 Alpha Bravo with request”
Followed by “Podunk Approach 123 Alpha Bravo is a 172 (position) at #### thousand feet with information Mike, requesting 3 IlS 32 Left practice approaches at (airport name).
 
midlifeflyer said:
The other one I'm starting to hear, particularly from jets is giving time as well as or in lieu of distance. ""3 minutes out on a 6-mile final."
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Yeah, I've started giving distance and time, even in my dinky little Cherokee. "10 miles and 5 minutes to the North, inbound..."
 
The rogue said:
Yep. As others have said just ask for the approach you want with the controller working you into your destination.

I've said "unable" to an approach like once, maybe twice, into the airspace in Central Michigan.
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Where do you work?
 
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