Instrument Rating = no change in insurance cost

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I have 410 total hours, PPL and Instrument rating. Of those, 236 Hours are in my Dakota. My rate last year was $1200/yr. This year, with the instrument rating I earned in March, my insurance rate is unchanged.

Is anyone else seeing this?
 
Are there other pilots on your policy. Talking to one of the agents they told me that unless we all had instrument ratings, the rates wouldn't change.
 
I have no clue, truly.... but a couple guesses..??

1) the annual increase was off set by the IR?

2) more risky behavior with an IR to offset the potential VFM into IMC??
 
Kritchlow said:
I have no clue, truly.... but a couple guesses..??

1) the annual increase was off set by the IR?

2) more risky behavior with an IR to offset the potential VFM into IMC??
Click to expand...

Or they don't give you credit until you have a year or say 50 hours instrument? Speculating...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
flyingron said:
Are there other pilots on your policy. Talking to one of the agents they told me that unless we all had instrument ratings, the rates wouldn't change.
Click to expand...

I have one other guy on my policy for the trip we did together to Cuba. He is a CFII and has about a billion hours.
 
Our insurance would definitely be cheaper if my partner had his instrument ticket. We checked, it was not as much as I expected at around a $200 to $300 savings as I recall. Currently costs us $2,100 for $110,000 coverage on a C210K.
 
On related topic anyone seen savings on insurance from getting your commercial? Similar impact?


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I've never insured an airplane, and likely have zero clue what I'm talking about, but $110k coverage seems extremely weak to me. My car is triple that.

Perhaps it's different...
 
As soon as I tell our company that one of us is VFR only, they don't care about the other three.
 
EppyGA said:
As soon as I tell our company that one of us is VFR only, they don't care about the other three.
Click to expand...
I can understand that. It makes sense from their standpoint.
 
Did your broker shop around or take the easy route for renewal?

My rates went down $400 this year due to IFR rating.
 
Kritchlow said:
I've never insured an airplane, and likely have zero clue what I'm talking about, but $110k coverage seems extremely weak to me. My car is triple that.

Perhaps it's different...
Click to expand...

I'm assuming he's talking hull value and not liability. So, different things, unless you're driving an extremely nice car.
 
Kritchlow said:
I've never insured an airplane, and likely have zero clue what I'm talking about, but $110k coverage seems extremely weak to me. My car is triple that.

Perhaps it's different...
Click to expand...
That's the hull coverage, not liability
 
I will explain how this works:
When you got your instrument rating, your insurance costs automatically decreased by $1,000.00. Your new rate is now $200.00.
But, because you will now be a low time IFR pilot, flying in IFR conditions, you go into a higher risk pool, so your rates are automatically increased by $1,000.00, going up to $1,200.00.
When you become a high time, experienced IFR pilot, your rates will automatically decrease by $1,000.00.
But, because you will actually be flying in IFR conditions more often, you will go into a higher risk pool, and your rates will automatically increase $1,000.00 to $1,200.00.
Unless you don't stay proficient, then your rates will go up to $2,400.00.
 
Kritchlow said:
I've never insured an airplane, and likely have zero clue what I'm talking about, but $110k coverage seems extremely weak to me. My car is triple that.

Perhaps it's different...
Click to expand...
You have a pretty nice car if it is valued at $330,000? It is difficult to get an insurance company to value a 47 year old single engine airplane at more than that value. We had one carrier that we dropped because they would only provide coverage to $100,000. We would have preferred more but decided to self insure the value and save some money and quit looking further. We would be open to suggestions if anyone can suggest an insurance company with solid history and rates more competitive for two pilots that have never had an accident, violation or a claim and 45 & 49 years of flying history?
 
Briar Rabbit said:
You have a pretty nice car if it is valued at $330,000? It is difficult to get an insurance company to value a 47 year old single engine airplane at more than that value. We had one carrier that we dropped because they would only provide coverage to $100,000. We would have preferred more but decided to self insure the value and save some money and quit looking further. We would be open to suggestions if anyone can suggest an insurance company with solid history and rates more competitive for two pilots that have never had an accident, violation or a claim and 45 & 49 years of flying history?
Click to expand...
Thanks... it's been explained already to me.
I was thinkinking liability when you were talking hull.
 
Kritchlow said:
Thanks... it's been explained already to me.
I was thinkinking liability when you were talking hull.
Click to expand...
Yep, see that now. They type faster than I do. Thought you were criticizing me for being irresponsible or a tightwad, sorry friend if I came across as a bit testy.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Yep, see that now. They type faster than I do. Thought you were criticizing me for being irresponsible or a tightwad, sorry friend if I came across as a bit testy.
Click to expand...
No problem at all... I knew I was likely missing the point there.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have 410 total hours, PPL and Instrument rating. Of those, 236 Hours are in my Dakota. My rate last year was $1200/yr. This year, with the instrument rating I earned in March, my insurance rate is unchanged.
Click to expand...

Public liability: covers aircraft owners for damage their aircraft does to third party property.
Passenger liability: others riding in the accident aircraft who are injured or killed.
Ground risk hull: not in motion against damage when aircraft on the ground and not in motion.
Ground risk hull: in motion (taxiing) coverage while the aircraft is taxiing, but not while taking off or landing.

Notice most are predicated on the value of your aircraft. Your premium may not have much room to move lower.
 
I got my Instrument Rating around the same hours, but almost all were in my Mooney. Rates fell 50% when I hit 100 hours in the Mooney, and another 30% when I finished IA. Then I moved and change gedanken insurance companies and saved a other couple hundred dollarso.

AOPA & Avemco are always pricey. Now I use Falcon Insurance and am quite happy. No longer have zero deductible (I tnink it's $250), but for $200/year I don't need it.
 
I've added ratings, my co-owners didn't... two of us were flying, one really wasn't but met the minimums for the insurance, and also did an FR with a CFI...

No rate change the year I got any of the ratings.
Three years after the Instrument, the rates dropped significantly ... with nothing really being any different in the above story the entire time.
We've tried to figure it out, and have no idea what "magic number" someone crossed, or what changed... but the policy and coverage didn't, and it dropped from about $1000 to just over $700 this year.

I'm pretty sure whatever changed isn't visible to us, and is related to some internal underwriter / actuary hocus-pocus.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have 410 total hours, PPL and Instrument rating. Of those, 236 Hours are in my Dakota. My rate last year was $1200/yr. This year, with the instrument rating I earned in March, my insurance rate is unchanged.
Is anyone else seeing this?
Click to expand...

There is your issue. 500 hours you may see a decrease.
 
denverpilot said:
I'm pretty sure whatever changed isn't visible to us, and is related to some internal underwriter / actuary hocus-pocus.
Click to expand...

That sums up my experience as well. I think some of it may depend on what broker you use as well.

A number of years ago I bought a bonanza as a low time pilot with no instrument rating. My initial checkout requirements were minimal compared to some stories as well. During the first year of ownership I got my instrument rating. No change in premium. During the second year of ownership I got my commercial rating. No change in premium. The premiums always stayed around the same price, only with a very slight reduction for time in type (less than $100). The response I always got back from the broker when I inquired about no reduction in premium for the added ratings was "you're already in the lowest risk bracket you can be in." My premiums on the Bonanza didn't change at all until I got close to the 1200 hour mark. Ironically, while my total flight experience is increasing my Bonanza flight experience is not increasing by much. Yet I somehow must still be viewed as a lower risk.

During the same timeframe I also owned half of a Mooney. The other owner had a "friend" who was an insurance broker that he insisted on using because he was sure this friend was going to give us the best deal possible (I never found that true). The Mooney insurance was always 1.5 times what I paid for the Bonanza, part of which I attribute to the broker, part of which I believe was due to the airplane type. Anyway, I was the least experienced pilot in that pool of people insured on that airplane and once again, my flight experience both in the Mooney and total flight experience never seemed to change the cost of the premium.
 
Mine went down nearly $300 only 5 months after getting my IR.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have 410 total hours, PPL and Instrument rating. Of those, 236 Hours are in my Dakota. My rate last year was $1200/yr. This year, with the instrument rating I earned in March, my insurance rate is unchanged.

Is anyone else seeing this?
Click to expand...


Call your agent and ask for a discount. Sometimes they need a little prodding.

Always ask for the discount.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have 410 total hours, PPL and Instrument rating. Of those, 236 Hours are in my Dakota. My rate last year was $1200/yr. This year, with the instrument rating I earned in March, my insurance rate is unchanged.

Is anyone else seeing this?
Click to expand...
My experience was the same when I got the rating in 2013. Absolutely no significant change in my annual premium, and in fact, I think it was the next year, my rates went up. When I asked the broker, she said it was an industry-wide increase and had nothing to do with me. :dunno:

My understanding is that with a retract like mine, the main thing that drives down rates is time in make and model... and recency. My rates went up significantly this year due to zero hours last year. But I suspect that's temporary, and will come down if I fly as much this year as I usually do.

I'm sole owner (and named pilot), so it's not that.
 
gsengle said:
Or they don't give you credit until you have a year or say 50 hours instrument? Speculating...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
My broker's questionnaire does not even mention instrument time, just the rating.
 
azure said:
My understanding is that with a retract like mine, the main thing that drives down rates is time in make and model... and recency. My rates went up significantly this year due to zero hours last year. But I suspect that's temporary, and will come down if I fly as much this year as I usually do.

I'm sole owner (and named pilot), so it's not that.
Click to expand...

Could you have gotten away with not filling out the questionnaire this year? You might have been better off. The brokers want you to fill it out hoping that you will so your new total time and time in type will help the premium, but they can just quote the insurance off the old times as well. Half the time I never return those sheets and I still get insurance. It just might not be as cheap as I could have gotten it for.

azure said:
My broker's questionnaire does not even mention instrument time, just the rating.
Click to expand...

I've never seen one that asks either. The questionnaires I've seen from various insurance companies all look about the same. At least for light airplanes they do, I have no idea what the questionnaire looks like when you're trying to insure turboprops or jets.
 
I saw the same thing when I completed my IR..... I changed insurance companies and got a substantial discount.
 
Insurance company has zero incentive to change your premium unless you prod them. Call and ask. Or switch to a company that is proactive about taking care of their insured.
 
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