Initial 3rd class medical - not a full disclosure

N

Natti

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Hi All,
In August 2021 I went to an AME office to obtain my 3rd class. Everything was fine and my AME has registered my MedExpress account and filled in all the form's questions himself by doing a QA session with me (I just had to click submit button) and then doing my physical exam. I got the certificate the same day. I was pretty newbe back then and didn't know much about 8500-8 form. Only after reading it few days later by myself did I noticed questions about DUI, arrests, criminal history etc. I called the FAA number and asked how to correct the error in disclosure. They said nothing can be done once the form is completed and the certificate is issued and advised to reach my AME. I called my AME and told him I don't remember he was asking me these questions and disclosed to him I had an arrest and criminal history (misdemeanor, not related to DUI which happened 18 years ago). He said he will reach our FSDO office and will get back to me. He called the next day and said I should expect a letter from FSDO which I will have to respond with those details and if the letter won't come I don't have to worry about it. Well, now it is 2 years passed, the letter hasn't come and I have to do another 3rd class or Basic Med. Regardless of which one I will go with, I plan to disclose my arrest and criminal history this time, but I am worried I will be charged/punished for the lack of initial disclosure. Seeking advice on how to correctly proceed in my case. Thanks!
 
Might be worth a paid consult with an Aviation Lawyer before you take any further action.

On the other hand, free advice from SGOTI is what many people prefer. If you get enough responses than you even get to pick the advice you prefer at no cost !!!
 
So why did the AME have to complete the ME application for you? Normally the pilot does it, gives the confirmation number to the AME, the AME pulls it out “of the Cloud” and begins the exam. The AME can make changes to it, certifying that he has your permission to do so, but him actually going thru it line by line is not standard. The form is supposed to be completed by the pilot / applicant, not his mother, wife, mistress, CFI, secretary or AME

depending on what the arrest was for, it’s probably NBD. but I would verify with the AME what he communicated with the FSDO. FWIW I would think he would have called AMCD or the RFS’s office, not the FSDO.

the other thing you can do is type up a “personal statement” and explain the omission (you simply forgot). I would leave out the part where the AME did the form for you. You can mail that to AMCD to be included in your file. Send it with tracking (USPS Priority) and keep the delivery confirmation in your records. Most likely it’s NBD and you won’t hear anything else. Then just list it on your next 8500-8 and all subsequent applications.
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
Might be worth a paid consult with an Aviation Lawyer before you take any further action.

On the other hand, free advice from SGOTI is what many people prefer. If you get enough responses than you even get to pick the advice you prefer at no cost !!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, that or with a consulting senior AME. Probably should have been done back when the error was encountered. The AME's, "I'll call the FSDO and ask" doesn't make much sense on a number of levels (assuming the AME actually said that).

The other piece I'd want is the medical information that was actually sent by the AME to CAMI. I'd be asking for a copy of my medical records to be sure what is there.
 
Well.....I can tell you roughly what your'e going to need:

Full criminal background search (they wnat to knwo that it's your'e one and only). Sometimes the misdemeanor bears on the DUI but sometimes it does not. It depends on what exactly it was, and the timing.
Full DMV search each state in which you've had a license....to support your assertion of "just the one".
Personal statement
The paperwork from the DUI- if you blew, what you blew; (did you blow...it matters). If there is no documentation available as to your blow it's treated as a no blow, and then the evaluation:

Evaluation by a forensic psychiatrist as to whether or not you meet the AVIATION defintions of disease.
If you did blow and it was under 0.15, a community MA. level CADC can do the eval.

B
 
It seems the conviction was  not related to a DUI. Did you also have a DUI arrest? If the misdemeanor conviction is not a driving or drug/alcohol related offense, it's likely not a big deal. You reported it, allbeit late, last time and you report it again this time. If you're concerned, an AME consult may be in order.

If the conviction is related to the above, then you certainly need an AME consult before your next exam.
 
Thanks all, answering some of the questions:
- I no longer expect a letter from "FAA", or rather from AMCD or RFS office as people corrected here.
- Yes, my online application was filled in the office. My CFI hasn't explained I can/should fill it myself. Even when I called AME office for the appointment they have not let me know.
AME simply was filing in doing a Q/A with me in his office him behind his laptop, me in the patient chair.
- My charges are not DUI related but alcohol was the contributing factor in my case.

Based on suggestions here, it seems the admission of an error on my side and not involving/blaming/mentioning AME filing in my application (thanks for the suggestion) and full disclosure on the next application then the new exam is a best course. Having an explanation letter of the omission should help.

And some more questions:
- Does it makes sense to let my current class 3 fully expire before I try to reapply?
- Re: consulting senior AME, should this be done before I do next exam or during such event, where I can find senior AME or it should be HIMS AME?
- Is going BasicMed would make better chance for positive outcome in my case?

Thanks!
 
Natti said:
Well, now it is 2 years passed, the letter hasn't come and I have to do another 3rd class or Basic Med. Regardless of which one I will go with, I plan to disclose my arrest and criminal history this time, but I am worried I will be charged/punished for the lack of initial disclosure.
Click to expand...

So it's been two years since your AME disclosed the info to the FAA and you've received no letter? You have a valid medical that's about to expire? Is that correct?

If that's correct, you should understand that once the medical expires, the FAA no longer has any legal standing to query you or seek any further information about it. FAA legal has made a determination that an expired medical cannot be revoked and the FAA cannot require you to submit more info about it.

Now then....

You might be interested in knowing that, if you choose to switch to Basic Med, the form you will complete DOES NOT go to the FAA. Your doctor signs it and you keep it in your logbook. Yes, you will have to disclose the issue on the form, but then it's just between you and your doctor. Furthermore, it's impossible to "fail" a Basic Med exam. If your doctor is unwilling to sign, you can either take whatever steps he says are necessary to gain his signature OR you can simply find another doctor.

Also, since your existing medical has expired (sounds like it will at the two year mark), the FAA can no longer revoke it. That means you will have held a valid medical since July 2006 that was never revoked, making you eligible for Basic Med. This provides a bit of a "safe haven" for people in your situation.

OTOH, if you were someday involved in an incident that caused the FAA to investigate your medical condition, and assuming you were alive after the incident, they might require you to produce the Basic Med form your doctor signed. If they then compared it to your previous class 3 form, they would see the discrepancy and it's possible you could then be charged for having falsified a federal form. I can't speak to the likelihood of this chain of unfortunate events happening.

IANAL. I'm not advising you on how to proceed. I'm just making sure you understand your options.
 
I am no expert but I’d say see what’s showing on your record first, buy the reports, then go from there.
 
Further understand that the longer you go from the nondisclosure the more likely you are, when you do come clean, to get "pilot disciplinary acrtion". And if they figure it out B4 you do, you will ge disciplinary action. Choose wisely.
 
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Well it's really hard to say without knowing the whole story, but, as told, the airman disclosed the conviction to his AME, who is delegated the authority from the administrator to determine if the airman is eligible for a medical certificate. The AME determined that the airman is eligible.

So. If I was that airman, and I wasn't sure if the story was actually as told, I'd do two things: 1) request my medical file from the FAA to see what's in it, and 2) schedule a consultation with your AME and go over everything to make sure this is already in his files. If so, it's PRNC.
 
Lindberg said:
Well it's really hard to say without knowing the whole story, but, as told, the airman disclosed the conviction to his AME, who is delegated the authority from the administrator to determine if the airman is eligible for a medical certificate. The AME determined that the airman is eligible.

So. If I was that airman, and I wasn't sure if the story was actually as told, I'd do two things: 1) request my medical file from the FAA to see what's in it, and 2) schedule a consultation with your AME and go over everything to make sure this is already in his files. If so, it's PRNC.
Click to expand...
Well that’s a fantasy…..
The AME was misled by the Airman’s “no” in 18v…..That much is IN WRITING on the form.
BC
 
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