Independent CFI Insurance

gdwindowpane

gdwindowpane

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
340
Location
Halifax, Virginia
Display Name
Display name:
gdwindowpane
The airport authority at the field close to me is requiring all aviation related business operations including maintenance, flight instructions, rental, banner towing, charter, etc. to carry $1,000,000 liability insurance naming the Airport Authority as an additional insured.

One of the CFI's that instructs at the airport does not own a plane. His insurance guy sent him an email stating this, "Based on my conversation with our carrier AIG they do not offer additional insured coverage for airports. They informed me that I would not be able to find that coverage anywhere."

So is this really not possible for the CFI or does he just need to look somewhere else, Avemco or something?

I think I have read somewhere that a public airport, which received federal grants, can not do anything which would discourage business/competition. Did I make this up or did I in fact read it somewhere.

Was hoping to start a club here but with the current management potential members are bailing out left and right.

Thanks for your input!

Chris
 
Independent CFI = business. That business should have insurance (general liability)... talk to a business insurance agent... they can get you squared away.
 
Airports are allowed to enforce “minimum standards” for any business operating on that airport.
 
This is exactly what I'm researching at the moment as well, though my intent is to have my own aircraft, too. Was kind of surprised when I looked at the shade hangar rental agreement that specifies no commercial operations including flight instruction can be conducted while renting one. Well that's awesome... I'm awaiting a response on options.
 
Can a public airport even do that?

I used to freelance I kept it as unofficial as possible, cash or trade for me and my students got renters insurance
 
MrAnderson said:
Independent CFI = business. That business should have insurance (general liability)... talk to a business insurance agent... they can get you squared away.
Click to expand...

And everyone should have a proper BMI too
 
James331 said:
And everyone should have a proper BMI too
Click to expand...
But should is the key word there. You don’t have to, but liability can get pretty ugly and expensive in a hurry.

A question to the OP, where is the CFI getting aircraft for instruction?
 
MrAnderson said:
But should is the key word there. You don’t have to, but liability can get pretty ugly and expensive in a hurry.

A question to the OP, where is the CFI getting aircraft for instruction?
Click to expand...

So look at your hand and place your bet, you’re gambling ether way.

Forcing someone to have that crazy high policy to just freelance CFI is BS all day long. What happens if you just ignore it?
 
If your not renting anything from the airport then you have no more liability than John Doe flying in on Tuesday. I assume the aircraft would be provided or rented by the student and that rental would have the GLI included from whomever operates that.
 
In my amateur opinion I know airport authorities often try to require this and I think it entirely stupid for them to do so. It does make lots of money for insurance companies for things they will insure and only minimally protects the airport. It basically means every business on the airport is buying insurance that the airport should be purchasing to protect themselves. So the insurance companies get a lot of customers instead of just one. What happens when the one of the businesses burns down one of the airports buildings after letting his insurance expire? The airport is still going to have to eat the loss, or spend a lot of money trying to recover it from someone that probably doesn't have it.

And what do they mean by an Independent CFI? Does he rent an office at the airport? Or does he just show up at someones hanger and go flying? The CFI's base of operations may not even be at that airport.

Brian
 
The CFI instructs pilots that own their own airplanes. All of which are based at this local airport. The airport manager makes up his own rules and is not well liked. He is doing his best to kill aviation in the area. Airport is owned by the county and is losing $200,000/year. The 3 county commissioners are up for reelection but are pretty much running unopposed. Next closest airport to me is an hour plus drive away. Thats where I’m training now. This local airport is 10 minutes away.
 
James331 said:
Can a public airport even do that?

I used to freelance I kept it as unofficial as possible, cash or trade for me and my students got renters insurance
Click to expand...

Yes, an airport can do that and it is common for the airport the require the owners of aircraft stored on the airport to have $1 million liability name the airport as an insured.

And yes the airport can bar your freelancing if you do not comply.
 
What I would like to know is if its possible for the CFI to get liability insurance with the airport as a named insured? The CFI is saying it is unobtainable. I have a feeling that he could get it but just wants to cause more drama.
 
gdwindowpane said:
The CFI instructs pilots that own their own airplanes. All of which are based at this local airport. The airport manager makes up his own rules and is not well liked. He is doing his best to kill aviation in the area. Airport is owned by the county and is losing $200,000/year. The 3 county commissioners are up for reelection but are pretty much running unopposed. Next closest airport to me is an hour plus drive away. Thats where I’m training now. This local airport is 10 minutes away.
Click to expand...

The CFI is operating a flight instruction business on the airport. He is required to meet the requirements of the airport to operate a business. Yes, he can get insurance, the cost is prohibitive.
 
Clip4 said:
Yes, an airport can do that and it is common for the airport the require the owners of aircraft stored on the airport to have $1 million liability name the airport as an insured.

And yes the airport can bar your freelancing if you do not comply.
Click to expand...

What a screwed up system we have

And maybe why I try to not use airports.

Dangerous and filled with people trying to steal my money.
 
Ugh, is every airport manager someone who didn't make the cut at DMV? Let that **** roll downhill. The CFI should demand named status on each of his client aircraft insurance policies and wallpaper the idiot airport manager with insurance docs.

Plan B: I thought NAFI offered a CFI non-owned/instruction insurance policy that could work here?
 
schmookeeg said:
Plan B: I thought NAFI offered a CFI non-owned/instruction insurance policy that could work here?
Click to expand...

Avemco does for sure. I was looking at it before. Reasonable rates, too.
 
Yeah I see where Avemco has CFI non-owner policies. The sticky wicket is the airport being a named insured. I see a spot on the app about adding your employer (as long as they arent in an aviation business). I’ll have him check out Avemco.

thanks!

chris
 
gdwindowpane said:
What I would like to know is if its possible for the CFI to get liability insurance with the airport as a named insured? The CFI is saying it is unobtainable.
Click to expand...

Based on how you're describing the insurance requirements, I've never heard of a policy like this with the airport/airport sponsor being named insured. It is likely no such product exists. Although unlikely, are there provisions for self insuring?

Having the airport/airport sponsor as an additional named insured on aircraft policies is quite common but I've never heard of it being a thing on a non-owned type policy or CFI policy.
 
mondtster said:
Based on how you're describing the insurance requirements, I've never heard of a policy like this with the airport/airport sponsor being named insured. It is likely no such product exists. Although unlikely, are there provisions for self insuring?

Having the airport/airport sponsor as an additional named insured on aircraft policies is quite common but I've never heard of it being a thing on a non-owned type policy or CFI policy.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if an insurance company would agree to defend an airport on a CFI policy.
 
Clip4 said:
I would be surprised if an insurance company would agree to defend an airport on a CFI policy.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and that is what the OP is asking about. This sounds like a typical case of the airport sponsor and/or airport manager having no clue what they’re talking about and asking for.
 
mondtster said:
Exactly, and that is what the OP is asking about. This sounds like a typical case of the airport sponsor and/or airport manager having no clue what they’re talking about and asking for.
Click to expand...

There are 100s of flight schools that provide a policy naming the airport every year. The airports position is you are in the flight instruction business. Where you get the policy is your problem.
 
Clip4 said:
There are 100s of flight schools that provide a policy naming the airport every year. The airports position is you are in the flight instruction business. Where you get the policy is your problem.
Click to expand...

What’s your point? The OP isn’t discussing a flight school.
 
mondtster said:
What’s your point? The OP isn’t discussing a flight school.
Click to expand...

Yes he is. A flight school business with no aircraft and one CFI. No different than a mechanic without a hangar providing repair service in on the field, both have to meet airport requirements for businesses.
 
Last edited:
We had the same issue with the airport authority driving away the few independent mechanics who kept the planes flying. Unfortunately they can enforce 'uniform commercial standards'. Unless they make a category of 'independent CFI' or 'trunk-monkey mechanic' they have to enforce the same insurance requirement as they would have for a branch of ATP or a Gulfstream repair station.
 
mondtster said:
What’s your point? The OP isn’t discussing a flight school.
Click to expand...

See post #15. As far as the airport is concerned it's an aviation business, that's all that matters.

This is what Clark County requires just to rent a shade hangar:

Aircraft Liability Insurance coverage for injury to persons and property damage, and such other coverage as may be necessary to protect County from such claims and actions by Tenant, either on the Airport or within the Premises. Said insurance shall have limits of not less than One Million ($1,000,000) Dollars. Tenant agrees to name CLARK COUNTY, ITS OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AND VOLUNTEERS as additional insured on any Aircraft Liability insurance policy intended for protection under this Agreement.
Click to expand...
 
Airport being an “additional insured” is common rather than “named insured”. Semantics i know but there is a difference in insurance. And check in with a broker, like APOA or any local independent aviation insurance broker who can go out to ALL the aviation insurance markets, since some companies offer that coverage and some don’t. Nobody likes insurance but getting sued and paying out of pocket is a far worse outcome. I know of several current lawsuits where the pilot wrecked his plane due to poor skills and sued the airport for having a “bad runway”, whatever the hell that means. So the airport want the CFI to cover their arses when the student prangs it hard and sues the CFI and the airport. Common “endorsement” in the industry.
 
Clip4 said:
That is exactly what was discussed in the original inquiry.
Click to expand...

No it wasn’t. The op was looking for independent CFI insurance, not business insurance. Which is why I initially responded how I did, which you agreed with. There is no CFI insurance like that that I am aware of. Insuring the business is another matter.

Edit: There’s a reason his broker can’t find what they’re looking for. I believe they’re looking for the wrong thing.
 
gdwindowpane said:
What I would like to know is if its possible for the CFI to get liability insurance with the airport as a named insured? The CFI is saying it is unobtainable. I have a feeling that he could get it but just wants to cause more drama.
Click to expand...

Make sure you know what you are asking for. The typical thing for an airport to require is to be listed as 'additional insured' and this is routine for an insurance Co to provide. What rights that confers to the airport depends on which state you are in.
 
mondtster said:
No it wasn’t. The op was looking for independent CFI insurance, not business insurance. Which is why I initially responded how I did, which you agreed with. There is no CFI insurance like that that I am aware of. Insuring the business is another matter.
Click to expand...

The initial post doesnt state what type of insurance he is looking for.

As a freelancer who doesn't rent property fr the airport, there is little need for a general commercial liability policy. If there is no floor he rents, there is no angle for the slip&fall racket to attack him.
 
weilke said:
The initial post doesnt state what type of insurance he is looking for.

As a freelancer who doesn't rent property fr the airport, there is little need for a general commercial liability policy. If there is no floor he rents, there is no angle for the slip&fall racket to attack him.
Click to expand...

I was going by the thread title.

100% agreed on the rest. I’m a bit perplexed by the airports expectation, assuming there is no space being leased from the airport itself.
 
mondtster said:
No it wasn’t. The op was looking for independent CFI insurance, not business insurance. Which is why I initially responded how I did, which you agreed with. There is no CFI insurance like that that I am aware of. Insuring the business is another matter.

Edit: There’s a reason his broker can’t find what they’re looking for. I believe they’re looking for the wrong thing.
Click to expand...

Most independent CFIs doing this type of instruction do so on a very limited basis and under the radar of airport management. In this case, the CFI appears to be well known to management.
 
Clip4 said:
Most independent CFIs doing this type of instruction do so on a very limited basis and under the radar of airport management. In this case, the CFI appears to be well known to management.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The guys I know, including myself, would just ignore the request in the first place. It’s ridiculous, assuming there is no office space/property being rented from the airport.
 
mondtster said:
I was going by the thread title.

100% agreed on the rest. I’m a bit perplexed by the airports expectation, assuming there is no space being leased from the airport itself.
Click to expand...

In most cases the desire to be listed as 'additional insured' is to preclude the insurer from suing the airport in case of a claim (as they would have to sue themselves). Whether the listing as 'additional insured' actually achieves that goal is a question for an insurance lawyer practicing in the state at issue . It is my understanding that the answer varies from state to state.
 
mondtster said:
Agreed. The guys I know, including myself, would just ignore the request in the first place. It’s ridiculous, assuming there is no office space/property being rented from the airport.
Click to expand...

I guess you could ignore them until they gave you a trespass notice.
 
The independent cfi and airport manager know each other very well. The amount of animosity between them is incredible.

How would the airport manager know if instruction was being given? I invite the cfi to go flying with me. He accepts and just happens to sign my log book after the flight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top