Increased Visibility in a Cessna 172

eetrojan

eetrojan

Pattern Altitude
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eetrojan
I learned something today.

For months on end, I trained in a low wing LSA with a bubble canopy. I could see everywhere I turned my head. No constraints. Very free feeling. About a week ago, I made my first flight in a Cessna 172 and was kind of disappointed. It felt, by comparison, like I was flying in a dark box with slits.

I went up again today and did some more stalls, slow flight, performance takeoffs and landings, etc. It flew like a charm, steady, forgiving, and smooth.

And today, I learned that about this magic little crank - previously operated by a much shorter pilot - that lets me lower the seat so that my eyes aren't located three inches above the top of the side window. Doh. Who knew you’re supposed to see outside? That was much, much better.

I'm not so smart.

I am now “checked out” in a Cessna 172S and look forward to discovering other wondrous adjustments.
 
I actually prefer to have my seat relatively high as I can't see above the wings so I'd rather maximize my forward and downward viability. Not above the window high like your last guy had it but high. For upward and lateral viability I look out the sides of the windshield ahead of the wings, that way you will have an almost 200 degree forward arc in the horizontal you can see and an arc going from vertical to about 20 to 30 degrees below the horizon. You'll lose some rearward visibility and looking out the windows will be less useful. You'll also have to get used to looking with your neck and head. The biggest benefit to being high in the seat is better visibility of the runway during the flare. Really helps keep it aligned and smooth.

But, yes, I agree the Cessna does cut into your visibility a lot compared to a bubble canopy.
 
"S"'s generally fly really nice compared to the beat-up N's typically found available to rent. Really dislike the 4011 sump points. Somebody really blew it when thinking that one through.
 
Clark1961 said:
"S"'s generally fly really nice compared to the beat-up N's typically found available to rent. Really dislike the 4011 sump points. Somebody really blew it when thinking that one through.
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Other, much better options were offered to Cessna.
 
I like to be up as high as I can. The visibility over the nose is important to me. Nearly all my 170 hours( all but about 30) are in a 172s. I love the plane!
 
I crank it all the way up, too. I am 5-10+. You must be pretty tall.
 
alfadog said:
I crank it all the way up, too. I am 5-10+. You must be pretty tall.
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I'm only 5'11" but I crank it all the way down or my headset bumps the ceiling. Apparently I have a long torso. I have to lean over or forward to see to the horizon out the side windows.

In fact, you can get an idea of where my head is relative to the windows by my avatar picture. That's a C-172.

John

Edit: Added the bit about my avatar.
 
You guys all need to try a 177 some time.

:)
 
jsstevens said:
I'm only 5'11" but I crank it all the way down or my headset bumps the ceiling. Apparently I have a long torso. I have to lean over or forward to see to the horizon out the side windows.

In fact, you can get an idea of where my head is relative to the windows by my avatar picture. That's a C-172.

John

Edit: Added the bit about my avatar.
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Here's me in a 172. This pic was probably taken by my 11-year-old son so there would be an up-angle on it.

member_84205302.jpeg
 
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
 
radioguy01 said:
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
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Much less of a problem in a Cardinal. There is no side strut, and the wings are back far enough that you have good vision in front of the wing, even as you are turning. Certainly not as good as a low wing, but you can definitely see the runway as you turn base to final.
 
PPC1052 said:
Much less of a problem in a Cardinal. There is no side strut, and the wings are back far enough that you have good vision in front of the wing, even as you are turning. Certainly not as good as a low wing, but you can definitely see the runway as you turn base to final.
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The drawback for a Cardinal is that you cannot be even a little slow on final, or you won't be able to see straight ahead. Nail your airspeeds and you're fine. But that nose sticks WAY out and will cover the runway on final if you get even a little behind the power curve, especially with the flaps out.

Some people have trouble with the highly sloped windshield in a 177, if they need the seat far forward. I've heard this complaint from multiple short people (presumably with the seat really high as well), but it's not a problem I've had.

In a 172, you learn how to handle those turns safely and comfortably, fairly quickly. Look before you turn, and use landmarks on the ground ahead of you before the turn to confirm. You will be able to see these throughout the turn even with wings up (unless they are real close).
 
You must be sitting on the floor or in the back seat because it isn't that much different. I just use peripheral vision from flare all the way to nose gear touchdown, which is usually when the tail won't hold the nose up anymore.

They do fine slightly off speeds, what they don't tolerate well is unsteady elevator movements.

 
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radioguy01 said:
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
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How many hours do you have in the 172? That worry will go away once you get used to flying it. As was said I use landmarks and the heading indicator to tell me where to stop the turn. Also many roads and tree lines can run partake lot perpendicular to the extended centerline, I always make use of those too.
 
radioguy01 said:
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
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I must be doing something wrong because I never noticed much of a problem even in right-hand patterns. And it is certainly not from limiting myself to shallow banks.
 
bnt83 said:
You must be sitting on the floor or in the back seat because it isn't that much different. I just use peripheral vision from flare all the way to nose gear touchdown, which is usually when the tail won't hold the nose up anymore.

They do fine slightly off speeds, what they don't tolerate well is unsteady elevator movements.
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That's a much older 177 than the one I fly -- or most of them, for that matter.

I do keep the seat a bit down and back to make room for a kneeboard, but it's nowhere near the floor or the back seat.

You also have special controls in that aircraft that may affect your seat placement.
 
radioguy01 said:
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
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Try marking something on the ground somewhat off centerline and map your desired track around it. It's like training your avian cortex.

I can never see my way out of high wings and with time I got pretty good at rocking wings and stepping the rudder for it. Of course it's no help for pattern turns, but I do them per the above.

BTW, I fly 172s with seat all the way down and still my eyes are just barely below the wing.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
I learned something today.

For months on end, I trained in a low wing LSA with a bubble canopy. I could see everywhere I turned my head. No constraints. Very free feeling. About a week ago, I made my first flight in a Cessna 172 and was kind of disappointed. It felt, by comparison, like I was flying in a dark box with slits.

I went up again today and did some more stalls, slow flight, performance takeoffs and landings, etc. It flew like a charm, steady, forgiving, and smooth.

And today, I learned that about this magic little crank - previously operated by a much shorter pilot - that lets me lower the seat so that my eyes aren't located three inches above the top of the side window. Doh. Who knew you’re supposed to see outside? That was much, much better.

I'm not so smart.

I am now “checked out” in a Cessna 172S and look forward to discovering other wondrous adjustments.
Click to expand...
Hi there..I just got my PPL couple of weeks back and thinking of checking out the 172, how hard is it to move from 152 to 172? Somebody said that for 172 G1000, we need 5 hours to check out. Is this correct? I was thinking it will be a good idea to checkout 172 G and work on instrument rating, in this way I can check out on a 172 and get some instrument time as well?
 
Transitioning to the avionics will be more involved than transitioning to the airplane. Coming from the 152 you'll get used to flying the 172 in no time, but the G1000 may take some getting used to.
 
Agreed. As a current G1000 transitionee, 5 hours just to get proficient on the G1000 seems rather short. It is a MUCH more complex aircraft.

Transitioning 152 to 172 with the same panel takes an hour at most. The major differences are slightly faster V speeds (approach at 60 instead of 55), a four position fuel selector that you can still put on both and forget about, and a different location for the tach.

G1000 has no benefit for VFR flying. It has some for instrument flying, especially the PFD layout. But the cost you pay for that is multiple bust-the-checkride buttons.
 
radioguy01 said:
I like the cessna but something feels inherently unsafe about not being able to see when in the direction I'm turning. I'm still a student, but when in the pattern etc I basically have to come out of a turn based on where the runway is on my heading indicator. Not based on where I can see.
Click to expand...

Lift the wing first, look carefully, then commence your turn.
 
There is a rental 1982 Cessna 172Q at one of the airports I rent from, and it doesn't even have a seat crank :nonod:. I'm 6'3" tall, so I like to sit as low as possible so that I can see outside and yet not run the chance of ruining my posture.
 
StinkBug said:
Take a trip down to CRQ. There's one that was just added to my clubs fleet there.
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I'm excited to get checked out in it sometime, too, although the pictures don't look too impressive. There's a beautiful private 177 at MYF that I love checking out every time I'm there.
 
I'm a Cessna driver but I'd love to fly something with a bubble canopy. The views must be amazing.
 
My dad's Harmony(basically what the OP normally flies) has really great visibility all around. I much prefer it to the high wing types.
 
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