Incident at OSH?

[donjohnston]

Was watching traffic on the arrival and noticed that everyone is getting turned around near Fisk.

I do see some aircraft getting in though.

Anyone heard anything?

 

[donjohnston]

Traffic flowing again.

 

[AV8R_87]

Interesting traffic flow, though.
Arriving traffic seems to be landing on 18, entering on a crosswind for 18 and crossing paths (different altitudes, a few hundred feet apart) with the traffic departing 18.

 

[dachar89]

One of the holds was for the Delta A321 arrival.

 

[kyleb]

Interesting traffic flow, though.
Arriving traffic seems to be landing on 18, entering on a crosswind for 18 and crossing paths (different altitudes, a few hundred feet apart) with the traffic departing 18.

That’s why the NOTAM has you stay at 500’ on departure until outside the airspace. It keeps the outbound below the inbound stream.

 

[DJTorrente]

Not uncommon for tower to call Ripon and tell them to throttle VFR arrivals temporarily.

Opposing Bases: Air Traffic Talk: Notice-AirVenture is Approaching (Re-Release)

OB287: Notice—AirVenture Is Approaching (Rebroadcast) With AirVenture just days away, we’re revisiting one of our most popular prep episodes: OB287. Originally recorded in 2023, this episode walks through the Fisk Arrival, AirVenture planning tips, common pilot mistakes, and practical reminders...

opposingbases.libsyn.com

 

[AV8R_87]

That’s why the NOTAM has you stay at 500’ on departure until outside the airspace. It keeps the outbound below the inbound stream.

Thanks, I only read the arrivals portion. I'll read the departure info when (if) I make it there.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I witnessed an almost-incident. Heck, almost became part of it.

I was walking on the side of the road around the departure end of the STOL field. Had my face down in my phone. The STOL demo was wrapping up.

Suddenly a bunch of people yelled "watch out!" and ran past me. I scrambled backwards with them.

One of the STOL aircraft, a 182 I think, aborted takeoff due to engine failure. He touched down about 20 feet in front of us, killed a few cones on the side of the road, and stopped in the grass. 4 fire trucks followed.

TBH the EAA does not know how close they came to disaster. Man, if there had been a tram, bus, or old folks on the road, it would have been bloody.

 

[midwestpa24]

I saw a brief story a little bit ago on social media but can't find it again about a possible airplane accident near Rockford this afternoon. Haven't seen posted anywhere else.

 

[AV8R_87]

I saw a brief story a little bit ago on social media but can't find it again about a possible airplane accident near Rockford this afternoon. Haven't seen posted anywhere else.

This one?
L-39 on its way to OSH:

1 dead, 1 injured in jet crash near Granite Falls airport

A 911 caller reported the aircraft had crashed near the intersection of Highway 23 and 540th Street in Granite Falls on Monday around 5:32 p.m.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[masloki]

Or this one (press play)?

 

[Hypie]

Probably this one yesterday just south of Rockford, crop duster.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

I witnessed an almost-incident. Heck, almost became part of it.

I was walking on the side of the road around the departure end of the STOL field. Had my face down in my phone. The STOL demo was wrapping up.

Suddenly a bunch of people yelled "watch out!" and ran past me. I scrambled backwards with them.

One of the STOL aircraft, a 182 I think, aborted takeoff due to engine failure. He touched down about 20 feet in front of us, killed a few cones on the side of the road, and stopped in the grass. 4 fire trucks followed.

TBH the EAA does not know how close they came to disaster. Man, if there had been a tram, bus, or old folks on the road, it would have been bloody.

I was at the STOL show and saw that, it was shortly after we arrived at OSH. In fact it was the first event we saw!
Had the same thought: if there was a tram or a group of spectators/pedestrians traversing the road there -- it could have been a real disaster. Now I see why they have the sign saying "NO STOPPING OR STANDING".

The announcers said he was moving under his own power a couple mins later. Not sure if they concluded what happened to his engine...

 

[Ed Haywood]

I was at the STOL show and saw that, it was shortly after we arrived at OSH. In fact it was the first event we saw!
Had the same thought: if there was a tram or a group of spectators/pedestrians traversing the road there -- it could have been a real disaster. Now I see why they have the sign saying "NO STOPPING OR STANDING".

The announcers said he was moving under his own power a couple mins later. Not sure if they concluded what happened to his engine...

Dunno, but I heard it cough and quit as it went past. I assume he was shutting it down.

Got more respect for the volunteers enforcing the no-standing rule there now.

It's funny. Do you know what you do when people run at you in a panic? Turn and run with them. I had no idea why I was running until the plane whooshed by.

 

[Ed Haywood]

The internet never fails. Video. Screenshot below. The guy in the blue shirt is me.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2595890720762439

 

[kayoh190]

Yikes!!!

 

[kyleb]

I’ll bet it is back to a UL or LSA field next year. It is way too tight for big iron with people around.

 

[AV8R_87]

After the mid-air a couple years ago I already questioned the position of the field and the safety implications.
It was probably a great location when all you had was powered parachutes and weigh-shift trikes. But it definitely seems too tight and too close to people and other airplanes for the stuff that flies there these days.

 

[Ed Haywood]

After the mid-air a couple years ago I already questioned the position of the field and the safety implications.
It was probably a great location when all you had was powered parachutes and weigh-shift trikes. But it definitely seems too tight and too close to people and other airplanes for the stuff that flies there these days.

They do a reasonable job of keeping the extended runway path clear, though perhaps they should be more aggressive about stopping foot traffic.

I do wonder about making the first departure turn so early though. Most of the aircraft were turning right at the corner of the woods. Until that point, they could keep going straight and have a clear path (blue), which is exactly what the 182 did. Not sure where they would land after the turn (red).

 

[Lowflynjack]

They do a reasonable job of keeping the extended runway path clear, though perhaps they should be more aggressive about stopping foot traffic.

That's the only path for foot traffic, so they either need to move the path, move the field, or just wait until a major accident forces them to shut it down. Even if they keep people moving, people walking through or a driving through is going to end badly if they don't make a change.

 

[mcdewey]

That's the only path for foot traffic, so they either need to move the path, move the field, or just wait until a major accident forces them to shut it down. Even if they keep people moving, people walking through or a driving through is going to end badly if they don't make a change.

They need a tunnel!!

 

[Ed Haywood]

I keep watching the video, laughing at the cone flying into the air. You gotta watch real close. I knew I did not imagine that.

Also watch me backing up after it passes, going "WTF?" Serves me right for browsing while walking. Probably PoA.

 

[baboss]

Wasn't there talk of moving the Ultralight field in recent years?

 

[kyleb]

Wasn't there talk of moving the Ultralight field in recent years?

EAA has purchased land SW of the airport for a field for the slow flyers - Cubs, Champs, etc. I’m not sure if it is supposed to double as the UL field too. I think the land was used for aircraft parking this year.

 

[Ed Haywood]

EAA has purchased land SW of the airport for a field for the slow flyers - Cubs, Champs, etc. I’m not sure if it is supposed to double as the UL field too. I think the land was used for aircraft parking this year.

There's a lot just south of the UL field that I don't recall being filled with aircraft parking in prior years. But I hadn't been to the South 40 in several years, so maybe it's not new.

 

[flyingron]

Just south of the UL field on the airport property are a couple of triangular parcels used for camping. Beyond that is off the airport.

A bit further down is "Blue Sky " (aka, the gated community / green acres) which is vintage parking. We've had an ultralight land in there. An ultralight has landed in Schoeller too.

Right off the end of the of the UL runway normally gets some DC-3s or other huge classics. This year there wasn't much there because theg round was soft. We were using that as taxiway to get planes down south. Normally, we taxi pretty much in line with what would be taxiway Papa if it extended down that far, but that area was really soupy as demostrated by an idiot King Air that wouldn't follow the marshallers and ended up sunk to the axles. (Where's Joe Patroni when we need him?)

 

[kyleb]

Normally, we taxi pretty much in line with what would be taxiway Papa if it extended down that far, but that area was really soupy as demostrated by an idiot King Air that wouldn't follow the marshallers and ended up sunk to the axles. (Where's Joe Patroni when we need him?)

And then there was the guy in the 172 who did a bad job following the marshalls around the King Air (and cones) and prop-struck a cone. We were walking by as the 172 had his mishap and were surprised there was no "follow me" scooter or golf cart to lead the airplane through what looked like a maze of cones. At the least, that area needed a white painted center line or something, because I could see how a pilot could get confused.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Was watching traffic on the arrival and noticed that everyone is getting turned around near Fisk.

I do see some aircraft getting in though.

Anyone heard anything?

There were some pauses for big things to arrive, mass arrivals to get in... But there was also a pause for a Questair Venture whose nose gear got stuck. Photos by Ethan Brodsky:

Arriving traffic seems to be landing on 18, entering on a crosswind for 18 and crossing paths (different altitudes, a few hundred feet apart) with the traffic departing 18.

Perfectly normal. That's why some of the departures are restricted to 500 AGL until clearing the Delta, they go under the arrivals.

I witnessed an almost-incident. Heck, almost became part of it.

I was walking on the side of the road around the departure end of the STOL field. Had my face down in my phone. The STOL demo was wrapping up.

Suddenly a bunch of people yelled "watch out!" and ran past me. I scrambled backwards with them.

One of the STOL aircraft, a 182 I think, aborted takeoff due to engine failure. He touched down about 20 feet in front of us, killed a few cones on the side of the road, and stopped in the grass. 4 fire trucks followed.

I was about 50-100 feet in front of you, the 182 went right behind me.

The announcers said he was moving under his own power a couple mins later. Not sure if they concluded what happened to his engine...

People were saying carb ice. High humidity, and he was idling for quite a while before takeoff.

They need a tunnel!!

You laugh... But that's not a bad idea, nor is it completely implausible! EAA has paid for a lot of improvements to the site over the years.

EAA has purchased land SW of the airport for a field for the slow flyers - Cubs, Champs, etc. I’m not sure if it is supposed to double as the UL field too. I think the land was used for aircraft parking this year.

Do you mean the newer Vintage section through the gate, kind of west of most of the South 40?

There's a lot just south of the UL field that I don't recall being filled with aircraft parking in prior years. But I hadn't been to the South 40 in several years, so maybe it's not new.

The one I think we're talking about here has been open for at least a couple of years, but I saw a lot more airplanes in it this year than I've seen before.

A bit further down is "Blue Sky " (aka, the gated community / green acres) which is vintage parking. We've had an ultralight land in there. An ultralight has landed in Schoeller too.

Scholler at least has the specific clearway that's made for emergency landings, otherwise it'd be horrible to have to land in there.

Right off the end of the of the UL runway normally gets some DC-3s or other huge classics. This year there wasn't much there because theg round was soft.

It looked to me like where the 182 went was specifically kept clear for that exact scenario. It would be nice if there was a way for traffic to not be there too though.

 

[flyingron]

It looked to me like where the 182 went was specifically kept clear for that exact scenario. It would be nice if there was a way for traffic to not be there too though.

There's not that much room. You could route traffic on the security road but that would just cross the other end of the UL runway.

 

[Ed Haywood]

It looked to me like where the 182 went was specifically kept clear for that exact scenario.

It was. There were road guards on both sides of the runout path to keep it clear. They alerted those of us walking along that segment of the road to get out of the way. I think they were also blocking trams during takeoffs. So the system worked as planned.

However, they might need to consider blocking foot traffic when aircraft are actively taking off. I can see little kids, the elderly, or disabled persons having trouble getting out of the way.

 

[Grum.Man]

There were some pauses for big things to arrive, mass arrivals to get in... But there was also a pause for a Questair Venture whose nose gear got stuck.
View attachment 143404

View attachment 143405


Perfectly normal. That's why some of the departures are restricted to 500 AGL until clearing the Delta, they go under the arrivals.


I was about 50-100 feet in front of you, the 182 went right behind me.


People were saying carb ice. High humidity, and he was idling for quite a while before takeoff.


You laugh... But that's not a bad idea, nor is it completely implausible! EAA has paid for a lot of improvements to the site over the years.


Do you mean the newer Vintage section through the gate, kind of west of most of the South 40?


The one I think we're talking about here has been open for at least a couple of years, but I saw a lot more airplanes in it this year than I've seen before.


Scholler at least has the specific clearway that's made for emergency landings, otherwise it'd be horrible to have to land in there.


It looked to me like where the 182 went was specifically kept clear for that exact scenario. It would be nice if there was a way for traffic to not be there too though.

It's uncommon for the nose gear to fail, haven't had a chance to talk with him to get a diagnosis. Seems all Ventures have different backup systems, not sure what this one had. I know a lot of owners don't test the backup system since it's such a pain to reset it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's uncommon for the nose gear to fail, haven't had a chance to talk with him to get a diagnosis. Seems all Ventures have different backup systems, not sure what this one had. I know a lot of owners don't test the backup system since it's such a pain to reset it.

I saw a thread on another forum referencing frequent landing gear issues that went unaddressed being one reason for the type's lack of popularity. How does the landing gear system work, and what are the common failure modes?

It is a really neat-looking plane and performs really well, so it is somewhat surprising they're so rare.

 

[Grum.Man]

I saw a thread on another forum referencing frequent landing gear issues that went unaddressed being one reason for the type's lack of popularity. How does the landing gear system work, and what are the common failure modes?

It is a really neat-looking plane and performs really well, so it is somewhat surprising they're so rare.

Well they are rare so the pool of first hand experiences will be pretty shallow, take what you've read as a grain of salt. The gear is complicated for sure but pretty reliable and straight forward. It is difficult to get it set up properly but once it is, it's quite forgiving. The difficulty is primarily in the main gear legs. It's like trying to package a tent back into it's original box. Tolerances are extremely tight so adjusting and timing the system takes finesse.

The main gear and nose gear is driven down by an electric jack screw, in fact it is an electric cessna flap screw for the most part. It all operates off limit and squat switches. The nose gear is straight forward with your typical over center dog bone link. The main gear has a spreader bar that spreads the two gear legs when the end of a tether is reached. Now, some people removed the jack screw for a hydraulic system, no idea which system Tom's airplane has. Planes also differ on the backup system. The original backup system was a gas charged strut similar to what's in your car to hold the trunk or hood open. You pulled a cable that would decouple the jack screw and between gravity and that pressurized strut it would send the gear home. Problem with that was air loads and you only got one chance. If you pulled the backup while you were going too fast it wouldn't have the momentum to go over center. If it failed on the first try, your only hope was high g turns or bump maneuvers. My plane has a more traditional approach of having a mechanical hydraulic pump down with a manual hydraulic pump mounted in the center glovebox.

The main reason they aren't popular today is because of how incredibly complex it was to build. Secondarily the company sold the kits way too cheap to turn a profit. When they first launched you could buy the kit with an engine and propeller for 62k dollars. Not chump change in 1987 but a relative bargain still. On top of all that looks sell, it looks funny/awkward/dangerous, people didn't understand how it could work. All designs are compromises but when it comes to personal rockets of the 80's and 90's the Venture really is the best of them all. It's more comfortable than the Lancair/Glasair/Swearingen. It was faster than the Glasair and as fast as a Lancair but on less HP (280 vs 310). On equal power the Swaringen and Venture are neck and neck, probably a slight edge to the Swearingen but with a much lower stall speed. To do that it had to be complex. Like a Germain engineered machine going up against Corvette's. A little more polished but at the expense of complexity.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Plenty of great designs never take off, so to speak. The ones that break through to widespread adoption are those that figure out the enterprise side. Sound business practices, production at scale, customer support, etc. Vans is the model for this, of course.

 

[kyleb]

Well they are rare so the pool of first hand experiences will be pretty shallow, take what you've read as a grain of salt. The gear is complicated for sure but pretty reliable and straight forward. It is difficult to get it set up properly but once it is, it's quite forgiving. The difficulty is primarily in the main gear legs. It's like trying to package a tent back into it's original box. Tolerances are extremely tight so adjusting and timing the system takes finesse.

As I recall, the other issue was a shock/spring issue with the main gear where the airplane didn't naturally self-level side to side on the ground, which led to some interesting ground handling issues. Bright people eventually solved that one.

 

[kyleb]

Plenty of great designs never take off, so to speak. The ones that break through to widespread adoption are those that figure out the enterprise side. Sound business practices, production at scale, customer support, etc. Vans is the model for this, of course.

The sad thing is nobody else has come close. Sling could make a run. You could argue Kitfox. And before that you had the Rutan plans built aircraft. But Van's scale and longevity are way above the rest.