In Honor of November 11th...

[bstratt]

Normandy - then and now

 

[JeffDG]

Remember reciting this every year as a kid...gotta teach it to my daugher:

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Barry: What's the significance of November 11th? I always think of D Day on June 6th. Oh, I see, Veteran's Day.

Joyce Kilmer who wrote the poem Trees was also in WWI along with several notable folks in the same unit.

During the Second Battle of Marne, there was heavy fighting throughout the last days of July 1918, and on July 30, 1918, Kilmer volunteered to accompany Major William "Wild Bill" Donovan when Donovan's First Battalion was sent to lead the day's attack. Anyone know who Bill Donovan was?

Best,

Dave

 

[Ghery]

Barry: What's the significance of November 11th? I always think of D Day on June 6th. Oh, I see, Veteran's Day.

Joyce Kilmer who wrote the poem Trees was also in WWI along with several notable folks in the same unit.

During the Second Battle of Marne, there was heavy fighting throughout the last days of July 1918, and on July 30, 1918, Kilmer volunteered to accompany Major William "Wild Bill" Donovan when Donovan's First Battalion was sent to lead the day's attack. Anyone know who Bill Donovan was?

Best,

Dave

Head of the OSS in WWII and father of the CIA. And I didn't have to look at your link, either.

 

[JeffDG]

Barry: What's the significance of November 11th? I always think of D Day on June 6th. Oh, I see, Veteran's Day.

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, the guns fell silent on the Western Front, with the Armistice that ended WWI.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, the guns fell silent on the Western Front, with the Armistice that ended WWI.

Yes, and some units fought right up until the time of the cease fire even though they knew when it would be.

Best,

Dave

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Head of the OSS in WWII and father of the CIA. And I didn't have to look at your link, either.

Yes, and a very successful attorney in the civilian world. Holder of the CMH.

Army Special Forces traces it's roots to the OSS and some of the operations conducted in WWII.

Best,

Dave

 

[JeffDG]

Yes, and some units fought right up until the time of the cease fire even though they knew when it would be.

Best,

Dave

Kinda like the Battle of New Orleans, which occurred after the end of the War of 1812!

 

[bstratt]

Here's a Canadian remembrance.

 

[JeffDG]

Here's a Canadian remembrance.

Bugs me that I can't find poppies down here...

 

[ScottM]

Bugs me that I can't find poppies down here...

See your local VFW. Poppies are sold to raise money that may only be used to support hospitalized veterans and active duty soldiers.

 

[JeffDG]

See your local VFW. Poppies are sold to raise money that may only be used to support hospitalized veterans and active duty soldiers.

Thanks...I'll have to go find them...

Up in Canada, the Royal Canadian Legion sells them, and they're in every grocery, convenience, liquor, and other store from late October through November 11.

 

[Keith Lane]

This came from the same guy who had sent me the Normandy then-and-now slide show earlier....

A lone young Belgian boy waits to salute Canadian Troops, who were attending a memorial service.
The "Eyes Right" command is usually reserved for dignitaries at reviewing stands. How's this for class? Watch what they do for this little boy.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

This came from the same guy who had sent me the Normandy then-and-now slide show earlier....

A lone young Belgian boy waits to salute Canadian Troops, who were attending a memorial service.
The "Eyes Right" command is usually reserved for dignitaries at reviewing stands. How's this for class? Watch what they do for this little boy.

Nice.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, the guns fell silent on the Western Front, with the Armistice that ended WWI.

The armistice was signed in a rail car in a forest near Compiegne. Hitler somehow dug up that same rail car and dragged it to Compiegne; the French surrendered there, in the car, in 1940.

Yes, and some units fought right up until the time of the cease fire even though they knew when it would be.

Best,

Dave

Utter foolishness. Utter, utter, beyond any understanding, foolishness. Which summarizes that entire war. Why it was fought, why it last over four years, and why there were people dying literally right up to 11:00 on 11/11/18 will forever be beyond me.

World War I is, beyond all else, a demonstration of the stupidity of man.

Yes, and a very successful attorney in the civilian world. Holder of the CMH.

Army Special Forces traces it's roots to the OSS and some of the operations conducted in WWII.

Best,

Dave

Donovan was a very interesting character. Wrote a big-time paper about him, the OSS, and the Italian surrender a few years back.

Interestingly, the OSS was formed after Pearl Harbor; the primary reason was that, intelligence-wise, the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. The State Dept. had its own intelligence service, the Army had its own intelligence service, and the Navy had its own intelligence service.

It turns out that, on Dec. 6, 1941, the U.S. had all the information it needed to know that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. The problem was that the State Dept. had some of that information, the Army had some of that information, and the Navy had some of that information. But, due in no small part to foolish (there's that word again) inter-service rivalries, nobody put all of that information together.

So, the OSS was created, I believe in 1942, to attempt to resolve that. There was some serious heel-dragging involved (due to the various previous branches' intelligence services being all butthurt about it...again, foolish), but it ended up working out pretty well.

The OSS provided some pretty valuable services - some real cloak & dagger type stuff. It was one of those unique groups where anything was tried; if you had an idea you spoke up, no matter how crazy it might seem.

And, there were some interesting people involved - Julia Child, of all people, did something with the OSS (I've forgotten exactly what). There wasn't any of this nonsense of "you're a [cook/chef/lawyer/professor/teacher/artist/insert-occupation-here], so you obviously don't know bleep."

It eventually evolved into the CIA. And, as Dave has indicated, a bunch of Special Forces-type stuff originated with it.

Ironically, when the 9/11/01 attacks happened, it was a virtual repeat of the situation prior to 12/7/41 - the NSA knew some stuff, the State Dept. knew some stuff, the CIA knew some stuff, etc., but no one existed to put it all together....

That is one of very few examples in which there's a true repeat of history.

Really interesting stuff.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Kinda like the Battle of New Orleans, which occurred after the end of the War of 1812!

At least they had a legitimate excuse - it took a while for ships to cross the Atlantic back in those days.

On 11/18, there wasn't any excuse. Whoever was responsible for the last deaths of World War I should have been shot himself.

The last man who died in WWI was a Canadian. He was killed at 10:58 a.m. - two bleeping minutes before the Armistice went into effect. I mean, seriously? What kind of behavior is that?

 

[John Baker]

My father fought in world war I. His company was gassed in the trenches, he was the only survivor due to his age, he was only thirteen years old. When they rescued him, he was shot while he was being evacuated, he still survived. He had to take pills the rest of his life to keep the liquids out of his lungs. He was in his early forties when he married my mother, who was twenty. He died when he was fourty five years old.

My aunt told me all of this a few years ago before she died at age ninety.

His oldest brother was a pilot in that same war, he had six kills and assisted in another. He was Capt Lovell Dickens Baker (British.) I just found out about him recently and have been trying to learn more.

My step father fought in WWII, was wounded in the leg. My stepfather would never talk much about the war at all. The only story I remember was when I made a donation to the Red Cross, he flat out hated them.

After they had brought him to the rear to be evacuated, the Red Cross was there SELLING hot coffee and donuts to the wounded soldiers. They had lost his wallet when they treated his wound so he had no money. This was in the winter and all these guys were outside waiting to be trucked out. Only the ones who could pay got anything from the Red Cross. That was the only war story I ever heard from him.

John

 

[JeffDG]

The last man who died in WWI was a Canadian. He was killed at 10:58 a.m. - two bleeping minutes before the Armistice went into effect. I mean, seriously? What kind of behavior is that?

Talk about a pointless death...

 

[Ghery]

This came from the same guy who had sent me the Normandy then-and-now slide show earlier....

A lone young Belgian boy waits to salute Canadian Troops, who were attending a memorial service.
The "Eyes Right" command is usually reserved for dignitaries at reviewing stands. How's this for class? Watch what they do for this little boy.

Class is the word. BZ to the Canadians.

My step father fought in WWII, was wounded in the leg. My stepfather would never talk much about the war at all. The only story I remember was when I made a donation to the Red Cross, he flat out hated them.

After they had brought him to the rear to be evacuated, the Red Cross was there SELLING hot coffee and donuts to the wounded soldiers. They had lost his wallet when they treated his wound so he had no money. This was in the winter and all these guys were outside waiting to be trucked out. Only the ones who could pay got anything from the Red Cross. That was the only war story I ever heard from him.

John

I remember a similar story from a co-worker when I first got out of college. Something about being on a ship that was sunk during WWII and the Red Cross charging for the blankets. He was not a fan, either. Last month when I was running radios in support of a search for a missing aircraft that the Red Cross truck had wording on the side making it clear that they do not charge for their help. Must have been a change in policy somewhere in the past 60 years.

 

[Everskyward]

Bugs me that I can't find poppies down here...

I don't think the significance of the poppies is as well known in the US. We went to the Military Museum in Calgary about a month ago and there were poppies in some of the exhibits. I had to point out the significance to the guy I was with, "you know, the poem, In Flanders Fields". I didn't realize it was written by a Canadian which makes more sense now.

 

[Clark1961]

I don't think the significance of the poppies is as well known in the US. We went to the Military Museum in Calgary about a month ago and there were poppies in some of the exhibits. I had to point out the significance to the guy I was with, "you know, the poem, In Flanders Fields". I didn't realize it was written by a Canadian which makes more sense now.

And now a war is financed by poppies. And it is equally stupid. Perhaps mankind will never learn...

 

[jkgoblue]

That was the best I've seen in a long time. I salute you, young lad! We need more like ya!

 

[woodstock]

Remember reciting this every year as a kid...gotta teach it to my daugher:

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

One of my favorite poems. I will actually be "In Flanders Field" in about two weeks' time...

My top-fave is "If" by Rudyard Kipling, and rounding out the top would be "The Death of the Ball Turrett Gunner" which I read when I was way-young and was in part what got me fascinated with history.

 

[woodstock]

It turns out that, on Dec. 6, 1941, the U.S. had all the information it needed to know that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. The problem was that the State Dept. had some of that information, the Army had some of that information, and the Navy had some of that information. But, due in no small part to foolish (there's that word again) inter-service rivalries, nobody put all of that information together.

So, the OSS was created, I believe in 1942, to attempt to resolve that. There was some serious heel-dragging involved (due to the various previous branches' intelligence services being all butthurt about it...again, foolish), but it ended up working out pretty well.

As I was reading this, I knew exactly where it was going... sigh.