"I'm a pilot." No you are not.

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bigblockz8

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Gore
I have this friend, he claims to be a PP-ASEL with his instrument, working on commercial. I have yet to see any proof. He has stuck to this story for the past two years. When he speaks it is contradictory to his "experience."

First thing I did was check the airman database...nothing! He never came up, not even a SPC. He has a logbook though, but the logbook has ~600hrs. But they are all in a Cessna 206 or 207! They are also from 2005-2008, he would have been 15-18. Claims not to have his certificate in his wallet because there is, "no need."

*- marks a red flag

So I dropped the issue until I remembered it today. We were railfanning and I see a flight of two go by. I remark that the flight of two is from Freeway. He says that you need a waiver to fly formation*. We later see a super low (about 200agl) 152 flying by. He remarks that the airplane just lost it's engine*. The aircraft was on very short final into Tipton Airport and set up for a power off approach.

So we decide, since we have spare time and since it's only 300ft away, let's go to Tipton. At the fence we're watching the ops. This pilot comes up and we all begin to chat. We continue to talk and we get to how the guy almost spun his Lancair IV. My friend asks what that is. The pilot explains that he built it, yada yada. My friend is shocked to learn that you can build your own aircraft*. He remarks that it goes into the high 20's with it. My friend asks how that's possible when the aircraft isn't an airliner and does not have a jet engine*. The owner explains. We tour the cockpit and my friend looks at the nav equipment and says that it's a lot of stuff. He asks what "this" (TCAS) is*.

Now he tells a flying story after the other pilot told one.

My friend's is total BS. "So I take a friend flying in a Cessna 170 and we takeoff from DCA and then ATC tells us to fly to Baltimore. We're over Baltimore and we see the Ravens game. We fly over the stadium and we can see the game! Play by play. We're flying back we tried to do a loop, we came out of it at 500 feet! Then the gear wouldn't go down! I'm flying to land and then the gear came down, I had to pull some G's to get it. We landed and I greased it."

I asked about how bad the vetting procedures are for CGS. He asks what that is. I explain that you need a special PIN to fly in and out. He says that all pilots get the PIN when they get their license. The other guy looked at him like he was stupid.

Story Flaws:
He does not have a tailwheel endorsement
DCA does not allow GA traffic!
Can't fly over a sports TFR!
If you did a loop FAA wants to speak to you, especially about being about 300ft AGL at exit!
Since when did 170's have RG?
You aren't vetted for CGS? You went into the FRZ and did not have permission!?!?!

So with all of this in mind...Would you believe his load of BS? I don't buy it at all. It's annoying because BS is just that, BS. If you're going to BS do some research. Just saying. Maybe I'm a jerk but that's for another thread to decide.
 
A 600 hour log book a pretty elaborate measure to take to try to lie about being a pilot. I'd bet there is some truth in there somewhere. Perhaps the logbook is from one of his parents or someone else that flew. If the first entry is C206, sounds like a logbook out of the middle of someone else's flying career.

Late-night wordy narrative to follow:

I picked up skydiving as a hobby a few years ago. I enjoy it a lot. From my point of view, it doesn't make me any cooler than anyone else, it's just something I really have a lot of fun doing, so I do it. However, I've found, since getting into skydiving, that people outside of the sport have a really inflated view of the type of person that it takes to be a skydiver, and the type of extreme, cool, adventurous life they must have. This leads to a LOT of posers and wannabe's. I would bet that flying probably has the same effect.

It used to really **** me off. Once I listened to a guy go on and on talking to me and a few other semi-strangers about how good of a skydiver he is, telling BS story after BS story—most of them physically impossible, and just feeding off the attention. He didn't know that I had some experience in the sport (since it's not something I feel the need to go around make sure everyone I meet knows). I let him go on for a while, but eventually he said something so stupid I just had to call him out, so I told him that I know a bit out skydiving and that I know he's full of ****. I had hoped that would shut him up, but he denied being a poser and kept talking, so I asked him some very basic questions, like what make/model of canopy he flies, which he couldn't answer, making it blatantly obvious to me and everyone standing there that he was a complete fake. I told him that it was pretty sad that he has to make up a life to tell people so that he sounds interesting. He shut up.

Later on I felt bad about it, because I was exactly right. It's sad. It's sad that his self-image leaves him so dismayed that he has to make up a fake life to tell people about. When I'm passionate about something, like flying or skydiving or military service, I tend to get protective of it, its integrity, and its public image. That's not always a bad thing, but it sometimes blocks me from seeing other things, such as how it wouldn't help the guy, or help anything else, to publicly embarrass him by pointing out that he's a poser.

I've learned, in talking to people about skydiving and flying and other things, that many, many people are completely incapable of visualizing themselves doing something that are interested in doing. They just simply can not believe that it's possible to build a bridge between where they are and where they would like to be. They see something on TV like flying, skydiving, BASE and the say to themselves "Man, that looks fun, it's so awesome that some people get to do that." and that's where their thought process stops. They never have the next logical thought, "how can I get do to that". That's what differentiates people who would like to learn to fly from those that DO learn to fly. All of us, at some point or another, considered it to be possible.

The saddest part about the whole thing is this: there is absolutely nothing about the fake-skydiver-guy that would prevent him from being able to tell REAL skydiving stories, other than the fact that he hasn't Googled a dropzone and showed up to make a skydive.

About your friend: Instead of embarrassing him, privately talk with him, call his bluff in a way that makes it seem no big deal, take him for a ride in a damn airplane, and try to beat it into his head that he doesn't need fake that he's a pilot, he CAN be a pilot.
 
An old and dear friend of mine is also a pathological liar. I've known this since junior high. Funny part is, he has done some pretty cool stuff... he just feels the eed,for whatever reason, to inflate everything much larger than life. I don't try to understand it any more, it's just the way some people are wired I guess.
 
bqmassey said:
A 600 hour log book a pretty elaborate measure to take to try to lie about being a pilot. I'd bet there is some truth in there somewhere. Perhaps the logbook is from one of his parents or someone else that flew. If the first entry is C206, sounds like a logbook out of the middle of someone else's flying career.

Late-night wordy narrative to follow:

I picked up skydiving as a hobby a few years ago. I enjoy it a lot. From my point of view, it doesn't make me any cooler than anyone else, it's just something I really have a lot of fun doing, so I do it. However, I've found, since getting into skydiving, that people outside of the sport have a really inflated view of the type of person that it takes to be a skydiver, and the type of extreme, cool, adventurous life they must have. This leads to a LOT of posers and wannabe's. I would bet that flying probably has the same effect.

It used to really **** me off. Once I listened to a guy go on and on talking to me and a few other semi-strangers about how good of a skydiver he is, telling BS story after BS story—most of them physically impossible, and just feeding off the attention. He didn't know that I had some experience in the sport (since it's not something I feel the need to go around make sure everyone I meet knows). I let him go on for a while, but eventually he said something so stupid I just had to call him out, so I told him that I know a bit out skydiving and that I know he's full of ****. I had hoped that would shut him up, but he denied being a poser and kept talking, so I asked him some very basic questions, like what make/model of canopy he flies, which he couldn't answer, making it blatantly obvious to me and everyone standing there that he was a complete fake. I told him that it was pretty sad that he has to make up a life to tell people so that he sounds interesting. He shut up.

Later on I felt bad about it, because I was exactly right. It's sad. It's sad that his self-image leaves him so dismayed that he has to make up a fake life to tell people about. When I'm passionate about something, like flying or skydiving or military service, I tend to get protective of it, its integrity, and its public image. That's not always a bad thing, but it sometimes blocks me from seeing other things, such as how it wouldn't help the guy, or help anything else, to publicly embarrass him by pointing out that he's a poser.

I've learned, in talking to people about skydiving and flying and other things, that many, many people are completely incapable of visualizing themselves doing something that are interested in doing. They just simply can not believe that it's possible to build a bridge between where they are and where they would like to be. They see something on TV like flying, skydiving, BASE and the say to themselves "Man, that looks fun, it's so awesome that some people get to do that." and that's where their thought process stops. They never have the next logical thought, "how can I get do to that". That's what differentiates people who would like to learn to fly from those that DO learn to fly. All of us, at some point or another, considered it to be possible.

The saddest part about the whole thing is this: there is absolutely nothing about the fake-skydiver-guy that would prevent him from being able to tell REAL skydiving stories, other than the fact that he hasn't Googled a dropzone and showed up to make a skydive.

About your friend: Instead of embarrassing him, privately talk with him, call his bluff in a way that makes it seem no big deal, take him for a ride in a damn airplane, and try to beat it into his head that he doesn't need fake that he's a pilot, he CAN be a pilot.
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I wish you had ended that story with 'you felt bad for the guy and went back and offered to take home sky diving". I was waiting for it and it never came.

I get it though, I'm not sure I would have handled it so well myself.
 
His actions are producing the desired result - people are interested (good and bad, including yourself). Remove the desired result.
 
It's neither your job to enable him to fake reality, nor your responsibility to fix reality for him.

Unless his fantasy causes some risk to your reality, stay out of it.

Mind you - putting GA in a bad light overall is, IMO, a risk to our reality. ;)
 
Rarely is anybody a complete nutter, or a complete anything... everyone has good and not-so-good qualities.

Unless the not-so-good qualities are affecting you personally, or pose some sort of criminal/safety issue, I think it's best to enjoy the good stuff and accept the not-so-good stuff if you can. It's highly unlikely that a person will change in response to external pressure.

There's a little Walter Mitty in most folks. I did a whole bunch of different stuff early in life (music, coast guard, DEA, motorcycles, emergency medicine...) before I settled down to being an IT geek-of-all-trades and Aviation. They are the things for which I have both a passion and some ability. I'm happy that I can enjoy them. I know folks who are passionate about stuff for which they lack ability and they're highly frustrated.
 
My best friend is a bit of an obsessive BS'er. My Dad was too. Doesn't make them terrible folks or mean that you can't have a relationship with them. My friend is a good husband, a good father, a good friend. I just tune out when he starts up. Many years ago, his wife kinda confessed that she did too though I think she has matured in the relationship and now just picks out the bits she agrees with and goes from there.
 
Fakers, fakers, everywhere. In my professional life, In my personal life, I have met many. In some cases it took 10-20 years to discover that some one that I respected was a major faker. At this point in life, I don't trust anything that I here from anybody until I can verify it.

If I suspect some one, I will ask questions that I already know the answer to and see what they say. Most people will give me the right answer or they will say they don't know the answer, thats fine, but some people fake their whole way through a conversation.

I actually had a guy come up to me at the airport, while I was puting the plane away, and he started to tell me the right way to fly my Skyhawk, I started listening to him and he started to say things that were from another planet. As soon as I fiquired he was full of crap, I told him so. He still continued with his rant. Oh did I say he had his girl friend with him.
 
Wasn't there a guy on here who claimed to be some sort of big-time ex-military, but got chased off by the real military?
 
Garthur said:
If I suspect some one, I will ask questions that I already know the answer to and see what they say. Most people will give me the right answer or they will say they don't know the answer, thats fine, but some people fake their whole way through a conversation.
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One of the traits of being a good investigator is to know the answer to the question before you ask it. :thumbsup:
 
After I retired I started working summers at an aquatic center. I became a lifeguard at 59, and am a lifeguard supervisor and instructor now. I swear that I must be the only person who was not a lifeguard in high school. Everyone I tell that I am a lifeguard wants to start telling me about their exploits as a lifeguard in high school. Because I am obviously the oldest lifeguard that anyone has seen, older people just come up to me at the pool and start regaling me about their lifeguard days when they were younger. I can tell you though, that anyone who has ever been a lifeguard can spot a poser pretty fast. I mean, some of these people have had more saves than we have in an entire season at the aquatic center. My best friend claims to have been a lifeguard when he was in high school and the pool he worked at must have been littered with bodies at the bottom of the deep end if he is to be believed. Anyway, it doesn't bother me at all if someone wants to pretend they were something. I think a lot of people do that. Whatever.
 
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Maxmosbey said:
After I retired I started working summers at an aquatic center. I became a lifeguard at 59, and am a lifeguard supervisor and instructor now. I swear that I must be the only person who was not a lifeguard in high school. Everyone I tell that I am a lifeguard wants to start telling me about their exploits as a lifeguard in high school. Because I am obviously the oldest lifeguard that anyone has seen, older people just come up to me at the pool and start regaling me about their lifeguard days when they were younger. I can tell you though, that anyone who has ever been a lifeguard can spot a poser pretty fast. I mean, some of these people have had more saves than we have in an entire season at the aquatic center. My best friend claims to have been a lifeguard when he was in high school and the pool he worked at must have been littered with bodies at the bottom of the deep end if he is to be believed. Anyway, it doesn't bother me at all if someone wants to pretend they were something. I think a lot of people do that. Whatever.
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I was a volunteer firefighter for three years, and an EMT/Paramedic for ten. It's pretty easy to spot a poser, there, as well. And since I worked closely with police, it's not hard for me to spot a poser there, either.
 
steingar said:
Wasn't there a guy on here who claimed to be some sort of big-time ex-military, but got chased off by the real military?
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Cowboy Pilot. That is why the term is now an insult.
 
Kinda sad in a way...and funny in another way. I can imagine the whimsical amusement that guy supplied as he examined the cockpit of the Lancair. I will bet he begins to profess Lancair IV time to some pretty soon.

Which reminds me.....I was doing supersonic outside loops in my HH-52 once..... but no, don't want to start thread drift. :nono:
 
bigblockz8 said:
snip

So with all of this in mind...Would you believe his load of BS? I don't buy it at all. It's annoying because BS is just that, BS. If you're going to BS do some research. Just saying. Maybe I'm a jerk but that's for another thread to decide.
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Believe it? Um, no. Do you even have to ask? :D

I have met folks that do that sort of crap knowingly 'cause they think it is funny.

It is up to you to decide when a friend is not worth the effort. Tough love, baby. Maybe if you stopped hanging with him over this, it would end. Personally, I would not go out in public with him.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Kinda sad in a way...and funny in another way. I can imagine the whimsical amusement that guy supplied as he examined the cockpit of the Lancair. I will bet he begins to profess Lancair IV time to some pretty soon.

Which reminds me.....I was doing supersonic outside loops in my HH-52 once..... but no, don't want to start thread drift. :nono:
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One time the door fell off our HH-65. Oh, wait, that IS a true story!

Was the -52 a single engine amphib? I only got familiar with the HH-3 (still had them at Cape Cod in the late 80s) and the HH-65... I was getting out as the HH-60s were coming in.
 
TMetzinger said:
One time the door fell off our HH-65. Oh, wait, that IS a true story!

Was the -52 a single engine amphib? I only got familiar with the HH-3 (still had them at Cape Cod in the late 80s) and the HH-65... I was getting out as the HH-60s were coming in.
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Yes. They had a single GE T58-GE-8 derated from 1200hp to 750. Not a exceptionally fast hunk of iron, but they would go slow through almost anything.
When I started flying the Pelican I felt like Superman!!!!
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Yes. They had a single GE T58-GE-8 derated from 1200hp to 750. Not a exceptionally fast hunk of iron, but they would go slow through almost anything.
When I started flying the Pelican I felt like Superman!!!!
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I remembered a static display of the -52 then at Cape Cod, when you'd cross the line from the AF base to the CGAS.

At the time they had the -3's, -65's, the HU-25's, and the C-130s.
 
Remember the rule of improv, it works as long as you never contradict the other person and keep it moving forward. Don't out em, join em. Drop enough to show you are real then kick it up a few notches with your new adventure buddy. Besides if you are talking to chicks the more lavish and awesome the better, if they are even slightly interested their BS detector gets shut off. Move the story forward, out to space if need be, and have fun.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Remember the rule of improv, it works as long as you never contradict the other person and keep it moving forward. Don't out em, join em. Drop enough to show you are real then kick it up a few notches with your new adventure buddy. Besides if you are talking to chicks the more lavish and awesome the better, if they are even slightly interested their BS detector gets shut off. Move the story forward, out to space if need be, and have fun.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Remember the rule of improv, it works as long as you never contradict the other person and keep it moving forward. Don't out em, join em. Drop enough to show you are real then kick it up a few notches with your new adventure buddy. Besides if you are talking to chicks the more lavish and awesome the better, if they are even slightly interested their BS detector gets shut off. Move the story forward, out to space if need be, and have fun.
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So there we were flying our first volunteer drug interdiction mission on the U.S. Mexico border. We'd intercepted this 210, who tried to escape by doing a 4G pushover, we kept him insite by going inverted in the RV and flying canopy to canopy. While we were trying to ID the pilot it occurred to us that we had no way to bring this guy down because the TSA hadn't fitted the RV with rocket pods yet, some government SNAFU thing. Any hoo, so Charlie says, "you know I brought my 9mm......"
 
Not realated, but this reminds me of a story...

A friend of mine (through my brother) has a very successful father. He has a new 64' Viking Enclosed Bridge (bad ass sportfisher). Dad lets his son, my brother and friends take his boat to Annapolis for the evening, and they got a spot near ego alley which is to say rockstar boat parking downtown, with lots of bars/restaurants around.

So they are bar hopping and having a good time, their drunk irish friend mickey is talking to some girls, the guys think it would be funny to let them think mickey owns the boat, so mickey invites the girls back to 'his' yacht. They tell him is full of it, "you don't own a yacht" and basically blow him off in front of everyone.

An hour or so later they are back on the boat, mickey happens to be standing on the aft deck of the flybridge, beer in hand when these girls from the bar are walking home. He yells "See, I told you ******* I own a yacht!"
 
You're not gonna be able to change this guy. If it bugs you as much as it seems too,
cut him totally out of your life (if possible).
 
Some dedicated MSFS pilots are much more capable, qualified, experienced, and proficient than the typical G.A. pilot. If you don't believe me, just ask them.
 
wsuffa said:
Was that 600 hours in MSFS?
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Possibly. I also wonder if the logbook was bought on eBay or found somewhere. No relatives in aviation and he did work on the line at Signature Aviation's FBO and then got fired for stealing cookie dough of all things, and at that, Otis Spunkmeyer! You steal once you steal again.
 
A friend of a friend was like this. I showed up on my motorcycle and he went on and on about all the riding he's done. I knew he was full of it, so I asked him where the clutch lever is. He quickly changed the subject.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Some dedicated MSFS pilots are much more capable, qualified, experienced, and proficient than the typical G.A. pilot. If you don't believe me, just ask them.
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Very true!

However, it may be a case of purely sim vs. real world skill but, when he and I flew on FSX he was not in control at all. He had just downloaded a new aircraft and he could not land it or even go around the pattern. My turn, I greased it, did not even see the touchdown. I can't grease a landing in real life though. I omitted this event to give him the benefit of the doubt. Which I doubt that he has ever even soloed but still.
 
dell30rb said:
Not realated, but this reminds me of a story...

A friend of mine (through my brother) has a very successful father. He has a new 64' Viking Enclosed Bridge (bad ass sportfisher). Dad lets his son, my brother and friends take his boat to Annapolis for the evening, and they got a spot near ego alley which is to say rockstar boat parking downtown, with lots of bars/restaurants around.

So they are bar hopping and having a good time, their drunk irish friend mickey is talking to some girls, the guys think it would be funny to let them think mickey owns the boat, so mickey invites the girls back to 'his' yacht. They tell him is full of it, "you don't own a yacht" and basically blow him off in front of everyone.

An hour or so later they are back on the boat, mickey happens to be standing on the aft deck of the flybridge, beer in hand when these girls from the bar are walking home. He yells "See, I told you ******* I own a yacht!"
Click to expand...

That's a GREAT story and under those circumstances is not that bad. Very funny anecdote. That's something that should be in a Family Guy episode or something. Just one of those moments.
 
My ex wife was a pathological lier. It took me MANY years to discover this. The ultimate undoing came when I bragged to a co worker that she had been on the fencing team in college. He and his wife were invited over one evening and he brought his fencing foils. My ex didn't know which end of the thing to grasp.
Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
 
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bigblockz8 said:
Possibly. I also wonder if the logbook was bought on eBay or found somewhere. No relatives in aviation and he did work on the line at Signature Aviation's FBO and then got fired for stealing cookie dough of all things, and at that, Otis Spunkmeyer! You steal once you steal again.
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Some poor sap is probably missing his logbook. I'd try to get my hands on it and examine it closely, see if you can't figure out who it belongs to.
 
Like check out an instructor name, id, and date. (2008?) He might be able to tell you who he rode with.
 
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