IFR Test Question has me baffled

[labbadabba]

Figure(s): FAA IFR Figure 92 Minimum in Flight Visibility Distance from Clouds
(Refer to Figure 92.) What in-flight visibility and distance from clouds is required for a flight at 8,500 feet MSL (above 1,200 feet AGL) in Class G airspace in VFR conditions during daylight hours in area 4?
A. 5 miles; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 1 mile; (H) 1,000 feet.
B. 3 miles; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 2,000 feet; (H) 500 feet.
C. 1 mile; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 2,000 feet; (H) 500 feet.

How in the world can there be Class G airspace at 8,500 feet if you're already above 1,200 AGL??

 

[Clark1961]

It's going away but I think there is some around. It used to be common out here in the west.

 

[alfadog]

Er, we can't see that image. Take a screenshot and post it.

 

[labbadabba]

Er, we can't see that image. Take a screenshot and post it.

 

[labbadabba]

Oh, jeez, that's massive, sorry....

 

[labbadabba]

It's going away but I think there is some around. It used to be common out here in the west.

How, every airspace chart I've seen shows Class G topping out at 1,200 AGL max. So regardless of ground elevation, if you're over 1,200 AGL you should no longer be in Class G...

 

[RussR]

What kind of airspace is directly north and south of Luce Co (ERY) at 8500 MSL in the UP of Michigan (inside the blue shading)?

https://skyvector.com/?ll=46.31098776855251,-85.45715331444276&chart=301&zoom=3&fpl=undefined

 

[Clark1961]

How, every airspace chart I've seen shows Class G topping out at 1,200 AGL max. So regardless of ground elevation, if you're over 1,200 AGL you should no longer be in Class G...

Blue zipper lines...and

Blue fade line

 

[write-stuff]

Class G can go up to 14,500 MSL under the right circumstances.

 

[labbadabba]

What kind of airspace is directly north and south of Luce Co (ERY) at 8500 MSL in the UP of Michigan (inside the blue shading)?

https://skyvector.com/?ll=46.31098776855251,-85.45715331444276&chart=301&zoom=3&fpl=undefined

Oy. So I guess 1 mile; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 2,000 feet; (H) 500 feet is the answer. Class G daylight, that's the easy part. Problem is all the graphic examples in the FAA books that show a profile view of the airspace show Class G topping out at 1,200 ft AGL, so that's what stuck in my head of course...

Thanks,

 

[RussR]

They are no longer common, and are dwindling fast. Up until just about 2 years ago, it was easy to find these areas west of the ND-TX line. Especially in Colorado, Idaho, those kind of states. Now they're almost all gone.

 

[write-stuff]

Actually, virtually every one of their airspace charts shows 14,500.

 

[Clark1961]

Oh, jeez, that's massive, sorry....

That's not what she said...

 

[labbadabba]

Actually, virtually every one of their airspace charts shows 14,500.

Well, crap...

 

[alfadog]

Isn't it B?

 

[eetrojan]

How, every airspace chart I've seen shows Class G topping out at 1,200 AGL max. So regardless of ground elevation, if you're over 1,200 AGL you should no longer be in Class G...

Here's a real life example [that USED to exist] in California:

 

[labbadabba]

Isn't it B?

Those would be Class E mins at 8,500 ft.

 

[BillTIZ]

Figure(s): FAA IFR Figure 92 Minimum in Flight Visibility Distance from Clouds
(Refer to Figure 92.) What in-flight visibility and distance from clouds is required for a flight at 8,500 feet MSL (above 1,200 feet AGL) in Class G airspace in VFR conditions during daylight hours in area 4?
A. 5 miles; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 1 mile; (H) 1,000 feet.
B. 3 miles; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 2,000 feet; (H) 500 feet.
C. 1 mile; (E) 1,000 feet; (G) 2,000 feet; (H) 500 feet.

How in the world can there be Class G airspace at 8,500 feet if you're already above 1,200 AGL??

There are a lot of areas around here where there is Class G to 14,500 MSL.

 

[BillTIZ]

What kind of airspace is directly north and south of Luce Co (ERY) at 8500 MSL in the UP of Michigan (inside the blue shading)?

https://skyvector.com/?ll=46.31098776855251,-85.45715331444276&chart=301&zoom=3&fpl=undefined

Class G to 14,500MSL , Class E above to 17.999, then Class A to FL600 then Class G above that.

 

[MAKG1]

Class G to 14,500MSL , Class E above to 17.999, then Class A to FL600 then Class G above that.

Not quite. It's class E above FL600. See 14CFR 71.71.

 

[RussR]

Here's a real life example in California:

Please note that that WAS a real-life example, but is not any more.

 

[eetrojan]

Please note that that WAS a real-life example, but is not any more.

Wow, that changed fast. Thanks.

I made that diagram less than a couple of years ago after looking for some Class E that was designated as starting at 14,500 MSL rather than 1,200 AGL.

 

[JimNtexas]

Here's a real life example [that USED to exist] in California:

Thanks for that! I'm studying for my CFI, and that image is going into my lesson plan!

 

[Hank S]

So why does the IFR test ask about VFR cloud clearances? Sure, you need VFR conditions to land from many non-precision approaches, but still . . . Airspace questions like this always seem written to trip up the test taker rather than demonstrate knowledge of the regulations. Focusing on exceptions and minutia, someone has been desperate to justify his federal job by rewriting questions.

 

[MauleSkinner]

So why does the IFR test ask about VFR cloud clearances? Sure, you need VFR conditions to land from many non-precision approaches, but still . . . Airspace questions like this always seem written to trip up the test taker rather than demonstrate knowledge of the regulations. Focusing on exceptions and minutia, someone has been desperate to justify his federal job by rewriting questions.

In my experience, far too many IFR pilots don't realize where VFR airplanes can show up in "their" airspace.

Granted, very few instrument rated pilots are knowledgable about what they themselves have to do to be IFR in this chunk of Class G at 8500 feet, but that's another issue entirely.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

So why does the IFR test ask about VFR cloud clearances?

When are you required to be IFR?

Sure, you need VFR conditions to land from many non-precision approaches, but still . . . Airspace questions like this always seem written to trip up the test taker rather than demonstrate knowledge of the regulations. Focusing on exceptions and minutia, someone has been desperate to justify his federal job by rewriting questions.

That too.

 

[flyingron]

In my experience, far too many IFR pilots don't realize where VFR airplanes can show up in "their" airspace.

Yeah, but I'm not sure the cloud clearance requirements help much with that. The truth of the matter is once you exit a cloud you need to be looking out the window. Waiting until you are 500' below to start looking is a great way to hit another aircraft.

 

[gismo]

So why does the IFR test ask about VFR cloud clearances? Sure, you need VFR conditions to land from many non-precision approaches, but still . . . Airspace questions like this always seem written to trip up the test taker rather than demonstrate knowledge of the regulations. Focusing on exceptions and minutia, someone has been desperate to justify his federal job by rewriting questions.

VFR On Top (an IFR clearance) requires you to maintain the same separation from clouds as "ordinary" VFR flight.

 

[exncsurfer]

dumb question from student pilot:

What are all the magenta circles around airports actually buying us? Bringing class E down to 700ft around the airport. If 2 way radios still aren't required for VFR, and radar may not be available in the given area.

Those magenta and blue shadings were hurting my head, I think I get what they're doing now, just not sure why.

 

[eetrojan]

dumb question from student pilot:

What are all the magenta circles around airports actually buying us? Bringing class E down to 700ft around the airport. If 2 way radios still aren't required for VFR, and radar may not be available in the given area.

Those magenta and blue shadings were hurting my head, I think I get what they're doing now, just not sure why.

Hey exNCsurfer, As I understand it, the soft side of the magenta vignettes lowers the Class E floor from 1200 feet to 700 feet to define a transition area for IFR arrivals to the included airport(s). The dashed magenta lines take the Class E floor even lower, all the way down to the surface.

As to the “why,” I believe it’s to help protect the IFR pilots from having unexpectedly close encounters with us VFR pilots when they’re breaking out of the clouds on an approach, i.e. by imposing the more stringent Class E numbers (3-152) rather than the liberal Class G numbers (1-COC), then we VFR pilots are only present within that area in better visibility and we stay farther away from any clouds.

In essence, more visibility and distance for everybody to see and avoid when one of the two parties is emerging from the haze or literally popping out of a cloud.

 

[flyingron]

dumb question from student pilot:

What are all the magenta circles around airports actually buying us? Bringing class E down to 700ft around the airport. If 2 way radios still aren't required for VFR, and radar may not be available in the given area.

Those magenta and blue shadings were hurting my head, I think I get what they're doing now, just not sure why.

It jacks up the visibility and cloud clearance requirements to supposedly give the IFR traffic more time/ability to spot the random VFR guy.

 

[masloki]

dumb question from student pilot:

What are all the magenta circles around airports actually buying us? Bringing class E down to 700ft around the airport. If 2 way radios still aren't required for VFR, and radar may not be available in the given area.

Those magenta and blue shadings were hurting my head, I think I get what they're doing now, just not sure why.

Also adds SVFR to your bag of tricks.

 

[rjsmith47]

Airspace not designated as controlled airspace (class G) extends to 14,500 MSL. The vis/clearance rules change at 1200 AGL and 10,000 MSL.