IFR Question

[aviationluver]

Got into a small dispute with another pilot about the following IFR scenario.

You're flying an arrival and the controller clears you to cross XYZ intersection at 13,000 feet and 250 KIAS.

You begin your descent and a few minutes prior to reaching XYZ, the controller says descend and maintain 10,000 feet.

Since you received a new clearance, you are no longer required to cross XYZ at 250 KIAS and 13,000 feet.

Am I correct? What are your thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[paflyer]

Got into a small dispute with another pilot about the following IFR scenario.

You're flying an arrival and the controller clears you to cross XYZ intersection at 13,000 feet and 250 KIAS.

You begin your descent and a few minutes prior to reaching XYZ, the controller says descend and maintain 10,000 feet.

Since you received a new clearance, you are no longer required to cross XYZ at 250 KIAS and 13,000 feet.

Am I correct? What are your thoughts.

Thanks.

The only amendment to the clearance was the crossing altitude, speed remains the same.

 

[Captain]

Any new altitude assignment cancels any and all previous assignments. If they want you to comply with a previous restriction they have to include it in the new clearance.

With that said, you should check on with a new controller with any crossing restrictions previously assigned.


Also, there is an IFR dedicated section of the forum called "Cleared for the Approach" two down that is designed for these types of questions. Just pointing it out if you didn't know...

 

[Captain]

The only amendment to the clearance was the crossing altitude, speed remains the same.

I think you missed the question...

 

[midlifeflyer]

Got into a small dispute with another pilot about the following IFR scenario.

You're flying an arrival and the controller clears you to cross XYZ intersection at 13,000 feet and 250 KIAS.

You begin your descent and a few minutes prior to reaching XYZ, the controller says descend and maintain 10,000 feet.

Since you received a new clearance, you are no longer required to cross XYZ at 250 KIAS and 13,000 feet.

Am I correct? What are your thoughts.

Thanks.

You are correct.

 

[Dead Stick]

Got into a small dispute with another pilot about the following IFR scenario.

You're flying an arrival and the controller clears you to cross XYZ intersection at 13,000 feet and 250 KIAS.

You begin your descent and a few minutes prior to reaching XYZ, the controller says descend and maintain 10,000 feet.

Since you received a new clearance, you are no longer required to cross XYZ at 250 KIAS and 13,000 feet.

Am I correct? What are your thoughts.

Thanks.

These types of clearances are actually quite common and it something that we frequently run into. The revised clearance "should" cancel both the initial altitude and speed restrictions. However... experience has taught me that's it's probably wise to query the controller regarding the speed. It's been my experience that many times they'll still want the speed. As always, the take away is if you're ever confused regarding a clearance all you have to do is ask.

 

[Captain]

Btw, speed assignments are different...they hold through various altitude assignments. Just ask the controller if you are still speed restricted. Of all the things ATC can forget, old speed assignments seem the most likely to be forgotten.

 

[James331]

The only amendment to the clearance was the crossing altitude, speed remains the same.

I would go with that to be safe, and just say down to 10k at 250kts, to verify.

 

[paflyer]

Btw, speed assignments are different...they hold through various altitude assignments. Just ask the controller if you are still speed restricted. Of all the things ATC can forget, old speed assignments seem the most likely to be forgotten.

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Captain]

Isn't that what I said?

No, you said the new altitude applied to the crossing restriction. It doesn't. If you have a crossing restriction and are then given a new altitude then the crossing restriction is lifted, not amended.

Speed is a separate issue and on that alone you are correct, it remains the same.

 

[rbridges]

when I get a plane that I routinely fly over 13k feet and faster than 250 knots, I'll get back with you.