IFR Clearance Question

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GarmAspen

Filing Flight Plan
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GarmAspen
With new technology, comes new challenges... I filed two IFR flight plans for a trip over the weekend. I filed these using Garmin Pilot, one for my departure airport and one for the return flight from the destination airport.

If ATC proposes a change, Garmin Pilot sends back a ATC Proposed routing back that you can accept. I did accept this for the departure airport but did not see one for the return flight (probably because the flight was scheduled for later in the day). My iPad is also without cellular service, so I could not pick up any additional updates.


On my return flight, I called to pick up my clearance in the air and was given a "cleared as file" clearance. The flight went uneventful but when I got home I noticed that my FlightAware filed route was different than the route I flew (I had picked a different intersection to intercept the airway). I also saw a message from Garmin for the ATC proposed route that matched FlightAware.


Did I fly the wrong clearance? Or since I never accepted the proposal mean my original filed route was issued?
 
Sounds like perhaps the route clearance you think you had is not the one ATC thinks they gave you. And if you got through with no comments from ATC, then it may not have been that noticeable.

Perhaps a NASA form should be filed to identify the software and potential glitch.
 
You were cleared "as filed." It's up to you to remember what you filed, not what some unofficial software package predicted that you would receive.

In the future, write down what you file. It's not a ptoblem for me, as I file /G direct as often as possible, i.e., every time until I moved near Atlanta. Now I know the two intersections to pass around the Bravo, since ATC rarely clears me inside unless my destination in there. CINKA to the southeast, HEFIN to the west, then direct destination, is either what I receive on the phone, initial call or "when ready to copy."
 
They assumed you where flying the route you filed. Second that on writing down your route or having it stored on the IPad.
 
I've had it come back with something different and then when I call up I get cleared as filed. I think what comes back in foreflight is whatever the computer spits out...the controller can change this though at his/her discretion. FWIW you can also amend your route to whatever comes back, and then most of the time you should get cleared as filed rather than having to copy and read back.
 
Hank S said:
You were cleared "as filed." It's up to you to remember what you filed, not what some unofficial software package predicted that you would receive.

In the future, write down what you file. It's not a ptoblem for me, as I file /G direct as often as possible, i.e., every time until I moved near Atlanta. Now I know the two intersections to pass around the Bravo, since ATC rarely clears me inside unless my destination in there. CINKA to the southeast, HEFIN to the west, then direct destination, is either what I receive on the phone, initial call or "when ready to copy."
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Seriously? I know what I filed. It was sitting in front of me on my iPad when I made the air call to get the clearance. They came with "cleared as filed".


There was no comment from the initial controller who gave me the "as filed" clearance nor any other controller along the route. I only became aware of the discrepancy when I looked at FlightAware and Garmin Pilot that showed an ATC Proposed route that I did not get because my iPad is not cellular.
 
gms5002 said:
I've had it come back with something different and then when I call up I get cleared as filed. I think what comes back in foreflight is whatever the computer spits out...the controller can change this though at his/her discretion. FWIW you can also amend your route to whatever comes back, and then most of the time you should get cleared as filed rather than having to copy and read back.
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I think you're right. I think it is a proposal from ATC that gets spit out by some computer. When I accepted the ATC Proposed on the way out, the actual clearance I picked up on the ground was different than the proposed they sent me. In fact, it didn't look like anything close to what I filed or what they proposed.


It was just a little disturbing to see my FlightAware route showing the proposed route and my track showing what I flew based on what I filed.


Again, no one said anything.


One thing that did stick out was the altitude I filed was 9,000 and I initially got this, but 20 minutes into the flight I was cleared to 7,000 -- the same altitude as the proposed altitude. It was just a strange flight...
 
If it is anything like Foreflight...what you filed and what is in the system is what you initially filed. Foreflight shoots back an "expected route" but that does not at all amend what you filed...just lets me know what ATC is likely to come back with when I get my clearance. I would assume that the Garmin "Proposed" route would work the same.

Does "accepting" the proposal actually change what you filed with Garmin Pilot?
 
Shawn said:
If it is anything like Foreflight...what you filed and what is in the system is what you initially filed. Foreflight shoots back an "expected route" but that does not at all amend what you filed...just lets me know what ATC is likely to come back with when I get my clearance. I would assume that the Garmin "Proposed" route would work the same.

Does "accepting" the proposal actually change what you filed with Garmin Pilot?
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Good question Shawn. I have been using Pilot before the "proposed" stuff showed up in the app. I will need to read the section on it again, but I think it will change what you have on the iPad to match what ATC proposes but won't change what you filed (at least I hope it works this way). I can't remember a time what I filed wasn't changed a bit.
 
Shawn, I just read the Pilot manual. It doesn't mention changing what you filed, only as you suggest, your flight plan in the app.

I have always accepted the proposal but always expected the actual route provided to be different. It was just strange to hear "as filed" considering the airspace I fly out of.
 
If they say as filed it is just that. If you receive ATC Expected Route via Foreflight/Pilot - they will give you that route when you pick up.

So even if you get an expected route - and it's different, if they say As Filed - it's as you initially filed it...

I typically fly to KISM out of KHEG the IFR clearance is almost always HEG-OCF-CERMO-KISM so I just file it.

One time I filed it differently and of course the ATC expected route was above. When I called in they said As Filed - I wasn't sure - like you so I asked and they said the route I initially filed...
 
GarmAspen said:
Seriously? I know what I filed. It was sitting in front of me on my iPad when I made the air call to get the clearance. They came with "cleared as filed".
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Then you were cleared as filed.

There was no comment from the initial controller who gave me the "as filed" clearance nor any other controller along the route. I only became aware of the discrepancy when I looked at FlightAware and Garmin Pilot that showed an ATC Proposed route that I did not get because my iPad is not cellular.
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There is no discrepancy. If the "proposed route" you get back from Garmin Pilot is not what you filed, but you are cleared "as filed", then you fly the route you filed, not the route Garmin Pilot said to expect.

IOW, you did exactly what you were supposed to do, and there's no need for any reports or other consternation.
 
EminiTrader said:
If they say as filed it is just that. If you receive ATC Expected Route via Foreflight/Pilot - they will give you that route when you pick up.

So even if you get an expected route - and it's different, if they say As Filed - it's as you initially filed it...

I typically fly to KISM out of KHEG the IFR clearance is almost always HEG-OCF-CERMO-KISM so I just file it.

One time I filed it differently and of course the ATC expected route was above. When I called in they said As Filed - I wasn't sure - like you so I asked and they said the route I initially filed...
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Ron Levy said:
Then you were cleared as filed.

There is no discrepancy. If the "proposed route" you get back from Garmin Pilot is not what you filed, but you are cleared "as filed", then you fly the route you filed, not the route Garmin Pilot said to expect.

IOW, you did exactly what you were supposed to do, and there's no need for any reports or other consternation.
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Thanks for the confirmation of this. What was troubling was the FlightAware record of the flight. It showed the proposed route, not the filed route. Hence, the reason for my questions and concern.


Dang new technology!
 
GarmAspen said:
Thanks for the confirmation of this. What was troubling was the FlightAware record of the flight. It showed the proposed route, not the filed route. Hence, the reason for my questions and concern.


Dang new technology!
Click to expand...
Flightaware has the same type of "expected routing" information as Garmin Pilot. That's what it was using, not your ultimate real clearance.
 
The route that comes out of FlightAware, which is the same route ForeFlight gets (and presumably Garmin Pilot), is the route that the ATC ERAM system generated for the flight. If the controller told you "as filed" and it differs from that generated route, then he is basically overruling the computer and telling you that he is clearing you for the route you originally filed. The controller is always the final authority on a clearance.
 
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And note that sometimes the proposed route is just not going to be issued. I filed what I thought was a perfectly valid route V3 from the Boston area down to MRB. I got that echoed back as the proposed route. I call ground at OWD and the controller looks at the strip and says "Yeah, that's not going to work... got a pencil?" I then got what I really expected to get (a bunch of fixes down to Long Island Sound, down the middle of sound, over the top of JFK and then V16, where it's a good thing people complement me on the accuracy of my instruments).

Of course my favorite was the one from my first IFR XC in my training. I did my best to file a reasonable route. PCT came back with a completely different route (but we were still on the ground so I plug that in). As soon as I get in the air and radar contact I get "I have a new route for you, advise when ready to copy." After writing it down I say, "Hey, this is what I filed."

Basic rules of IFR flight:

1. File for what you want.
2. Fly what you get.
3. Log what you need.
 
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