I ran the numbers

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Morgan3820, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

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    Would you be willing to sell the plane to take early retirement from a job that you hate? I would have a small pension, medical coverage and no debt. Too young to pull from my 403b. I would still have to get another income source, but my needs would be much less.
     
  2. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'd line up another income source before taking early retirement from the job you hate. Don't sell your plane; hang in there until you line up something doing work you're good at and enjoy (hopefully with coworkers you actually like).
     
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  3. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    If you got a "retirement job" that would be lower income but fun, and keep you working past normal retirement, would you truly have to sell the plane? Or maybe would a plane downgrade or switch to something that costs less to own/operate make sense?

    My answer is that if you hate your job and there's a retirement job that you could get that's more fun, and you've got a good savings/pension/something, then do that. The ride matters - you never know when it's going to end.
     
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  4. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Perhaps you could become a CFI; the pay is merely OK, the hours may suck, but someone else would be paying for your flying. That is, at present, my plan. I sold my airplane to buy a house; looking back, I could have probably kept it, but the prices have skyrocketed since then.
     
  5. Weekend Warrior

    Weekend Warrior Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I can officially say "No" because I'm in the same situation, and I'm currently saying "no".
     
  6. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If it's not too long to retirement, I'd just gut it out.
     
  7. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route PoA Supporter

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  8. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    You money would last far longer south of the border...
     
  9. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Unless you get shanked and left in a ditch like someone who's older, doesn't speak the language fluently, doesn't understand the culture, and hasn't spent a lot of time in other countries might have happen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  10. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    ^This

    Find a new job, retire from the current one. Keep on keeping on.
     
  11. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    You watch too much television. I've traveled extensively in Central America, have relatives living in Guatemala.
     
  12. alfadog

    alfadog Final Approach

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    I took early retirement in 2012 from my career as a civil engineer. I didn't hate it, I was just bored and wanted to do airplane stuff. I didn't have any money and when my airplane broke I couldn't pay to fix it. So I went to A&P school.

    If I were in your position and could retire and live comfortably I would sell the airplane. Yes. There are plenty of airplanes out there and plenty of income sources and you'll figure it all out. And you'll do it doing something you'd like to do and not something that you dread.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    And you don't even attempt to comprehend. Your final two statements provide you understanding of the culture and language, the lack of which I specifically pointed out as some of the things that increase the risks. If you think the average American shmuck that never moved out of their home state can move down to South America without knowing the language or culture and not risk serious things happening, then your head is in the sand. Even moving to America could be dangerous if the things I noted apply to you.
     
  14. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Sure, if you move with zero preparation and zero attempt to understand what you’re going into that’s possible. I’ve known a good number of people who’ve moved south of the border and precisely none of them have done it that way.

    I’m with Michael on this one.
     
  15. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    I guess it depends on what kinda airplane we're talking about here. I can't see the chump change I spend yearly on the Arrow being any kind of inflection point to afford me a beyond-subsistence retirement. 15K/yr (my current yearly all in cost for the hobby minus lodging and food, hell it's actually sub 10K these days due to less family travel as years past) doesn't get me to the corner around here, let alone looking at a 60% replacement rate retirement as a desired target. Now 40-50K/yr, that would be a line item worth chucking for the sake of early retirement. But that's Piper Mirage opex/mxex.
     
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  16. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

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    I like to visit other places but, I am an American. Born here, die here.
     
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  17. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Should you? I dunno - too many factors to think about. Should you consider it? Certainly.

    I’ll be the contrarian: I sold my plane because I wasn’t flying it enough and it was a minimum of 45 minutes each way to punch holes in the sky. I used to fly it some on business, but that dried up. I live in the DC metro - it was $1,000 a month before I even turned the key. If there were repairs or capital improvements, even more.

    Selling it has given me a level of financial freedom that I didn’t have before (I owned it free and clear, so no loan). I do some consulting work now and a lot of volunteer mentoring.... all fulfilling. Not havin 12k a year in after tax expense helps a whole bunch In terms of not worrying. Not old enough for Medicare, so the health insurance eats up a fair amount of the savings, but it offers some freedom.

    A lot of folks sell their houses and move to condos or apartments. Recovers capital and cuts costs. Selling a plane does exactly the same. You can still rent or join a club. And you won’t have to worry about selling if you have a medical issue, if 100LL goes away, or the political winds change resulting in more pain to GA.

    All that said, I don’t know what any of the financial or emotional factors look like for you. The equation is much different if you have a farm strip, an A&P, and a simple airplane than it is in/near the big city with high hangar rates, landing fees, and waits for expensive maintenance. Only you can decide that.
     
  18. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

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    Regardless, moving is not an option. I am an American. Do not want to be a Guatemalan or anything else.
     
  19. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    And that is a perfectly acceptable reason to not move. Otherwise you end up hating where you live, which is no better (actually worse than) hating where you work.
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yes, people likely to do this are likely to not have those problems. People likely to do this are also likely to not need him to tell them to.

    In other words, his advice is really only good to people who fit in my category. IE: Those not already familiar with the language and customs, etc. Because of that, my advice is appropriate.
     
  21. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    This is a long goal for me with aviation....
    1) current is get to a point to where I can get hired in a flight related job
    2) ride that to age 65 and gain good experience along the way,
    3) look for opportunities post 65 including DPE, corporate, maybe education
    4) keep working for as long as I'm healthy and enjoying myself.
     
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  22. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'm more or less expecting to do similar in another 10-15 years when the kids move out of the house, assuming I'm healthy enough to do so. Who knows what the industry will look like then, though.
     
  23. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    I waited to retire and have kept my plane. I think of the cost of the airplane and the cost of my license and keeping it (physicals, annuals, BFR's) all together as an investment that I want to continue to "withdraw" from. I think if I sold my plane it would end my flying as the local club is good but I found the freedom to go when I want so nice.
     
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  24. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    That's what uninformed people like you said about my first motorcycle trip to Mexico, when I went from San Diego to the Mexican Caribbean. I was going to be robbed, beaten, killed and Odin knows what else. Instead i found n utterly wonderful country full of hard-working and friendly people. I would travel there in a heartbeat. Mexico might be poor, but it is a great land full of great people. The only real preparation was some courses in Spanish, and I did OK. That was it. And the bike was going pakita pakita and training blue smoke the whole way. I don't think I've ever had as much fun and am itching to go back.
     
  25. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    When did you do that trip?
     
  26. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    A long time ago, in the early 90s. Doesn't matter, places really don't change. Yeah, los Narcos moved form Columbia to Mexico. It isn't hard to stay out of their way. We have tons of violent drug crimes here, heck we have tons of every kind of violent crime. Would you advise Europeans not to come here because it's too dangerous?
     
  27. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    I wouldn't move to central America. You'd have to get the Garmin package which is more expensive to include those countries. :D
     
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  28. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Righteous rant bro! Has nothing to do with my point though.
     
  29. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    :rolleyes:
     
  30. charheep

    charheep Line Up and Wait

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    Can you sell but then rent? Still gets you flying, but cheaper.
     
  31. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I can't really answer the question to sell or not...
    but I will say that life is too short to do something you hate, IMO

    I've been thinking a lot lately about the spiral most folks fall into...well I have fallen into it anyway. I don't hate my job but I do hate being tied to the desk 8-5, 5 days a week.... I'm longing hard for more flexibility
    Work truly eats up so much of your lifetime it's kinda crazy when i think about it.
    you've got to work to cover the basics
    and to cover the little bit of travel or other fun you squeeze in from time to time
    but work seems to take up so much of that time, then a little bit more for family stuff, household chores, etc...then there is very little left for the fun stuff we are working so hard to fund.
    Anyway, my opinion is that life is too short to do something you hate. Even if that means giving up a hobby. You'll find another hobby that brings joy...or better yet figure out how to keep the flying hobby going in a different way....maybe a cheaper aircraft, maybe some sort of LSA or ultralight
     
  32. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I had a friend who wanted to move down south, I think his choice was Ecuador, although I may be wrong. He would tell me tales of how he could live like a king, have servants on something like less than $20,000 a year, the number may be off, but this is what he was going to do. He talked is reluctant wife into it, sold his house and was a week away from travelling south to find a place to settle. He came home to find his wife crying inconsolably, couldn't get her to stop. He finally got her to slow down enough to find out what was wrong, she told him she didn't want to move to a ****hole country and wouldn't do it. He lives in NH now.
     
  33. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    This is a question that nobody can answer for you.
    How much of your life is vested in flying?
    What would you do with your time if you retired AND sold your plane? (personally, I have found a lot more to do than I ever expected).

    Part of the issue is that when you retire, you will find you have a lot more time to enjoy life and spend money. So retirement doesn't always translate to lower cost of living. If you think you can scale back you lifestyle in retirement, then why don't you do it now, before retirement, and see how much you still enjoy it.

    And never forget that health insurance costs will soar until you reach 65 and go on Medicare.

    Can you scale back the amount of time you spend at the job you hate now?
    Have you spoken to a financial planner that can lay out the facts of retirement life for you? There may be things you never thought of. Remember, you may have to live on what you have for another 30 years or so, unless you get lucky and die young.
     
  34. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    This. How about finding a job that you don't hate? If you think you're close, but not certain you have the money you need to retire, you could find a job that interests you, even if it doesn't pay as much. Or you can volunteer at something you enjoy, which might lead to a job, even it it's part-time.

    I have no regrets about walking away, and I didn't hate my job. But I wanted to do other things with my life before I got too old or unable to do physical things such as hiking, sailing, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  35. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-rule-of-55-2894280
     
  36. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route

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  37. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Mogan, there are people who you can pay, reasonable money, to look at this for you. My sense is you would be taking a big cut in pay with your plan, but you need to figure that out. If you need a job, get the new job before you quit the old job. It can be done, you may be in a better or worse position than you think, helps to have a second pair of eyes look at it. Just make sure you don't find a predator to help you.

    Insurance is expensive, I'm paying about $1,600 a month for me and my wife. It's not getting cheaper, but you say you have that covered.
     
  38. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    So just a short drive to one? ;)

    Hahaha.

    Anyway...

    As far as the question goes. Dad used to call this the fun ratio.

    There’s things that are incredibly fun.

    There’s things you have to do or give up to do those things.

    If the thing didn’t bring as much joy or higher than the pain needed to pay for it/live the lifestyle/whatever...

    The fun ratio was backward.

    Work hard, grimace, to pay to fly airplane, grin.

    If the grin wasn’t bigger than the grimace, he stopped doing it. He made sure to try something new that he thought would be fun to replace it.

    Example was his mountain cabin. Was worth the grin for many years. As he aged, maintaining it brought bigger and bigger grimaces along with the grin. Eventually the grimaces weren’t worth it anymore.

    He took the money and bought other stuff he liked to do.

    He still had those when he passed away so the grins must have still been bigger than the grimaces.
     
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  39. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    OP stated he would receive health insurance.
     
  40. Brad W

    Brad W Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nate, I love the way your dad put it