I've introduced myself as a low time PP SEL. I'm over 100 hours and still not comfortable with windy days. I took today as a great opportunity to stretch my comfort zone. The wind was 11 G 15 and variable from 0 to 35 degrees off the runway heading - plenty manageable for a 172. The wind at 3,000' was gusty and 25 - rolling the wings 25* or more each gust. To save a long boring story, I got my *ss handed to me so I stayed around the airport and practiced landings. I quit after the one that apparently made enough noise to make people look up from what they were doing. All of the parts did come back to the hangar with me. On less windy days I've been doing great with speed control and really nice touch downs. How many thousand more of these do I need to do to get good at handling this kind of day? Do you just decide that gusty and variable days are ugly and take off and land once, or do you do what I did and repeatedly dash you plane against the ground in funny looking positions until you develop the magic?
I know - it's just me...
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MAKG1
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MAKG
If you're that uncomfortable with it, I'd suggest taking a good instructor along.
It's the kind of thing one might be able to observe, but you're going to get nothing useful from an online forum.
It's the kind of thing one might be able to observe, but you're going to get nothing useful from an online forum.
tawood
En-Route
When I was a new pilot crosswinds and gusts scared me too...King makes a great video about how to handle crosswinds, and I highly recommend it. Did the trick for me.
Thanks. Already made plans with the cfi. I guess I wasn't expecting counsel as much as wondering how common this is. It doesn't seem like it should be so complicated. Incidentally, the last time I did this kind of practice with an instructor, his answer to the same questions was "sometimes that's the best you can do". I wonder if that really is the answer...
Thanks
tawood
En-Route
Np.
To give you a preview: they break down crosswind control to two parts, rudder to keep the plane pointed straight down the runway, ailerons to keep you over the runway. It's been awhile but I think I remember them showing drills to practice in still air, flying a low approach down the runway, sliding left and right with the ailerons while you stay straight with the rudders. Like I said, it really did the trick for me and after some practice it became second nature so I can now only focus on speed / gust / decent control easily staying over the centerline.
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jsstevens
Everybody has to get comfortable with it. It takes time and practice and confidence fades with disuse.
I got back in the air after a 5 month layoff and the day of my checkout (new club, new planes) we had 12+ knots nearly direct crosswind. I knocked out four of the best landings I've had in a while. (Concentration I expect.) But I wasn't confident going into it.
I got back in the air after a 5 month layoff and the day of my checkout (new club, new planes) we had 12+ knots nearly direct crosswind. I knocked out four of the best landings I've had in a while. (Concentration I expect.) But I wasn't confident going into it.
jordane93
Touchdown! Greaser!
Try some low approaches with a CFI so you can get the sight picture down.
WannFly
Final Approach
I am way low to provide any useful advise, but get a CFI along just so u know there is someone to save ur behind. I can't land for Jack and it's just my luck that when it's my time to fly, it's always windy. For example, last 3 days it's has been 3-6 kts right down the rny, today when I went up it was 15g19 and came back to pattern work at 18g22 ... bumpy with moderate chops. I am getting comfortable bringing it down to 50 AGL, then let my CFI land. Gets better every day, but frustrating as hell when u can't land on your own. But the silver lining is, it will make me a better pilot...I hope
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
One day it will just click, and you will wonder why you had so much problems before.
A couple years ago I was landing a twin in a moderate cross wind. After landing and getting out of the plane, I asked the ambulance crew if the wind was blowing like this as we were landing. They replied yes and asked why I was asking. I had to ask because I did not remember any wind while landing.
A couple years ago I was landing a twin in a moderate cross wind. After landing and getting out of the plane, I asked the ambulance crew if the wind was blowing like this as we were landing. They replied yes and asked why I was asking. I had to ask because I did not remember any wind while landing.
I will check this out, I'm sure there is great material in it. It feels like the trouble wasn't as much centerline as just getting caught by the gusts and variability.
When I bought this plane, I made my cfi fly with me a few times. He was bored (and acted like it) as my flying was pretty darn good during my "lessons". I am sure he was paying attention and just making me work harder. Now he rolls his eyes when I say that I need a lesson. I think that you are right on with the concentration thought.
N659HB
En-Route
The lighter the plane, the more the gusts will tend to upset one. My dainty little Luscombe will balloon sometimes with a puff of air! I'm always ready to go around, though, if things get too wonky. I too was "laid off" about five months (repairs) and was apprehensive coming back. The first couple of days I flew last month there was a direct crosswind of about 6-8 knots, but it was steady. Made the best x-wind wheel landings ever, touching down on the upwind wheel first! Like @jsstevens said, perhaps it was because I was REALLY concentrating. I definitely need more practice.
RobertSubnet
Pre-takeoff checklist
Student Pilot here, the above is a part of my chair flying drills.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Hmmm. Thoughts.
- Nobody can fully evaluate your flying via text so take everything with a grain of salt. Only a CFI on board can really figure out if there's any deficiency in your aircraft control inputs and help with that.
- Yes, crosswinds and especially gusty crosswinds do create apprehension in a great many pilots.
- Sometimes in serious gusts you're not looking for "really nice touchdowns". You're looking to plant the upwind wheel and it stays planted in a "positively down and under control" touchdown. If that makes sense. Gusts never help things but were you landing planting that upwind tire and finishing the landing with the ailerons locked to the upwind stop after you slowed below flying speed?
- The number one mistake I made early on in landing in gusty conditions was not being aggressive enough as the aircraft slowed. Remember your flight controls get less effective in a big way as the airplane gets slower. Move them puppies. Glider and tailwheel time will highlight this if this is the problem, for sure. Moving controls briskly to the stops is NOT uncommon in tailwheel aircraft, it shouldn't be in a nosedragger wither. Use whatever it takes. Positive control until the aircraft goes where you want it. Don't worry about overcontrolling at first, you'll oscillate until you get the feel of that aircraft. Too much, take some out. Too little, add more. Quicker than you think it is. Practice helps.
- There's another hint in your post but I would need to see you fly to see if it's accurate but I'll offer it and you can evaluate yourself. You were very specific about number of degrees of bank the gusts were causing. We're you looking inside at the AI? Reason I ask is, fighting gusts on a three inch instrument isn't going to be as effective as eyeballs outside. Always. In gusty conditions my eyeballs only come inside for one thing really, airspeed control. And that's just a glance for a trend. The ASI is going to bounce around a bit, but I want an AVERAGE speed that's a reasonable approach speed and a glance every so often to make sure I haven't encountered a horrible wind shear. I couldn't tell you how many degrees I got rocked on a bad blustery day at all. I can tell you if it was coming close to dragging a wingtip (severe, and go-around is always an option... always!) but not number of degrees. Ignore the AI. The horizon works better to see AND positively arrest a roll rate or a pitch rate. You'll see it sooner and correct for it sooner eyeballs out.
- Another tip. If you want to get good at locking the ailerons over properly as you slow, don't practice with touch and goes. Practice with full stop, taxi backs. This is another tip learned from taildraggers. In crappy winds a full stop taxi back is harder than a touch and go because you're going to lose control authority. This transfers to nosegear airplanes but the nosegear covers up the effect some.
- Advanced version, only do with a CFI... make a couple one wheel takeoffs on a calm day. See just how much aileron you really need as the aircraft speeds up to bank the airplane up on one wheel and how much rudder to keep it straight as it accelerates (you need all the aileron and some rudder to start, more rudder as it accelerates and less aileron as it gets faster, and you're letting off most of it at liftoff -- it's about feeling the air pressure resisting you on the controls as the aircraft moves faster). These pressures and control inputs are simply reversed in a strong crosswind landing. They'll average about the same in gusts with positive quick movements to stop the aircraft from going off the intended track. Make sense?
At 100 hours I was timid on the controls and gusty days would "freeze me up" a little. I would try to be SMOOTHER thinking that would ease the gusts. It doesn't. Someday you'll get a gust that'll hit hard enough that you need ALL of the aileron RIGHT NOW.
My first instructor would have agreed with yours with the sentiment that "sometimes that's the best you can do", but he would follow up with, "did you run out of rudder or aileron first"? That's part two to that phrase.
Hope that helps. Go hit some blustery days with a CFI and work until you sweat. That'll make it "click" faster than anything. And then after that you'll know how when necessary, but your excellent judgment as PIC will know the days it'll just kinda suck to be aloft and then you get to choose... workout day, or bag it?
Have fun. It's a blast when you get it to work. And none of us get gusts to work prefect 100% of the time. Sometimes the tires squeak and complain as they slide sideways a little. Oops. But you got close and they didn't slide sideways for long.
This. I mainly learned this from @Cajun_Flyer from her checkride story that you have to muscle the plane at times. My instructor always wanted me to fly with finesse. I've decided that in wind gusts and nasty crosswinds, finesse has to go bye-bye. I wish I would have learned that earlier, but I know it now. Don't be a passenger. Be the pilot.
BigBadLou
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Lou
I bet one useful thing he got from this online forum is solid advice to bring a good instructor! (in all seriousness)
I usually advise the same.
You know what they say: "a CFI in the cockpit is worth two (hundred) (useless replies) in the (Interweb) bush".
MAKG1
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I learned from Cajun's checkride story that you have to bring a lot of funny hats along.