I have no words...

For reference:

upload_2017-6-13_3-4-37.png
 
Sylvia needs to step away from the keyboard. I suppose she is no worse than other self-anointed experts.

As for the accident pilot, well there are people like that out there. I know of a couple VFR guys who have told me they have deliberately flown in IMC. Sometimes people just talk. Sometimes people actually do really stupid stuff. Of course this guy went way beyond flight in IMC without training, rating, or clearance...

Anyway, the NTSB report is the thing to read. Sylvia's interpretation of the NTSB REPORT is like one of citizen5000 posts, a reader is dumber when they finish with it.
 
From that NTSB report:

"According to records obtained from the pilot's Veteran's Administration Hospital, in January 2013, he was documented as having multiple chronic medical conditions including spinal stenosis, hypothyroidism, depressive disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic disorder, gastroesophageal reflux disease, esophageal stricture, chronic neck pain, paraplegia, peptic ulcer disease, type 2 diabetes, and emphysema."


Uhh... say again?
 
deonb said:
From that NTSB report:

"According to records obtained from the pilot's Veteran's Administration Hospital, in January 2013, he was documented as having multiple chronic medical conditions including spinal stenosis, hypothyroidism, depressive disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic disorder, gastroesophageal reflux disease, esophageal stricture, chronic neck pain, paraplegia, peptic ulcer disease, type 2 diabetes, and emphysema."
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Holy crap!!! :yikes:
 
deonb said:
From that NTSB report:

"According to records obtained from the pilot's Veteran's Administration Hospital, in January 2013, he was documented as having multiple chronic medical conditions including spinal stenosis, hypothyroidism, depressive disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic disorder, gastroesophageal reflux disease, esophageal stricture, chronic neck pain, paraplegia, peptic ulcer disease, type 2 diabetes, and emphysema."


Uhh... say again?
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Well it did say he was capable of transfer out of a wheelchair. Anyway I'm sure a light piston twin was a good choice for him.
 
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deonb said:
From that NTSB report:

"According to records obtained from the pilot's Veteran's Administration Hospital, in January 2013, he was documented as having multiple chronic medical conditions including spinal stenosis, hypothyroidism, depressive disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic disorder, gastroesophageal reflux disease, esophageal stricture, chronic neck pain, paraplegia, peptic ulcer disease, type 2 diabetes, and emphysema."


Uhh... say again?
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Do they make hand controls for the 310?
 
That one just showed up in the recent NTSB Reporter (or as I call it, Plane Crash Monthly).

Not all paraplegia is completely disabling. Some of it just involves sensation and muscular problems.
 
In addition to the medical problems, there's also the problem of no instrument or multiengine rating.

Ther definitely seems to be some cognitive defects going on. The guy could barely talk.

By the way TDW was the proposed destination, but all the fun and games took place at FLG.
 
I can't believe the tower even let him depart after the hot mess landing, incursion and phone call.

IMG_0414.JPG
 
Reminds me of that kid student pilot who stole the keys to a twin at his field, took a few of his friends for a joy ride in low IFR, and crashed within seconds of takeoff.
 
James_Dean said:
I can't believe the tower even let him depart after the hot mess landing, incursion and phone call.
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Given the details of the report, I doubt tower had any control over the guy at all. He probably would have just left on his own with or without tower's consent. Turn the radio off and go.

The pilot was a moron for sure, but I have to wonder about the people that crawled into the plane with him knowing he had all those afflictions. I feel more sorry for the two pax that died then the darwin award winner flying the plane.
 
deonb said:
From that NTSB report:

"According to records obtained from the pilot's Veteran's Administration Hospital, in January 2013, he was documented as having multiple chronic medical conditions including spinal stenosis, hypothyroidism, depressive disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, panic disorder, gastroesophageal reflux disease, esophageal stricture, chronic neck pain, paraplegia, peptic ulcer disease, type 2 diabetes, and emphysema."


Uhh... say again?
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Sounds like a good candidate for BasicMed. :eek::D
 
Things this guy did right:

1. Called Flight Service for a briefing before taking off (but he only gets a half-point since he asked for an abbreviated briefing and clearly had not received a full briefing)

And that's about it. The things he did wrong are too numerous to list, but a few noteworthy examples are:
1. Misreading sunset-to-sunrise lighting and a 5100 foot runway at KTDW as identifier L51 on at least two occasions, one documented (flight service) and one extremely probable (flight path)
2. Blindly following the magenta line on a GPS that the pilot apparently didn't know how to operate
3. Badly following said magenta line (crash site was 40 degrees to the right of a direct FLG-L51 course and about 240 nm downrange from FLG; a direct course at 11,500 MSL would have crashed in the High Uintas instead)
4. Grossly inflating hours in his logbook and medical application

But ultimately, it comes down to those hazardous attitudes, like invulnerability. It can't happen to me. No matter how hard I try to make it happen to me.
 
I hate to say it but the way much of the stuff in that report reads it doesn't sound too different than what I've seen come from some recreational flyers who rarely fly, and even some that fly semi regularly.
 
mondtster said:
I hate to say it but the way much of the stuff in that report reads it doesn't sound too different than what I've seen come from some recreational flyers who rarely fly, and even some that fly semi regularly.
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It's a matter of degree and it's a slippery slope to get there. It's easy to imagine the guy who mistuned the radio at the uncontrolled field or took the runway with a plane on final one time, but didn't think it was a big deal since it was just that one time, turning it into a habit so bad and so ingrained that he doesn't turn the radios on at all until on takeoff roll at a towered field with a regional jet on short final behind him. And when we see those people starting off on that road, we probably all have the same struggle of how involved to get in managing someone else's life, especially if it's someone else that we don't think will listen anyhow.
 
iamtheari said:
It's a matter of degree and it's a slippery slope to get there. It's easy to imagine the guy who mistuned the radio at the uncontrolled field or took the runway with a plane on final one time, but didn't think it was a big deal since it was just that one time, turning it into a habit so bad and so ingrained that he doesn't turn the radios on at all until on takeoff roll at a towered field with a regional jet on short final behind him. And when we see those people starting off on that road, we probably all have the same struggle of how involved to get in managing someone else's life, especially if it's someone else that we don't think will listen anyhow.
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You see a lot of interesting stuff when doing flight reviews. My observation is that the more an individual says that they are good on their flying so all they'll need is the 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight, the longer a real flight review is going to actually take.
 
mondtster said:
I hate to say it but the way much of the stuff in that report reads it doesn't sound too different than what I've seen come from some recreational flyers who rarely fly, and even some that fly semi regularly.
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Can read their material here every day: Can't plan a flight/trip; can't make phone calls; panic at the mere thought of the magenta line disappearing; have to fly a pattern that is different than the only way they know; can't read regulations or the AIM; know more than professionals; and etc, etc, etc.
 
mondtster said:
You see a lot of interesting stuff when doing flight reviews. My observation is that the more an individual says that they are good on their flying so all they'll need is the 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight, the longer a real flight review is going to actually take.
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That isn't anything new. It was like that back in the 1980s, back before anyone had ever seen a magenta line.
 
Crazy reading that article, surprised he made it that far in his piloting career.. although who knows the honesty of any of his prior logbook entries, etc. I was surprised, and impressed, with how patient the tower stayed throughout all of this

The other thing I don't understand is, training is your friend. Get the training you need, licensed, and qualified to fly not just legally, but SAFELY. The deliberate VFR into IMC stuff always leaves me speechless. Flying in clouds can be a remarkably unforgiving environment. Not IR rated, but working towards it and the handful of dual actual IMC flights I have definitely make you appreciate how "on your game" you must be
 
Clark1961 said:
Sylvia needs to step away from the keyboard. I suppose she is no worse than other self-anointed experts.
...
Anyway, the NTSB report is the thing to read. Sylvia's interpretation of the NTSB REPORT is like one of citizen5000 posts, a reader is dumber when they finish with it.
Click to expand...

Just curious what another good resource for NTSB reports would be, besides sifting through the original report yourself? Is there some other "news" style site that has an article associated with a report?
 
I lived not far from Barstow and Big Bear. Crazy stuff. My dad says my mom knows the family and drugs were often involved.
 
No flight plane.


(I know. It never gets old, does it?)
 
Wow, he gives being crazy a bad reputation.
As far as all the medical diagnosis, that is legal stuff to justify a disability check every month not 'real' diagnosis
The paraplegia was probably a numb toe, or some such
I saw a ton of that in 4 decades of practicing
As long as it was not my signature being demanded on the attestation form it wasn't my problem
If it was my signature being demanded then 'they' had a problem, not me - I don't need money that badly
What I would really like to know more about are the two clones of Einstein who climbed into the coffin with him
 
denverpilot said:
I think we discussed this guy before but I have never seen the Flagstaff Tower transcript included with it. It's just jaw dropping.

The NTSB report has other interesting info like the toxicology report...

But anyway... for your reading enjoyment...

https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/accident-reports/hes-a-terror-in-a-twin/
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@denverpilot

Nate,

While I will not defend the pilot in any way perhaps I can offer some insight. I've no information other than the report on this particular accident but base my observations on past experience. I'm going to open up here, and to those who can't deal with suicide I suggest you stop reading now. Perhaps the non rated pilot had the same drug-induced problems as my late wife. The drug she was taking, and was prescribed in good faith by our doctor, was her downfall. It was not till after her death that I took time to research the drug. I contacted a high powered lawyer who dealt with these situations and was advised to not spend money taking them to court. He said the pharmaceuticals had paid a lot of "hush money" but had never lost a case in court. I dropped the idea of suing them. Money would not have brought her back and would have been of little consolation. I had no will to sue our doctor. He acted in good faith based on information from the pharmaceutical company. Sadly, the information they provided excluded the notation that their drug, in some circumstances, induced people to take their own lives.

With or without drug influence there are those who think suicide is the best option. I can't justify that unless toward the end of life becomes intolerable. Nuff said.

I'm not looking for, nor do i expect sympathy for my post I'm simply stating what happened. **** happens, and we who survive it have to deal with it as best we can.
 
KA550 said:
Can read their material here every day: Can't plan a flight/trip; can't make phone calls; panic at the mere thought of the magenta line disappearing; have to fly a pattern that is different than the only way they know; can't read regulations or the AIM; know more than professionals; and etc, etc, etc.
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I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
 
mondtster said:
I've always wondered how the average PoA pilot flys compared to the average pilot I see. With the way things are presented here online everyone here must be Bob Hoover Jr. except for me since they make no mistakes.

My bet is that the average pilot here is much like the average pilot that doesn't participate, even though it sure doesn't appear that way by what you read.
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I must disagree quite violently. If a pilot is reading these pages, odds are his or her head is a least a little in the game. Pilots crash because their heads aren't in the game, at least not enough. Reading social media posts is certainly no substitute for flying the airplane, but it can keep you in the game to some degree.
 
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