Hi, Came back from a flight, and I entered to class B by mistake on the climb, the class starts at 1500 and i cruised at 1700 for 10 minutes. only after landing on my way home i realized my mistake. Second thing- after landing tower told me contact ground but all i did was switch to the ground freq and just taxied to the ramp (which was really close to the runway), without speaking to the ground at all.. my question is do you think these 2 situations are a problem? im already home its been a few hours since landing and no one ever called or something did this kind of things happen to anyone ?
I have a question about 2 situations
- Thread starter Dan4334
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Velocity173
Not a problem. If it was, they would’ve, and if time permits, required to issue a “Brasher.” 200 ft violation when 200 ft is still within Mode C validation criteria, isn’t an issue for ATC. Especially, if no sep was lost with other aircraft within the B.
Ok thx, and what is this "brasher"? I dont have to report something right?
Kenny Phillips
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Only at Sunday confession.
James331
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If you didn’t get a number to call you’re probably fine
Might as well fill this out
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html
Also I’m like 80% sure you’re trolling us
Might as well fill this out
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html
Also I’m like 80% sure you’re trolling us
midlifeflyer
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Fly
It might not be a bad idea to file a NASA report.
"Brasher" is the name of a case.
The ATC Handbook requires controllers to advise pilots that they may have committed a deviation if workload permits. The typical language is "possible pilot deviation. Suggest you contact [facility] at [phone number]." The purpose is to let them know at the time so the pilot can check things to see if ATC was wrong and put together information for a defense of a possible certificate action or inquiry. In the Brasher case, ATC did not give the warning and a certificate action brought by the FAA was dismissed.
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luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's not something you do. It's something they do. Warn you that they might process a Pilot Deviation.
Chapter 3. Notifications
3-1. Flight Crew Notification of Suspected Pilot Deviations (PD)
.
a. When the employee providing air traffic services determines that pilot actions affected the safety of operations, the employee must report through the MOR process and notify the flight crew as soon as operationally practical using the following phraseology:
PHRASEOLOGY-
(Aircraft identification)
POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone
number).
b. The employee reporting the occurrence should notify the front-line manager (or controller-in-
charge), operations manager, as appropriate, of the circumstances involved so that they may be
communicated to the pilot upon contacting the facility.
NOTE-
This notification, known as the “Brasher Notification,” is intended to provide the involved flight crew with an opportunity to make note of the occurrence and collect their thoughts for future coordination with Flight Standards regarding enforcement actions or operator training.
EDIT: I see @midlifeflyer answered this a few minutes ago. I'll just leave this here so you can see exactly what their rule book says about it.
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You’re in deep deep kimchi my friend.
I kid.
Yeah, If you didn’t get a number to call, you’re probably okay, but I would still file a NASA just to cover yourself. Worse case scenario if you didn’t pose a traffic confliction to anyone, would be a slap on the peepee and then send you on your way.
I kid.
Yeah, If you didn’t get a number to call, you’re probably okay, but I would still file a NASA just to cover yourself. Worse case scenario if you didn’t pose a traffic confliction to anyone, would be a slap on the peepee and then send you on your way.
when I saw the answers I was wondering what is wronge with my question. it was my first ever flight as a PIC after the checkride, was a bit nervous and those deviations was really a concern to me.. in addition I'm not even an US citizen
thanks for the answers
Kenny Phillips
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ASRS = A$$ Saving Report System
tawood
En-Route
Wow, he throws in "very first flight/not a citizen"!!! Nice play my trolling friend, nice play!
Clip4
Final Approach
2 situations, 1 problem.
ARFlyer
En-Route
It all depends if QA picked your deviation up. If they did ATC will file a mandatory report and send it to the local FSDO. They aren't required to issue a Brasher for the FSDO to continue an investigation for a Pilot Deviation.
You won't know anything till a FAA Inspector cold calls you when they get around to the report. It can go two ways a Compliance Action or Enforcement. If your willing to work with the Inspector and show a positive learning attitude you'll be fine. They'll, in my opinion, just do a Compliance Action which is just telephone/in person counseling, remedial training, or something other like a few online safety courses like on Class B and ATC. A CA isn't an enforcement so no "Letter" will be generated.
I'd move on with life and if you get a call in a few weeks or so just work with the guy. You have some bad apples but most of us just want to make sure your safe and close the report out. Just showing an honest picture of what could happen.
Just watch the altitude next time and enjoy your next flight!
You won't know anything till a FAA Inspector cold calls you when they get around to the report. It can go two ways a Compliance Action or Enforcement. If your willing to work with the Inspector and show a positive learning attitude you'll be fine. They'll, in my opinion, just do a Compliance Action which is just telephone/in person counseling, remedial training, or something other like a few online safety courses like on Class B and ATC. A CA isn't an enforcement so no "Letter" will be generated.
I'd move on with life and if you get a call in a few weeks or so just work with the guy. You have some bad apples but most of us just want to make sure your safe and close the report out. Just showing an honest picture of what could happen.
Just watch the altitude next time and enjoy your next flight!
Skyrys62
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Meet the Fokkers
Was it ground or ground control?
That would make the biggest difference.
That would make the biggest difference.
Lachlan
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OP- If you toss in your share of the funds to build the wall, all will be forgiven. Welcome to America.
Hank S
En-Route
Two questions asked. Here are your answers:
Yes. Yes. No. No. Maybe. Maybe.
Choose the ones that fit. what is the difference? I meant for the ground freq you contact after vacating the active runway, when the tower tells you "monitor/contact ground on- (freq)"
steingar
Taxi to Parking
The good news is once we're all equipped with ADSB they'll know exactly who violated what airspace. Isn't that heartwarming?
Kenny Phillips
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If you have ADSB, then you have a GPS, and thus a system that can warn you if you are getting close to entering controlled airspace. That would make an incursion either intentional or incompetent in nature.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Not even remotely true. My ADSB transponder does not a thing to assist me in navigation. That said, I can't imagine why anyone doesn't have a GPS. They're inexpensive things.
Skyrys62
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Meet the Fokkers
It was a joke referencing another thread....
Kenny Phillips
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I meant that as GPS is a prerequisite for ADS-B, there's one onboard. I do see that some ADS-B setups come with a "blind" GPS just for that purpose; still, as you mention, GPS is cheap. Heck, Lowrance has such things as an "obstruction database" more than two decades ago.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Not all ADSB transponders require an onboard WAAS source. Mine is standalone, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But having a GPS for navigation is so inexpensive, and it is such a boon to situational awareness that I honestly can't understand why everyone doesn't fly with one.
Kenny Phillips
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I agree. I'm old, and I learned on steam gauges starting forty+ years ago (and finally finished twenty+ years ago!) but I will never own a plane without decent and reliable electronics, especially a GPS. (We had Loran, ADF, two omnis, and a portable GPS in the previous bucket, all "old school" stuff, no graphics except on the GPS, which I still have!)