I hate my January annuals

Wow that’s a long wait. What the heck is going on with the engine manufacturers? US made products with union employees and no stock! I should have invested in engine inventory. Same thing is going on with automotive engines. We’re going to need new IO540’s on the Aztec soon. Also cylinders for the IO520 are probably in the forecast.
 
My bad on missing the obw location.

I never did learn to type hence I only use 1 finger.

To do so I have to look at the keyboard and not the words.

This is followed by checking to see what words are actually there after auto correct.

Much easier to do so with double spacing.

Oddly enough; I participate in several forums with no complaints.

Put me on auto-delete?
 
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Try Triad aviation. Our flying club uses them for overhauls and we have 13 aircraft that fly 400-800 hrs/yr each. They turn ours around quick, however we are something of a regular customer.

http://www.hhtriad.com/engine
 
Rgbeard said:
huh. Went to post #1 and still don’t see it.

color me stoopid.
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"Does anyone have any insights on an overhaul shop that could potentially turn around a Lycoming O-360-A4M relatively quickly? I'm based in MA, so east coast would be preferable."

It's there.
 
Racerx said:
"Does anyone have any insights on an overhaul shop that could potentially turn around a Lycoming O-360-A4M relatively quickly? I'm based in MA, so east coast would be preferable."

It's there.
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gotcha. Evelyn Wood let me down.

that said, op prefers to be argumentative rather than providing a simple answer. He’s gonna fit in great, around here. :)
 
dell30rb said:
Try Triad aviation. Our flying club uses them for overhauls and we have 13 aircraft that fly 400-800 hrs/yr each. They turn ours around quick, however we are something of a regular customer.

http://www.hhtriad.com/engine
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I’m surprised you guys still use them after some of the issues you’ve had. In fact, I know many people who’ve had issues with them and highly advise people not to use them.
 
obw said:
Here it is...
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Hard to tell, but looks like some spalling. Did the engine make static RPM? My previous Cheetah had some pitting on the Lobes found during the prebuy. Engine ran fine for the 10 years I had the plane. No,loss in static RPM, no metal other than the piston pin issue I mentioned earlier.
 
Grum.Man said:
I’m surprised you guys still use them after some of the issues you’ve had. In fact, I know many people who’ve had issues with them and highly advise people not to use them.
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Honestly this is the first I've heard of any issues. I'm also not really in the loop with what goes on w/ maintenance. I volunteered to pick a 152 engine up from their shop a few months ago, so we were using them as of then.
 
Rcmutz said:
Hard to tell, but looks like some spalling. Did the engine make static RPM? My previous Cheetah had some pitting on the Lobes found during the prebuy. Engine ran fine for the 10 years I had the plane. No,loss in static RPM, no metal other than the piston pin issue I mentioned earlier.
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Thanks. My AP said he didn't see any spalling, just the pitting. During the time I've owned it, there were no problems making static RPM. If it weren't for the aluminum in the filter, I wouldn't have suspected any issues at all with the engine.
 
I’ve used Triad a number of times. Good folks but they were extremely backed up the last time I was there. My customer had to wait a very long time with the airplane down. This was followed by a few problems to boot. Overall I like them and appreciate the knowledge and helpfulness they showed. My customer however won’t use them again.
 
Jdm said:
I’ve used Triad a number of times. Good folks but they were extremely backed up the last time I was there. My customer had to wait a very long time with the airplane down. This was followed by a few problems to boot. Overall I like them and appreciate the knowledge and helpfulness they showed. My customer however won’t use them again.
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The flying club had a few bad apples from them. I had some cylinders they rebuilt that ended up being junk. Known a few others that got crap out of them. The prop shop however is pretty good.
 
Magman said:
I never did learn to type hence I only use 1 finger.
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The double spacing doesn’t bother me but I will offer a suggestion. One that helped me accomplish a significant self improvement. I was the same way about 20 years ago. Found myself struggling to type out stuff. My ex used to help me type anything large because she was so fast and accurate. I got tired of hearing her crap so I purchased a program to learn to type. It was cool because the program was built around a airport magazine stand. So I could essentially read airport magazines while learning to type. It starts slow and forces you to place each finger in the proper location. Basically you have to type over what you read in order to keep reading. It was fun. And in a few months of reading about an hour a day I could out type the ex. Really ****ed her off because she took a couple years of typing in school:)
 
@obw First of all, as someone who as been through a couple maintenance misadventures, I just want to say that I can empathize with what you’ve been through. Sounds like it’s been rough.

But I’m curious: when you bought the Archer, I’m guessing you did a seriously thorough pre-buy. When you closed, did you know this engine was suspect and might be on its last leg, or was this another huge surprise?
 
I’ve thought about typing since I had my manual typewriter.

My plan became to stay with my “ graphite rod that is digitally manipulated, cellulose enclosed with a rubber corrective device on the end”.

Toyed with the idea again when I got a Sinclair ( pre- Commodore ) computer.

Made some progress with much later desk and laptop units.

Then the phone and iPad came into my life!

Does this look better?

Did you feel any sympathy for the “ Fed Folks “ that have endured
MANY 337s to review?

Especially the Field Approvals!
 
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Magman said:
I’ve thought about typing since I had my manual typewriter.

My plan became to stay with my “ graphite rod that is digitally manipulated, cellulose enclosed with a rubber corrective device on the end”.

Toyed with the idea again when I got a Sinclair ( pre- Commodore ) computer.

Made some progress with much later desk and laptop units.

Then the phone and iPad came into my life!

Does this look better?

Did you feel any sympathy for the “ Fed Folks “ that have endured
MANY 337s to review?

Especially the Field Approvals!
Click to expand...

yes. Thank you!! I suspect carriage returns in the middle of your sentences were the culprit.

don’t press return at the end of your screen. Only at the end of sentences and paragraphs.

I have that t-shirt myself.
 
Magman said:
Does this look better?

Did you feel any sympathy for the “ Fed Folks “ that have endured
MANY 337s to review?

Especially the Field Approvals!
Click to expand...

Looks great! The first computer I used was also a Sinclair - the ZX81 (then a TI-99, Vic20, Commodore 64…)
 
AA5Bman said:
@obw First of all, as someone who as been through a couple maintenance misadventures, I just want to say that I can empathize with what you’ve been through. Sounds like it’s been rough.

But I’m curious: when you bought the Archer, I’m guessing you did a seriously thorough pre-buy. When you closed, did you know this engine was suspect and might be on its last leg, or was this another huge surprise?
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thanks for the comments. There weren’t surprises with having to do engine work. My mechanic had been maintaining the plane for more than 25 years and told me what we’d likely need to take care of in the coming years. When I bought it, there was no aluminum in the filter, just one cylinder with low compression. My hope was that I’d get a few more years before the engine would just need a new cylinder or perhaps a top. So this was in the cards. Now I’m trying to minimize downtime, cost permitting.
 
Rgbeard said:
gotcha. Evelyn Wood let me down.

that said, op prefers to be argumentative rather than providing a simple answer. He’s gonna fit in great, around here. :)
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I guess Evelyn Wood is letting me down now, because I don't see the OP arguing even once in any of his answers.
 
Resistance to Cam wear is provided by the Case Hardening Process.

This procedure hardens the surface, but only to a depth of a few thousandths.

Once worn through the wear rate accelerates rapidly.

“Rapidly” is 25-50 hours though. Not one flight.
 
There was a local aerobatics guy who ordered parts for his plane in 2018 (ie well before covid) and he got his plane back this fall. Apparently the German supplier for whatever part he needed was making them out of unobtainium or something. 3 years on an annual? The the 2nd worst thing that could happen (yours takes the cake with a "you can't fly this again").

Sorry to hear about this. An organization I'm involved with has had their Chieftain engine out for about a year with no estimate of when parts will be available. It's a very unfortunate part of the world we live in.
 
flyingpreacher said:
There was a local aerobatics guy who ordered parts for his plane in 2018 (ie well before covid) and he got his plane back this fall. Apparently the German supplier for whatever part he needed was making them out of unobtainium or something. 3 years on an annual? The the 2nd worst thing that could happen (yours takes the cake with a "you can't fly this again").

Sorry to hear about this. An organization I'm involved with has had their Chieftain engine out for about a year with no estimate of when parts will be available. It's a very unfortunate part of the world we live in.
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Thanks. I guess one positive is that it's a pretty common engine, so I'm hopeful parts will be available to get me flying sooner than later. Based on all the input from the forum, it seems like the camshaft is serviceable now but likely to degrade as time goes on. The cause of the aluminum in the filter has been identified. So a reasonable plan sounds like to get the offending cylinder overhauled, reassemble the engine, continue to fly it while monitoring static RPM and oil analysis, and then plan for a major overhaul or engine swap.
 
26 weeks - yikes! I thought I had it bad when a remanufactured IO360 from Lycoming took 17 weeks for me about a year ago. If it were mine, I would fly your present engine, checking the oil and filter more frequently. As others have said, it will not die suddenly on you. Order the new engine and replace when it comes in. On a factory rebuilt engine, Lycoming requires only a complete core. They will not care what the cylinders or cam looks like.

On mine, I was considering keeping my core, rebuilding it with my A&P/IA, and keeping it as a preserved spare. But the $17,400 core charge disabused me of that notion.
 
I'd investigate Penn Yan Aero as an option. They gave me fast turnaround on an O-320.
 
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It's now coming up on six months since I dropped my plane off for it's annual, and it looked like there was finally light at the end of the tunnel. However, I'm not there yet.

The engine was sent off for an IRAN in January and I knew I'd need a new cam and overhaul the cylinders. It turned out that the crankshaft also needed to be overhauled. I sent the prop off for an IRAN too, and got a call to say it was no longer within specs. So I had to get a new prop.

Then last week, my mechanic called to say that the engine shop was doing its final inspection in the test cell and the engine wasn't making full power. The engine guy pulled a cylinder and found that the new camshaft had failed. I was worried about infant mortality with the engine when I finally got flying again, but wasn't expecting fetal mortality with the engine prior to it leaving the shop.

On the bright side, I'd much rather have the issue identified now rather than after it was installed back in the plane. Or on take-off for my first flight. The engine shop managed to locate a new cam which was my big worry with supply chain issues. Fingers crossed things will go more smoothly from now on and that I'll be flying at some point in July.

The joys of airplane ownership!
 
Wow - it's been some adventure for you.

I'm sorry for all the surprises that have fallen your way.

But the good news is, 0 SMOH and 0 PROP feel pretty darn good. Wishing you the best with your nearly-new plane.
 
Rgbeard said:
Wow - it's been some adventure for you.

I'm sorry for all the surprises that have fallen your way.

But the good news is, 0 SMOH and 0 PROP feel pretty darn good. Wishing you the best with your nearly-new plane.
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Thanks!

Unfortunately after all that, it won't be a 0 SMOH engine. When I was discussing what to do with the engine back in January, I was told that the IRAN would take 2 1/2 months but an OH would be 6 months and would be ~$12K more. So I picked the IRAN. As things transpired, my IRAN has now taken 6 months and I'm not too sure what the cost difference will be, but I suspect it won't be very much less than the OH would have been. But it should be a nice engine - top and bottom overhaul, just not the other stuff that constitutes a major.
 
obw said:
Thanks!

Unfortunately after all that, it won't be a 0 SMOH engine. When I was discussing what to do with the engine back in January, I was told that the IRAN would take 2 1/2 months but an OH would be 6 months and would be ~$12K more. So I picked the IRAN. As things transpired, my IRAN has now taken 6 months and I'm not too sure what the cost difference will be, but I suspect it won't be very much less than the OH would have been. But it should be a nice engine - top and bottom overhaul, just not the other stuff that constitutes a major.
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Geez, obw, if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all!
 
Even 26 weeks is not true. I ordered a Lycoming Reman on 11/23/21 through AirPower and was told 24-26 weeks. I just got an unsolicited email from them (week 30) telling me they have no update for me. Fortunately, I'm still flying.
 
its a case of pay me now or pay me later. that cam is on its way out. as it has been said, it will not be on the next flight, but it will not fix its shelf. as the cam wears, metal particles are going in to the oil. the filter will not get them all and some will be sent through the oil galleys to the crank, gears, and everywhere else possibly causing damage that will cost more when those parts are red tagged during the overhaul that WILL come. it has years and 1300 hrs on it. bite the bullet and just get it overhauled. I overhauled one of mine that had 600hrs on it because of this issue.
 
It was an IRAN before the crank was deemed to need work or grinding. Not sure how it's not an overhaul with cams, crank, and cylinders at this point.

Any word on whatever happened to the previous A&P's that signed off on the rotten 160?
 
Racerx said:
It was an IRAN before the crank was deemed to need work or grinding. Not sure how it's not an overhaul with cams, crank, and cylinders at this point.

Any word on whatever happened to the previous A&P's that signed off on the rotten 160?
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Although many of the engine components have been overhauled or replaced, I don't think all the required measurements and tolerances will have been checked for it to be considered a major overhaul. I don't believe anything was done with the crankcase for example. I'd be thrilled if I was wrong and it was a considered an overhaul.

Re: the 160, I had a discussion last year with the local FSDO and explained the whole situation. The officer was sympathetic to my situation but said it would be difficult for them to prove that the A&Ps had signed off the annuals negligently. At this point, I just wanted to move on, so didn't push it further with the FAA.
 
I finally got to pick up my plane after its 6+ month annual. The engine IRAN was more involved than anticipated. In addition to overhauling the cylinders and a new cam, the crankshaft also needed to be sent out for overhauling. When the engine shop finally had everything assembled and were checking the engine out in the test cell, they noticed it wasn't making full power. They then pulled a cylinder and found the new camshaft had failed. The engine was torn down again and fortunately the shop was able to locate a new cam. It added another month, but I feel lucky that the issue was found before the engine left the shop and also a new camshaft was available. While the plane was out of action, I got a lot of other stuff taken care of too - a new prop, seats re-cushioned, fuel sender OH'd, repaired pitot heater, installed a GT-50....

The engine shop put the first couple of hours on the IRAN'd engine in the test cell and my mechanic then flew the plane for another two hours to check everything out. I picked the plane up at the weekend and went on two cross-countries, putting another 5 hours on it. Everything worked great, and so far there seems to be very little oil consumption.

It feels great to be back flying my own plane again! I had rented a plane occasionally to stay current during the 6 months of down-time, but really missed my Archer and the flexibility of flying when I wanted. Looking forward to putting lots of hours on it as we head into late summer and fall.
 
obw said:
It feels great to be back flying my own plane again! I had rented a plane occasionally to stay current during the 6 months of down-time, but really missed my Archer and the flexibility of flying when I wanted. Looking forward to putting lots of hours on it as we head into late summer and fall.
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it's good that you got the plane back... hope it works out well.
 
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My GF was taking a lesson in a rental plane 2 months ago when it blew off two cylinders on T. O. No casualties other than the 0360-A4M. The mechanics have the plane grounded waiting for parts and tell her that it will be at least 4 more months until they can get new cylinders. Nobody seems to have the cylinder kits in stock anywhere and places are expecting to have 4-6 month waits for them.
 
obw said:
I finally got to pick up my plane after its 6+ month annual. The engine IRAN was more involved than anticipated. In addition to overhauling the cylinders and a new cam, the crankshaft also needed to be sent out for overhauling. When the engine shop finally had everything assembled and were checking the engine out in the test cell, they noticed it wasn't making full power. They then pulled a cylinder and found the new camshaft had failed. The engine was torn down again and fortunately the shop was able to locate a new cam. It added another month, but I feel lucky that the issue was found before the engine left the shop and also a new camshaft was available. While the plane was out of action, I got a lot of other stuff taken care of too - a new prop, seats re-cushioned, fuel sender OH'd, repaired pitot heater, installed a GT-50....

The engine shop put the first couple of hours on the IRAN'd engine in the test cell and my mechanic then flew the plane for another two hours to check everything out. I picked the plane up at the weekend and went on two cross-countries, putting another 5 hours on it. Everything worked great, and so far there seems to be very little oil consumption.

It feels great to be back flying my own plane again! I had rented a plane occasionally to stay current during the 6 months of down-time, but really missed my Archer and the flexibility of flying when I wanted. Looking forward to putting lots of hours on it as we head into late summer and fall.
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I admire your perseverance through all this. Here's hoping your archer stays out of the shop for a while!
 
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Jim K said:
I admire your perseverance through all this. Here's hoping your archer stays out of the shop for a while!
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Thanks. Flying again this weekend brought back just how much I love it. The plane was in great shape, the weather was lovely, and I got to fly to two new airports. I feel very fortunate to be able to enjoy such a cool hobby.
 
Glad to hear you are enjoying your plane again. It has got to feel good flying behind a fresh engine and new prop!!

Now can you move your annuals to next July 2023? And you won't have to hate your January annuals! lol
 
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