I got angry at CSRs today

I've got less experience visiting airports than most people here, but I've been to a handful. Almost to a fault, most of the employees are very friendly. Fees are what they are, but everyone from the lineman to the person at the counter have treated me respectfully.
 
ki4lzk said:
Being one of those 'ramp monkeys', I think this is an unfair generalization. It is just like any other segment of society, where some are more intelligent then others. It also is dependent on the organization that you work for. If the owner of the FBO doesn't care, chances are that his/her employees won't.
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Yep, most mechanics start on the ramp or at least also do ramp chores. The fuelers.
I suppose the same can be said of pilots after they crash and kill themelves or others. What would we call them Cockpit Monkeys?
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Hey, I love giving praise for good service, but I'm not a "no child left behind" give everyone a chance kinda guy.

You F' up my order at the sushi joint, OK, maybe you get a crappy tip.

HOWEVER I cant take the chance on you being a retard when it comes to fueling my aircraft!

Hence I teach my students to presume every one of those guys are halfwits, unfortunately more prove me right then wrong.

This is why many 135s GOMs state they must watch the fueling process.

And lastly, lets call a duck a duck here..... you dont work for chit pay (which is what $10ish a hr in 2013 America is) because you are a F'ing genius or are highly talented.
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I don't know about that. Thousands of part 135 pilots are making poverty wages as we speak.
 
jhausch said:
To the line folks listening....

Can the pilot say, "Is it OK if I fuel my airplane?" Then, with permission, use your ladder (if needed), and you hand him/her the hose? Any rules against that? Seems like the way I'd want to do it...
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I have no problem with that. It doesn't happen often but we co-operate when it does. I also understand the importance of double checking things and actually appreciate it when the pilot asks questions. However, as a BSME with a Professional Engineer license and several patents, years of management experience in the nuclear power industry, and a Pvt. Pilot Certificate with instrument rating, I might get upset at being called a "Ramp Monkey" or being buzzed because I'm checking the runway.
 
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Yep
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1195387#post1195387


It's hard to be all happy go lucky when it comes to rampworkers, when I see them take shortcuts and make minor to major mistakes at the rate I (and some of you guys) witness.

To the mother with the son working the ramp, it's admirable that you are so proud of your son and I hope he honestly does a good job.

In Canada many licensed PILOTS start out working on a company ramp where they wish to get that first pilot job.
Ofcourse these are small bush companies that only do ramp and loading service on their own company planes, those guys don't get tips are already commerical pilots, they dont make stupid mistakes like a Signature or Atlantic or ABC hired off the street/non pilot rampies.
Also they take enough flak to send most of the senstive (see hit ignore button due to the stress of the interweb lol) people on this site to the nut house. After a year or so they get to sit right seat in a DHC2 or 180. These guys are rampworkers, rampies and if you called one of them a ramp monkey they would ether probably laugh and take it as a compliment, or come right back with some creative name for you when everyone met up at the local watering hole. Senstivite types don't work well in aviation outside of a sanitized office.
 
Bravo, Diz! :thumbsup:

jhausch said:
To the line folks listening....

Can the pilot say, "Is it OK if I fuel my airplane?" Then, with permission, use your ladder (if needed), and you hand him/her the hose? Any rules against that? Seems like the way I'd want to do it...
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I almost always fill my own plane, even when it's full service via the truck. I usually say something like "as PIC I'm required to double check everything so you might as well just let me do it". Alternately, If i let them fill, then I simply ask them to leave the lid off and then climb the ladder, check the level, and reseal.

I've never had anyone take offense since they typically understand the PIC responsibility concept.

I don't tip any less because I "did it myself"...they're still out there with me on a hot ramp.
 
Sorry for the late post:

Ted DuPuis said:
Some idiot with a Ninja passed my Harley the other day when I was doing 10 under the limit in the left lane at full throttle. Doesn't he know that he should respect my slow pig of a bike and stay behind it? Jerks.

Happy owner of a 2009 Ultra Classic. :)
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Yes, you Harley guys do tick me off. And then some of you are snotty enough to refuse to waive - holier than thou attitude :D

Signed - a sport riding corner carver

Ted DuPuis said:
Agreed. Hopefully the fact that post was a joke was obvious.

We also have a sportbike in the garage. I've found mostly it's sportbike riders who are anti-Harley. Typically, the Harley riders I've met don't care.
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Yes, I got the joke - but I haven't found an anti-Harley attitude in the sport community.




93K- Quit cross posting! LoL...there, I said it.
 
weilke said:
How that happens ? Through a defective fuel selector, not uncommon on a six or 235. Through the dihedral, the fuel makes it into the mains and out the vents. Had the fuel ticket been for 60gal, you should have the fuel selector looked at. The fuel ticket with the low number proves that they simply forgot to fill the tips. But yes, it can happen in a Six.
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On my 235, there is no interconnect between the tips and the mains. There are four separate tanks.
 
David, what you are getting here is the same blowback (correct or not) that you get from the "younger cfis vs older cfi's" discussion. An older guy EXPECTS to supervise fueling, or to find tanks not filled, or to find misfueling. Anything other is a PLEASANT surprise.

This is just Humans. It's also America in the new millennium. LOWER you expectations.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
Yes, you Harley guys do tick me off. And then some of you are snotty enough to refuse to waive - holier than thou attitude :D

Signed - a sport riding corner carver

Yes, I got the joke - but I haven't found an anti-Harley attitude in the sport community.
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I'm not sure how you could call me a Harley guy when I've owned far more sportbikes and we still have one in the garage. ;)

I've found definite Harley hating in the sportbike community. If you haven't, might just be your particular group. Steingar is a proud example, and my friend who mentored me in my early days of motorcycling was also a very anti-Harley person. He pretty much stopped speaking to me when I bought one. Since you say that "you Harley guys tick me off," but claim no Harley hating observed sounds like you need some time on a couch to help you discover your feelings. :D

But you are correct that a number of Harley riders don't return "the wave." I've never had a sportbike fail to wave back at me, but I have seen a number who seem surprised that I waved at them in the first place when I'm on my Ultra Classic.

93K- Quit posting! LoL...there, I said it.
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FTFY ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm not sure how you could call me a Harley guy when I've owned far more sportbikes and we still have one in the garage. ;)

I've found definite Harley hating in the sportbike community. If you haven't, might just be your particular group. Steingar is a proud example, and my friend who mentored me in my early days of motorcycling was also a very anti-Harley person. He pretty much stopped speaking to me when I bought one. Since you say that "you Harley guys tick me off," but claim no Harley hating observed sounds like you need some time on a couch to help you discover your feelings. :D

But you are correct that a number of Harley riders don't return "the wave." I've never had a sportbike fail to wave back at me, but I have seen a number who seem surprised that I waved at them in the first place when I'm on my Ultra Classic.



FTFY ;)
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There's no rancour in that. It's just that I've seen a lot of situations where the rider (oblivious) nearly gets slammed in the rear. When I'm on 2's I don't care, I can pass easily.

I've on more than one occasion blocked (on 4's) for an oblivious rider to keep someone from slamming into him.
 
Jay Honeck said:
On my 235, there is no interconnect between the tips and the mains. There are four separate tanks.
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There WILL be an interconnect if the o-ring on your fuel selector wears out and allows fuel from the outer tank to leak into either of the inner tanks. As I stated, that would be a defective state, but as the selector is a bit pricey to overhaul, some sixes and 235s are flown around in that condition.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm not sure how you could call me a Harley guy when I've owned far more sportbikes and we still have one in the garage. ;)

I've found definite Harley hating in the sportbike community. If you haven't, might just be your particular group. Steingar is a proud example, and my friend who mentored me in my early days of motorcycling was also a very anti-Harley person. He pretty much stopped speaking to me when I bought one. Since you say that "you Harley guys tick me off," but claim no Harley hating observed sounds like you need some time on a couch to help you discover your feelings. :D

But you are correct that a number of Harley riders don't return "the wave." I've never had a sportbike fail to wave back at me, but I have seen a number who seem surprised that I waved at them in the first place when I'm on my Ultra Classic.



FTFY ;)
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I grew up near Milwaukee, where Harley is basically a religion.

I've been riding for over 34 years. I've never cared for the cycles Harley produces -- in my opinion, they are underpowered and overpriced. They also traditionally attract a segment of the riding public that seems to enjoy aggravating the hell out of everyone, usually through excessive noise, but often through riding habits as well.

Not that sport bike riders are often any better, but at least they have real performance in their corner. My GSX-650F will blow a Harley with twice the displacement away, while effortlessly and quietly carving the twisties.

YMMV. I wouldn't say I "hate" Harley riders -- most are just fine -- but it does take a certain kind of asshat to install straight pipes on a motorcycle. Especially one so pathetically underpowered.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I grew up near Gecko, where RV is basically a religion.

I've been flying for over 34 years. I've never cared for the planes RV produces -- in my opinion, they are lacking in capability and overpriced. They also traditionally attract a segment of the flying public that seems to enjoy aggravating the hell out of everyone, usually through not making any radio calls, but often through flying habits as well.

Not that twin pilots are often any better, but at least they have real performance and capabilities in their corner. My 310 will fly in weather an RV would cower in its hangar over while effortlessly carving through clouds.

YMMV. I wouldn't say I "hate" RV pilots -- most are just fine -- but it does take a certain kind of asshat to paint your 150 HP plane in "I wanna be a fighter pilot" scheme, then enter the pattern without any radio calls and do an overhead break. Especially in an aircraft that is posing as a fighter.
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Hmm... ;)

FTFY. :D
 
Jaybird180 said:
Sorry for the late post:



Yes, you Harley guys do tick me off. And then some of you are snotty enough to refuse to waive - holier than thou attitude :D

Signed - a sport riding corner carver


Yes, I got the joke - but I haven't found an anti-Harley attitude in the sport community.




93K- Quit cross posting! LoL...there, I said it.
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Ted DuPuis said:
Hmm... ;)

FTFY. :D
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:stirpot:
 
CJones said:
Geez.. Look what you stirred up, David! ;) Maybe next time you should be friendly to the line guys so PoA doesn't implode. :D :D
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I've dealt with line folks a lot - after the third order when I was questioning if the CSR had an extra chromosome is when I got mad.
 
There seems to be some confusion as to how I normally treat line guys - I usually treat them exceedingly well and I was calm the entire time. Until the end, then I just got really frustrated. I had already worked 11 hours that day and just didn't feel like putting up with an incompetent buffoon.
 
DavidWhite said:
Until the end, then I just got really frustrated. I had already worked 11 hours that day and just didn't feel like putting up with an incompetent buffoon.
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Was that the Ramper or the Pilot speaking? :lol:

Cheers
 
I still remember the ramp guy from 14 years ago telling me not to take off in my plane cause the ruddervator cuffs were missing. I just said thanks, and continued on my business. So, he went back to the FBO and as I was taxiing out, the FBO comes on CTAF and asks me about it. I did not reply, who knows - maybe they alerted the FAA to 'help' me do it right.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Good point - I'd forgotten about that since I haven't ridden sportbikes regularly in a while.

But BMW riders won't return "the wave" from Harley riders. ;)
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I rode a 1987 BMW K100RT long enough to put 30,000 miles on it. I always returned the wave, without prejudice.

I find "us vs them" attitudes pretty funny. Once you take a large enough view, it's only "us."
 
koehn said:
I rode a 1987 BMW K100RT long enough to put 30,000 miles on it. I always returned the wave, without prejudice.

I find "us vs them" attitudes pretty funny. Once you take a large enough view, it's only "us."
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I'm the same way on my bike (sportbike)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Now that was funny!

Ahem. One minor nit. Mine has 20% more horsepower than you used in your example... :D
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I'm glad you found as much humor in reading it as I found in writing it. :)

Picky picky. I have 600 HP. :D
 
docmirror said:
I still remember the ramp guy from 14 years ago telling me not to take off in my plane cause the ruddervator cuffs were missing. I just said thanks, and continued on my business. So, he went back to the FBO and as I was taxiing out, the FBO comes on CTAF and asks me about it. I did not reply, who knows - maybe they alerted the FAA to 'help' me do it right.
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I did not find them on Google either.
 
Do unto others before they do unto you. John 7 11
 
John 11:44 ... another (post) raised from the dead
 
Actually, it was just something I read on the wall of the John at the 7-11.
 
I was at San Diego Lindbergh 2 months ago - Landmark is usually pretty good.

I filled out the fuel sheet myself. I said 'Top Inboard / Main tanks - ONLY]

My airplane has two 30 gallon main fuel tanks and two 15 aux tanks. Inside the fuel doors is a red and white placard which specifies 'Main Fuel' or "Aux Fuel' and to augment that I prepared, using a label maker, labels which state - right on the fuel tank caps "MAIN TANKS" and then on the Aux tanks "AUX TANKS - DO NOT FUEL WITHOUT WRITTEN AUTH"

You can guess what happened - I showed up and they topped all four tanks. The manager on duty tried to convince me that my instructions were 'vague,' and it was my fault. So I marched her out to the airplane and asked her to open the fuel doors.

She was pretty haughty about it - did not want to get her hands dirty - so I did it for her. She immediately saw how clear it was . . . . never apologized. I said that I wanted them to defuel. She said she they did not have the equipment for piston.

She really fought me on it. I don't know why - it was clearly their mistake. Then I suggested that perhaps she needs to call the FBO manager and we can chat. She actually, on a sunday morning, called the main FBO manager and gave a decent recitation of facts. She indicated the tanks were marked on the airplane and they misfueled and lacked the ability to defuel a piston. She said - Yes sir about three times and handed me the phone.

The manager could not have been nicer. He apologized, asked if I wanted to fuel removed or if they could simply charge me a discounted rate. I asked him realistically how long it was going to take them to defuel me. Honestly he said he did not know. He would need to call around and find a decent siphon and a large enough tank below the level of the aircraft. He initially offered me 20 cents discount off $8 fuel.

I said that I'm already 30 minutes later than I expected to depart and should be landing at my home airport about now. I said I will reluctantly take the fuel if I can pay for the excess at my home airport rate of $5.99 a gallon. He thought that was a better idea than his wasting his sunday finding away to make defueling work.

Part of my problem was the next flight the next day was to my mechanic for my annual - and I just wanted the mains to have fuel . .. .

Anyway - 45 after I arrived I got to my airplane - and they sold me ALL the fuel for my home airport rate - but - interestingly - would not give me a golf shirt . . .
 
DavidWhite said:
Forgive me PoA I have sinned.

I came into Denver a week ago today and filled out a form asking for a top off and tip tanks (since people forget the Six has them) they said they were topping it off that afternoon and I called this morning again to double check it was ready. "Yes sir it's ready to go" same guy I talked to last Tuesday.

I show up this afternoon after an exceedingly long day (I've been up since 5) and looked in the tanks and they hadn't been touched. I go inside and tell them I was told the airplane was ready to go - and it wasn't ready. I tell them to top it off and the tip tanks, I saw the fuel truck at the airplane and went to pay - 34.5 gallons. Not near enough. I told them I asked for the tip tanks to be topped off - 3 times in the last week. He said it was full and I was mistaken. So, I told him to follow me out to the airplane and we played the game of "find the gasoline" of course, the tips were almost dry as they were when I left them. He said they probably just filtered down to the mains. I asked how that could happen if the mains were full, and got a blank stare. 28 gallons later my tip tanks were full.

Good thing I visually checked the gas :rolleyes:
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Dave, I've met you and visited with you face to face, so it's no surprise to me that you checked the tanks for yourself. Only a fool would assume full tanks without removing the cap and checking for himself. When I met and visited with you, you did not appear to be a fool.

In the book "The Killing Zone," there was a description of a situation where an aircraft was tied down in the evening and a request for filling the tanks was put in. The next morning while walking to the plane, the fuel truck was driving away. When reaching the plane, the fuel caps were seen dangling. The pilot assumed that the fuel boy had just then filled the tanks and left them open so that the pilot could check the level during preflight. A fatal assumption.

As it turned out, the fuel boy DID leave the caps loose so that the pilot could check the level. Problem was, he had refueled the night before, and a hard rain during the night put LOTS of water in the gas that led to a fatal accident.

Checking the tanks yourself after a stranger, or even a fuel boy that you know and trust filled it, is a very wise thing to do for more than one reason IMHO. Checking for water is just as important.

All that said David, I understand your frustration. I'm just a local flyer that put-puts around in my little antique, so I almost always use self serve and prefer it that way for many reasons, not the least of which is that I have more control and confidence in the situation. The times that I have flown in somewhere requiring reliance on the fuel truck, I just about wore out the sump drains, my fuel stick and the caps before getting back in the air.

You're a wise pilot Charlie Brown, er... David White!
 
yassuh, I's jes' a line monkey. I duz what I's tol'. iffin I's tol' ta fly da 188 all day. den dat's what I do. Iffin dey wanna git sum gas in da nice Falcon, den I puts in what dey want. (jet A usually) Iffin da guy wanna top off his one sebendy too, I fill it to da brim wit' 100ll. (lessen he say different) Den I set back an' watch. He pack in fo fat folk, wit' a ton o' bags, den fergit ta lean, an' crash jus' off da runway. Try ta blame it on me. I's jes' da po' line monkey doin' what I's tol'.
But nebbermin' dat, I gotsta go in da Cat, an put sum sho' 'nuff bad stuff on da fields, so's you can go to th' sto, an' git sumpin ta eat what th' bugs ain't dun et up.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Some idiot with a Ninja passed my Harley the other day when I was doing 10 under the limit in the left lane at full throttle. Doesn't he know that he should respect my slow pig of a bike and stay behind it? Jerks.

Happy owner of a 2009 Ultra Classic. :)
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What's so neat about that is the attitude of the crotch rocket riders and their race bikes. Yes they are fast, and yes they are quick. But, can they go the distance? Or better yet; Are they willing to do what it takes to go the distance? I've been in more than a few rallys open to all comers. And while not winning first place, placed "in the money" on more than one occasion. The guys on their Ninjas, and other crotch rockets would come blowing past like I was in reverse. And I was doing 10 over. Neat thing about it was when me and my old rat pan/shovel would pull up to offer assistance. They would allways turn me down, as their "bros" on crotch rockets would be blazing past.
I've ridden in several "iron butt" challenges. My trusty Rat, has never failed to meet the challenge. But I've seen many lesser but quicker/faster bikes siting on the side of the road, melted down.
 
DavidWhite said:
Forgive me PoA I have sinned.
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As a former line guy, I can say you did no such thing. That kid flat out lied to you. Then tried to argue about it. I'm surprised you handled it as well as you did. I love the, "Come out here and show me where the fuel went" :rofl:
 
comanchepilot said:
The manager could not have been nicer. He apologized, asked if I wanted to fuel removed or if they could simply charge me a discounted rate. I asked him realistically how long it was going to take them to defuel me. Honestly he said he did not know. He would need to call around and find a decent siphon and a large enough tank below the level of the aircraft. He initially offered me 20 cents discount off $8 fuel.

I said that I'm already 30 minutes later than I expected to depart and should be landing at my home airport about now. I said I will reluctantly take the fuel if I can pay for the excess at my home airport rate of $5.99 a gallon. He thought that was a better idea than his wasting his sunday finding away to make defueling work.
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The FBO in Pompano beach sold me the overage of fuel at a contract-fuel rate that was well below the retail price for the area. The only downside was that I couldn't take on fuel at my next stop and had to pay a ramp fee.
 
Interesting thread to revive. Granted I was only a line guy for six months I fueled quite a few private planes, business jets, charters and commercial. I can only think of a few that watched me while I fueled and they were all US government aircraft.
 
DavidWhite said:
Forgive me PoA I have sinned.

I came into Denver a week ago today and filled out a form asking for a top off and tip tanks (since people forget the Six has them) they said they were topping it off that afternoon and I called this morning again to double check it was ready. "Yes sir it's ready to go" same guy I talked to last Tuesday.

I show up this afternoon after an exceedingly long day (I've been up since 5) and looked in the tanks and they hadn't been touched. I go inside and tell them I was told the airplane was ready to go - and it wasn't ready. I tell them to top it off and the tip tanks, I saw the fuel truck at the airplane and went to pay - 34.5 gallons. Not near enough. I told them I asked for the tip tanks to be topped off - 3 times in the last week. He said it was full and I was mistaken. So, I told him to follow me out to the airplane and we played the game of "find the gasoline" of course, the tips were almost dry as they were when I left them. He said they probably just filtered down to the mains. I asked how that could happen if the mains were full, and got a blank stare. 28 gallons later my tip tanks were full.

Good thing I visually checked the gas :rolleyes:
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First world problems... :rolleyes:
 
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