I felt so sorry for this student pilot.

RotaryWingBob

RotaryWingBob

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Gone West
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Chester County, PA
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iHover
My wife and I flew the R44 to Lancaster yesterday for lunch (lunch for us, that is, not for the helicopter!). On my initial callup I told the tower that my destination was the grass opposite the west ramp. I reported a 2 nm as instructed and the controller directed me to stay south of the runways and proceed direct to my destination.

He was also talking to a student in another helicopter who wanted the Airways ramp but said he wasn't familiar with the field. The controller instructed him to use a runway, which I guess he did (I was busy finishing my approach and touching down).

I touched down and started my shutdown sequence (it takes 6-7 minutes!), and watch an R22 piloted by the student come down taxiway F towards D very, very slowly. About that time the tower tried to contact him and got no response. He was acting like he didn't have a clue where he was going. He started following D for a hundred feet or so and then came to a hover.

In the meantime, the tower was repeatedly trying to call him, never getting any response. I completed my shutdown and stopped the blades. We secured the ship, and as we were walking to the resaurant, the R22 started creeping down D again towards Airways.

I don't know how this all sorted itself out, but it struck me that either:

a) the student was a total moron who shouldn't be flying, or, more likely

b) the CFI failed to insure that a student on a x-country solo had studied airport diagram so that he would know where he was going and/or if he was still unsure to ask for a progressive taxi.

My money is on b.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
My wife and I flew the R44 to Lancaster yesterday for lunch (lunch for us, that is, not for the helicopter!). On my initial callup I told the tower that my destination was the grass opposite the west ramp. I reported a 2 nm as instructed and the controller directed me to stay south of the runways and proceed direct to my destination.

He was also talking to a student in another helicopter who wanted the Airways ramp but said he wasn't familiar with the field. The controller instructed him to use a runway, which I guess he did (I was busy finishing my approach and touching down).

I touched down and started my shutdown sequence (it takes 6-7 minutes!), and watch an R22 piloted by the student come down taxiway F towards D very, very slowly. About that time the tower tried to contact him and got no response. He was acting like he didn't have a clue where he was going. He started following D for a hundred feet or so and then came to a hover.

In the meantime, the tower was repeatedly trying to call him, never getting any response. I completed my shutdown and stopped the blades. We secured the ship, and as we were walking to the resaurant, the R22 started creeping down D again towards Airways.

I don't know how this all sorted itself out, but it struck me that either:

a) the student was a total moron who shouldn't be flying, or, more likely

b) the CFI failed to insure that a student on a x-country solo had studied airport diagram so that he would know where he was going and/or if he was still unsure to ask for a progressive taxi.

My money is on b.
Click to expand...

I've never been on a helicopter before, but is it correct to assume that hovering over a taxiway is a two-handed, two-footed job, which would have prevented him from using a free hand to pull out a taxiway diagram or open up the AF/D?
 
nddons said:
I've never been on a helicopter before, but is it correct to assume that hovering over a taxiway is a two-handed, two-footed job, which would have prevented him from using a free hand to pull out a taxiway diagram or open up the AF/D?
Click to expand...

That's pretty much true. Plus, even if you had a 3rd hand, you (or at least I) can't hold a steady hover without looking out the window. If it were me and I really needed to look at something, I'd ask the controller to let me set the ship down for a minute, or even better, ask if I can leave the taxiway and set down in the grass for a minute.
 
Bob I have a helecopter question that's been bugging me for a couple of weeks. My home field is uncontrolled. We get a lot of student activity because we're only a few miles from a busy airport that has several flight schools, including a helecopter school. Occasionally (twice in the last two weeks that I have been present) there is a helecopter flying a pattern that is opposite of all the other traffic in the pattern. I was told by the FBO that this is customary for helecopter traffic. I find this to be dangerous in a busy pattern but since I didn't know if this is correct I didn't want to say anything. Is this right?
 
Nothing specific to helecopters. Ultralights use a slightly modified pattern but no mention of right hand traffic for anyone.

The airport is VPC BTW.
 
the AIM specifies that helo's should fly a pattern as to not conflict with other powered aircraft.
 
Funny, I've seen that before myself, at several airfields. Maybe they do it so as not to mix up with the regular wing folk. It always spooks me.
 
Here are the relevant FARs:
§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and
(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.
Click to expand...
§ 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.

(f) Approaches. Except when conducting a circling approach under part 97 of this chapter or unless otherwise required by ATC, each pilot must—
(1) Circle the airport to the left, if operating an airplane; or
(2) Avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft, if operating a helicopter.
Click to expand...
 
oh apparently its not in the AIM, its in the FARs! thanks grant!
 
Richard, it takes a careful reading of the FARs to get the difference. In some places, they use the term "aircraft" and it applies to both fixed- and rotory-wing aircraft. Other places use the term "airplane" in which case it doesn't apply to rotorcraft:

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.


In other words, 91.126 (b)(1) governs airplanes (ie. airplanes have to make turns in the direction the A/FD says).

91.126 (b)(2) applies to helicopters and doesn't say anything about direction of turns, so we don't have to comply with the A/FD, but basically we have to avoid impeding fixed-wing traffic.

So if things are busy, we'll fly opposite traffic because we usually fly our downwind slower than most airplanes -- I want to be at 65-70 KIAS by the time I'm midfield.

Here's an important caution, though. There's noting that says we have to fly any kind of traffic pattern. Because helicopters have some x-wind issues, especially from the left (in U.S. made ships), we sometimes will take off or land directly into the wind.

At my home field the only runway is 9-27. If there is a strong north wind, I may elect to depart from the midfield on the taxiway, across the runway, climbing out to the north. I may elect to land south to north, probably to the taxiway, not the runway. All of this is legal, and I always self-announce what I'm doing.

One last issue. I don't know how many times I've set up for a runway landing (intending to come to hover at an intersection) and had an airplane pull out in front of me when I'm on a short final, in spite of my self-announcing. The reason? Fixed-wingers expect all aircraft to come in on the glideslope and that's where they look for traffic. The trouble is that even if I make a very short landing, let's say for the fun of it, coming to a hover on the numbers, I going to well above the glideslope. If I'm landing midfield, I might be at 150-200' when I cross the threshhold. The moral is, if you hear a helicopter announce a base to final turn, you need to look up much higher than the glideslope. If I'm doing a practice autorotation I might even be at 300-500' when I close the threshhold!

Hope this lengthy answer sheds some light on how we operate.
 
gprellwitz said:
Here are the relevant FARs:
Click to expand...

One note about towered fields. Even at class B primary airports, I don't think I've ever been asked to fly any kind of pattern. On my initiall callup I give my destination on the field. Typically the clearance will be something like: Helicopter 12345 proceed directly to the xyz ramp (or whatever). Very rarely I've been asked to proceed to an intersection of some kind.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Richard, it takes a careful reading of the FARs to get the difference. In some places, they use the term "aircraft" and it applies to both fixed- and rotory-wing aircraft. Other places use the term "airplane" in which case it doesn't apply to rotorcraft:

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.


In other words, 91.126 (b)(1) governs airplanes (ie. airplanes have to make turns in the direction the A/FD says).

91.126 (b)(2) applies to helicopters and doesn't say anything about direction of turns, so we don't have to comply with the A/FD, but basically we have to avoid impeding fixed-wing traffic.

So if things are busy, we'll fly opposite traffic because we usually fly our downwind slower than most airplanes -- I want to be at 65-70 KIAS by the time I'm midfield.

Here's an important caution, though. There's noting that says we have to fly any kind of traffic pattern. Because helicopters have some x-wind issues, especially from the left (in U.S. made ships), we sometimes will take off or land directly into the wind.

At my home field the only runway is 9-27. If there is a strong north wind, I may elect to depart from the midfield on the taxiway, across the runway, climbing out to the north. I may elect to land south to north, probably to the taxiway, not the runway. All of this is legal, and I always self-announce what I'm doing.

One last issue. I don't know how many times I've set up for a runway landing (intending to come to hover at an intersection) and had an airplane pull out in front of me when I'm on a short final, in spite of my self-announcing. The reason? Fixed-wingers expect all aircraft to come in on the glideslope and that's where they look for traffic. The trouble is that even if I make a very short landing, let's say for the fun of it, coming to a hover on the numbers, I going to well above the glideslope. If I'm landing midfield, I might be at 150-200' when I cross the threshhold. The moral is, if you hear a helicopter announce a base to final turn, you need to look up much higher than the glideslope. If I'm doing a practice autorotation I might even be at 300-500' when I close the threshhold!

Hope this lengthy answer sheds some light on how we operate.
Click to expand...
I have learned more about how helos operate here on PoA from any other reference. Bob, really thanks for being here and posting stuff like this. Mose CFIs may not understand how to coexist with helos either, that just leads to hurt feelings between the fixed and rotor guys. Now when I hear a helo on the CTAF I have a much better idea of what he is doing and why he is doing it.
 
smigaldi said:
I have learned more about how helos operate here on PoA from any other reference. Bob, really thanks for being here and posting stuff like this. Mose CFIs may not understand how to coexist with helos either, that just leads to hurt feelings between the fixed and rotor guys. Now when I hear a helo on the CTAF I have a much better idea of what he is doing and why he is doing it.
Click to expand...

agreed. bob, thanks!
 
smigaldi said:
I have learned more about how helos operate here on PoA from any other reference. Bob, really thanks for being here and posting stuff like this. Mose CFIs may not understand how to coexist with helos either, that just leads to hurt feelings between the fixed and rotor guys. Now when I hear a helo on the CTAF I have a much better idea of what he is doing and why he is doing it.
Click to expand...

My pleasure, Scott and Tony. When I was a fixed-wing student there was a helicopter flight school on the field, and I don't any of the instructors at my school had a clue about helo ops. It wasn't until I started my transition away from the dark side ( couldn't resist :D ) that I began to understand what it was these guys were doing.

I know that to a fixed-winger some of our maneuvers seem unpredicable and maybe downright whacko. But it's all logical to another flingwinger :yes:

I think I might create a page on my web site -- sort of like helicopter 101 for fixed-wing pilots, attempting to explain what our maneuvers are all about in the hope that we become more predictable to other. I'll post a link if I do it.
 
Now if the helo and tower folks at OLM would just clue us fix wingers into what they mean when they start talking "areas" that don't show up on any of my charts. It would help in knowing where to look for them.

But, seriously, Bob you've provided me more insight into helo operations than I've received anywhere, as well. Thanks.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
I think I might create a page on my web site -- sort of like helicopter 101 for fixed-wing pilots, attempting to explain what our maneuvers are all about in the hope that we become more predictable to other. I'll post a link if I do it.
Click to expand...

Bob,

That would be GREAT!!! :yes: Thanks for all of the knowledge you've provided here. I'm with Scott, I've learned way more about whoppity-flopters here than anywhere else. (FAA, take note...)
 
RotaryWingBob said:
... SNIP ...
I know that to a fixed-winger some of our maneuvers seem unpredicable and maybe downright whacko. But it's all logical to another flingwinger :yes:
... SNIP ...
Click to expand...
It's not just helo pilots tricks that seem downright whacko (Waco?). There's fixed wing people who haven't got it all right yet!?!?!

Thanks Bob. Like previously said, I have a greater appreciation for flying based on what I've learned here. I just wish it weren't so expensive to take helicopter lessons. Of course, right now I probably couldn't afford FREE!
 
RotaryWingBob said:
One last issue. I don't know how many times I've set up for a runway landing (intending to come to hover at an intersection) and had an airplane pull out in front of me when I'm on a short final, in spite of my self-announcing. The reason? Fixed-wingers expect all aircraft to come in on the glideslope and that's where they look for traffic.
Click to expand...

A lot of folks just don't seem to look for announced traffic, regardless of wing type. :dunno:
 
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