I did not know this....

OtisAir

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OtisAir
I was reading an article online about the Gettysburg Airport, and within the airticle it stated, "in Pennsylvania state law prohibits unattended fuel pumps that in some other states allow pilots to use credit cards to activate the pumps with no airport or other employees present". I hadn't needed a PA SS Fuel stop but was surprised to learn that I wouldn't find one if I did...

The article is here if you're interested in the Gettysburg Airport.
 
I was reading an article online about the Gettysburg Airport, and within the airticle it stated, "in Pennsylvania state law prohibits unattended fuel pumps that in some other states allow pilots to use credit cards to activate the pumps with no airport or other employees present". I hadn't needed a PA SS Fuel stop but was surprised to learn that I wouldn't find one if I did...

The article is here if you're interested in the Gettysburg Airport.

Hunh?

I've refueled at FWQ countless times (well, I can count, but don't want to...) and it's a self-serve pump.

York is self-serve. So is Clarion. So is Grove City....
 
But isn't everything that the media writes true? :eek:
 
Don't know about the law, but it's always good news when a ga airport expands and increases ops, instead of going in the tank and closing. :smile:
 
"in Pennsylvania state law prohibits unattended fuel pumps that in some other states allow pilots to use credit cards to activate the pumps with no airport or other employees present".

The gas pump "law" is a new one to me. There are certainly many self service gas pumps about.

Good that Gettysburg is getting some new life.

Gary
 
My daughter almost ran out of gas the first time she drove in NJ.

She said she would pull up to a pump, and some "Scruffy looking guy would walk up to my car!"

So she drove away.

Every gas station had some "scruffy looking guy" approaching her car.

She called me: "Where is it safe to get gas in New Jersey!?!"

I had to explain New Jersey's Byzantine gas pump law....
 
I've never landed at Gettysburg, flown over it many times though. I'm gonna add that to my list of places to land.
 
My daughter almost ran out of gas the first time she drove in NJ.

She said she would pull up to a pump, and some "Scruffy looking guy would walk up to my car!"

So she drove away.

Every gas station had some "scruffy looking guy" approaching her car.

She called me: "Where is it safe to get gas in New Jersey!?!"

I had to explain New Jersey's Byzantine gas pump law....

Used to be the same in Oregon--couldn't pump your own fuel. Is it still that way?
 
1) Wow I'm glad the Gettysburg is getting some new life. That is much needed there.

2) That gas pump law is a new one on me. Don't think its accurate at all.
 
I got in trouble in NJ once. I got out and pumped my own gas and told some dude to **** off when he tried to stop me.

Turns out it was the law. Oops.
 
Used to be the same in Oregon--couldn't pump your own fuel. Is it still that way?

Yes. Apparently the State of Oregon feels the state's drivers are not smart enough to safely pump their own gas. Fortunately, the legislators understand that pilots, because of their above average intelligence, can safely fuel an airplane.
 
A few years back I drove to Portland Oregon to Pacific Coast Avionics to buy the stuff for my panel in my toy... I pulled up into a gas station, got out and started to fill my tank. About that time some guy comes running out, screaming.. "STOP, I will loose my license". God as my witness I didn't know you could not fill your own vehicle with fuel.. Boy, did I feel dumb, but not as dumb as that law. !!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::yikes:

Ben
N801BH



Used to be the same in Oregon--couldn't pump your own fuel. Is it still that way?
 
Used to be the same in Oregon--couldn't pump your own fuel. Is it still that way?

I was heli-cedar logging full time running my Stihl 090 and had a grip like, well, somebody running a Stihl 090 full time, when the Oregon gas station guy came running out and unsuccessfully tried to peel my thumb back off the gas pump nozzel with both hands and couldn't. Then he asked me nice & I stopped. Fun times.
 
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My daughter almost ran out of gas the first time she drove in NJ.

She said she would pull up to a pump, and some "Scruffy looking guy would walk up to my car!"

So she drove away.

Every gas station had some "scruffy looking guy" approaching her car.

She called me: "Where is it safe to get gas in New Jersey!?!"

I had to explain New Jersey's Byzantine gas pump law....

Oregon is the same way. Only two states where I'm too dumb to pump my own gas.
 
1) Wow I'm glad the Gettysburg is getting some new life. That is much needed there.
Is it suffering as a result of the expanded P-40 post 9/11 stuff or other reasons?

I keep wanting to fly there for a long weekend but have been hesitant due to quickly changing airspace issues.
 
Ive always liked Gettysburg. The best way to see the battlefield and town is to bring bikes in the plane.
 
Pump "service" is still mandatory in NJ (I say it in quotes because it's usually more of a hindrance than a service, especially when there are several cars waiting for gas and only one tired, unmotivated, and probably not-so-bright attendant)... but at many NJ airports, there are self-service pumps.
 
Just another great reason not to visit NJ..:nono::nonod:.. I guess my real question is.... Why the law? Anyone know?

Pump "service" is still mandatory in NJ (I say it in quotes because it's usually more of a hindrance than a service, especially when there are several cars waiting for gas and only one tired, unmotivated, and probably not-so-bright attendant)... but at many NJ airports, there are self-service pumps.
 
Just another great reason not to visit NJ..:nono::nonod:.. I guess my real question is.... Why the law? Anyone know?


X2. No reason to go there.

NJ thinks its too dangerous for citizens to pump their own gas. Oh, the horror!

:frown2:
 
And yet NJ gas is still cheaper than a lot of other places (especially NY).

There are times when it's nice to have your gas pumped (without a ridiculous extra per-gallon like you'd get for "full" service in self-serve states), like when it's freezing and you don't want to get out of the car. And in NY, not sure if it's the law or what, but none of the nozzles let you "set it and forget it", making you hold the handle in the whole time you're pumping. I assume this is to keep people from going back into their cars (and possibly creating static charges that could ignite the gas vapors) but really it's just annoying. Want to clean off your windshield while it pumps? Can't. Want to walk around so you don't feel quite as cold? Can't.
 
There are times when it's nice to have your gas pumped (without a ridiculous extra per-gallon like you'd get for "full" service in self-serve states), like when it's freezing and you don't want to get out of the car. And in NY, not sure if it's the law or what, but none of the nozzles let you "set it and forget it", making you hold the handle in the whole time you're pumping. I assume this is to keep people from going back into their cars (and possibly creating static charges that could ignite the gas vapors) but really it's just annoying. Want to clean off your windshield while it pumps? Can't. Want to walk around so you don't feel quite as cold? Can't.

Gas is cheaper in NJ because fuel tax is lower than the extortion-state.

New York City area stations don't let you use the hold-opens to prevent (or at least dissuade) drive-offs.

I've pumped gas in Upstate NY and used the hold-open feature many times.
 
Mostly the Oregon 1951 law had to do with "safety" of the public (retail public, that is; non-retail customers can pump their own fuel) in handling Class 1 Flammables--remember that the next time you find yourself "under greater economic pressure to subject themselves to the inconvenience and hazards of self-service."

Here are the actual laws as they stand today, if anybody wants to delve into it:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/480.310.html

Aviation fuels are explictly exempted from the self-service ban:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/480.330.html

Peggy, do you have a reference to that logging thing? I found the Oregon statutes from 1951 that address this, as quoted in a lawsuit that challenged the constitutionality of the law:

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/A96490.htm said:
Plaintiffs argue that the only purpose for ORS 480.310 to 480.385 is for the safety of consumers. The state responds:

"One has only to read ORS 480.315, however, to discern that safety is not the only objective the legislative [sic] declared it was seeking to advance by enacting a general prohibition balanced by certain enumerated exceptions. The legislature's detailed declaration of the public policies sought to be served, including economic considerations, is critical in resolving this case."

ORS 480.315 provides:

"The Legislative Assembly declares that, except as provided in ORS 480.345 to 480.385, it is in the public interest to maintain a prohibition on the self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids at retail. The Legislative Assembly finds and declares that:

"(1) The dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by dispensers properly trained in appropriate safety procedures reduces fire hazards directly associated with the dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids;

"(2) Appropriate safety standards often are unenforceable at retail self-service stations in other states because cashiers are often unable to maintain a clear view of and give undivided attention to the dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by customers;

"(3) Higher liability insurance rates charged to retail self-service stations reflect the dangers posed to customers when they leave their vehicles to dispense Class 1 flammable liquids, such as the increased risk of crime and the increased risk of personal injury resulting from slipping on slick surfaces;

"(4) The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon's weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility;

"(5) The dangers described in subsection (3) of this section are heightened when the customer is a senior citizen or is disabled, especially if the customer uses a mobility aid, such as a wheelchair, walker, cane or crutches;

"(6) Attempts by other states to require the providing of aid to senior citizens and the disabled in the self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids at retail have failed, and therefore, senior citizens and the disabled must pay the higher costs of full service;

"(7) Exposure to toxic fumes represents a health hazard to customers dispensing Class 1 flammable liquids;

"(8) The hazard described in subsection (7) of this section is heightened when the customer is pregnant;

"(9) The exposure to Class 1 flammable liquids through dispensing should, in general, be limited to as few individuals as possible, such as gasoline station owners and their employees or other trained and certified dispensers;

"(10) The significantly higher prices typically charged for full-service fuel dispensing in states where self-service is permitted at retail:

"(a) Discriminate against customers with lower incomes, who are under greater economic pressure to subject themselves to the inconvenience and hazards of self-service;

"(b) Discriminate against customers who are elderly or handicapped who are unable to serve themselves and so must pay the significantly higher prices; and

"(c) Increases self-service dispensing and thereby decreases maintenance checks by attendants, which results in neglect of maintenance, which endangers both the customer and other motorists and results in unnecessary and costly repairs;

"(11) The increased use of self-service at retail in other states has contributed to diminishing the availability of automotive repair facilities at gasoline stations;

"(12) Self-service dispensing at retail in other states does not provide a sustained reduction in fuel prices charged to customers;

"(13) A general prohibition of self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by the general public promotes public welfare by providing increased safety and convenience without causing economic harm to the public in general;

"(14) Self-service dispensing at retail contributes to unemployment, particularly among young people;

"(15) Self-service dispensing at retail presents a health hazard and unreasonable discomfort to the handicapped, to elderly persons, small children and those susceptible to respiratory diseases;

"(16) The federal Americans with Disabilities Act, Public Law 101-336, requires that equal access be provided to disabled persons at retail gasoline stations; and

"(17) Small children left unattended when customers leave to make payment at retail self-service stations creates a dangerous situation."

In light of ORS 480.315 and our holding in Atlantic Richfield Co., plaintiffs concede that the legislature rationally could be concerned about the safety of those who dispense gasoline. However, they argue that none of the statutory exceptions to the general prohibition against self-service gasoline are consistent with the concern about consumer safety except for ORS 480.345(5). That statute provides for the dispensing of gasoline by nonretail customers who have satisfied safety training requirements in compliance with rules of the State Fire Marshal. The result of plaintiffs' argument, if adopted, is that all other statutory exceptions would be declared void; while, the retention of the safety-training provision would mean that self-service would remain generally prohibited except for those who participated in safety training.(2)
 
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And yet NJ gas is still cheaper than a lot of other places (especially NY).

And NJ is happy to let truckers pump hundreds of gallons of their own fuel...

Worse than the required-full-serve is the Massachusetts anti-fire contraptions.
 
And NJ is happy to let truckers pump hundreds of gallons of their own fuel...
Spoken like an oil burner driver.

Since getting my new car, a VW Jetta Diesel I have been learning all about FUEL. The 2009's have to use ULSD that is b5 or less. In Illinois that can be hard as there is a pretty strong bio-diesel lobby here and bio is not taxed. So many stations run b5 to b20 and do not mark their pumps as such. A typical conversation goes like this when going to a new station.

icon1.gif

The pumps are sometimes labeled LSD instead of ULSD and could indicate that the swtich to ULSD has not occured or just that the labeling is wrong, there also may or may not be a bio sticker. If one goes in and asks the attendant this is what it is like:


Me: Your diesel pump says it contains LSD and not ULSD is that correct?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: So the pump is mislabeled as LSD, but is in fact ULSD?
Him: No, the label says LSD.
Me: Right, the label says LSD, is that what’s in the tank?
Him: Yes, ULSD.
Me: What type of fuel does that pump dispense?
Him: gas….
SIGH!
 
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